Check your brake lines

JBurg · 10-14-2015, 09:39 AM

When our trailer was delivered we discovered that the brakes didn't work. Turns out a brake line had been disconnected, which I'm starting to think actually means severed. After we discovered the line being the issue, the "mechanic" replaced the line that morning. When I asked him how difficult it was to bleed he brakes, he said they were "self bleeding" and they didn't need bled. I was able to rationalize in my head how such a system would work and figured I could see it being installed on our ~$6,000 suspension upgrade, and didn't call him out. The trailer brakes were stopping us so we figured all was well.

Today my wife and I repacked all the bearings due to the white Kodiak dust caps that needed to be replaced with clears (noticed that the grease had been contaminated from the caps breaking) and while doing so I noticed the brake calipers were regular ol calipers. No return lines hooked to independent proportional valves that would be indicative of a self-bleeding system, if there is such a thing. So, we then bled the brakes. (Interesting that the rotors on the side that had the issue were noticeably more rust compared to the other side. Weird.) In the process of doing so, I noticed the brake line on the rear off-door side was installed in such a manner that it was rubbing against one of the supports for the suspension, and is almost to the point that the line will break. Sure glad I noticed that! The only brake line that is run in an intelligent manner to where there isn't any contact occurring is the front door-side corner.

I'm going to see if DRV will be willing to help us out with replacing these lines with some steel braided lines. If they won't, I'll just make my own, as from what I'm told brakes are kind of important on these behemoths of trailers.

Thought I would share in the event that this isn't a one-off issue.

Also, like Cummins12v98 pointed out in another thread, none of the caliper bolts were adequately lubricated. That's now also taken care of.

JBurg · 10-14-2015, 12:56 PM

DRV got back to me first thing this morning, and offered to reimburse me for all that we have done so far. Impressive. Now if only I knew where I put the receipts...

Mark at DRV is also under the impression that there might be a brake line relocation kit for our unit. He asked for our address to send the kit out when he finds something.

On a side note-
As we all know, RV's will have issues no matter how much you spend, and right now I'm definitely seeing the benefits of spending that little extra. Part of what led us to purchase a DRV after many months of research-customer service after the sale. Right now they have backed up what many others have said and I'm quite pleased with the service.

JBurg · 10-14-2015, 03:16 PM

I just received an email stating that a kit is being shipped. I didn't ask what this kit entails, so I'll be sure to provide an update when it arrives. Currently, the time is 9:15 mountain. I sent the email to Mark at DRV last night around nine pm. Pretty cool.

Maverick · 10-14-2015, 05:19 PM

I wonder If they are addressing this issue on all the new DRV's being made?

JBurg · 10-14-2015, 06:19 PM

That I'm not certain of. One would assume that they are based on the fact that they readily had a "kit" available... But that's just an assumption. And I trust we all know about assumptions.

Cummins12V98 · 10-14-2015, 11:41 PM

When bleeding the brakes did you notice any bubbles coming out?

JBurg · 10-15-2015, 11:06 AM

Sorry about that! Kinda missed some critical info there.

On the side that had the original issue there was air. On the opposite side there wasn't much air, but I did get some kind of sludge out of both lines that I did not put back into the reservoir and just threw away. It will be interesting to see the difference in performance now with the brakes all bled, as before I was annoyed at the delay before the brakes would apply. I figured it was just the time it took the pump to pressurize the system, even though the volume being pressurized was very small.

It won't be until November that I tow again, so perhaps until then you guys could satisfy my curiosity-is there any noticeable delay from your brakes?

Cummins12V98 · 10-15-2015, 10:25 PM

Yes air in lines will make a huge difference! I am hoping mine do have air because the brakes don't work as well as my last MS with disks. I will be bleeding this weekend.

I am curious you made a statement about not putting back any fluid that had sludge in it back in reservoir. Did you put any of the fluid back in? If so that's not a good idea.

JBurg · 10-16-2015, 01:19 PM

Agreed. A compressible medium, such as air, will negatively affect the performance of a system relying on hydraulic pressure for the purpose of achieving a task.

As for the brake fluid, I bought a fresh bottle of the stuff to replenish the reservoir as it was emptied, knowing I would probably end up throwing some out. The kit that I bought pushed the brake fluid into a sealed container, and if that looked okay I did reuse it. Do you think I may have contaminated the brake fluid?

Cummins12V98 · 10-16-2015, 07:39 PM

If it were me I would flush again.

JBurg · 10-18-2015, 02:06 PM

I'm not certain what the brake line relocation kit consists of, but I'm willing to bet I'm going to need a tubing wrench and some lines will need disconnected, at which point I could replenish the system with fresh fluid. It's not like the stuff is expensive.

After your comments I started looking into how I screwed up, and Internet searches seem to yield a variety of results on the subject of reusing brake fluid; so in the name of trying to glean as much information as possible, what are your thoughts on the topic 12V?

Cummins12V98 · 10-18-2015, 02:40 PM

The whole idea of doing a flush is for one to get rid of any air in the system, remove fluid it only lasts so long, also to remove any particles in the system that could cause wear.

If you are changing out lines yes for sure you will be doing a complete flush to get rid of that air.

Please post a pic of the kit and pics of it installed.

I was concerned with the pressure on the brake lines when I was sent this pic of our rig on the assembly line with the bend in the brake hose. RollingRetreats did a little adjusting and placed the split loom over the brake line.

JBurg · 10-18-2015, 03:37 PM

It's a dual purpose line! Works to limit suspension travel! Clever... (Sarcasm)

How in the world would anybody in their right mind, on ANY mode of transportation, not just our ridiculously expensive fivers, think that what is shown above would be acceptable? Hell, it states very clearly in the assembly portion of the owners manual for a mountain bike that sufficient line must be used to accommodate for suspension travel and to turn the handlebars. Your image blows me away. Sheesh!

rynosback · 10-20-2015, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBurg

When our trailer was delivered we discovered that the brakes didn't work. Turns out a brake line had been disconnected, which I'm starting to think actually means severed. After we discovered the line being the issue, the "mechanic" replaced the line that morning. When I asked him how difficult it was to bleed he brakes, he said they were "self bleeding" and they didn't need bled. I was able to rationalize in my head how such a system would work and figured I could see it being installed on our ~$6,000 suspension upgrade, and didn't call him out. The trailer brakes were stopping us so we figured all was well.

Today my wife and I repacked all the bearings due to the white Kodiak dust caps that needed to be replaced with clears (noticed that the grease had been contaminated from the caps breaking) and while doing so I noticed the brake calipers were regular ol calipers. No return lines hooked to independent proportional valves that would be indicative of a self-bleeding system, if there is such a thing. So, we then bled the brakes. (Interesting that the rotors on the side that had the issue were noticeably more rust compared to the other side. Weird.) In the process of doing so, I noticed the brake line on the rear off-door side was installed in such a manner that it was rubbing against one of the supports for the suspension, and is almost to the point that the line will break. Sure glad I noticed that! The only brake line that is run in an intelligent manner to where there isn't any contact occurring is the front door-side corner.

I'm going to see if DRV will be willing to help us out with replacing these lines with some steel braided lines. If they won't, I'll just make my own, as from what I'm told brakes are kind of important on these behemoths of trailers.

Thought I would share in the event that this isn't a one-off issue.

Also, like Cummins12v98 pointed out in another thread, none of the caliper bolts were adequately lubricated. That's now also taken care of.

SS brake lines should not be needed at all. The rubber lines have plenty of stopping power. I put SS brake lines on my motorcycle for crisper braking. But I also rode it HARD in the twisty mountains.
I hope that you get this all resolved. It sounds like DRV is doing the right thing.

JBurg · 10-20-2015, 11:55 AM

I had an 03 R1 that I put Kevlar brake lines on for the same reason.

Initially I was thinking braided lines for the protective aspect, but if the relocation kit works there should be no possibility of rubbing and the rubber lines will be fine, like you said. As soon as the kit shows up I'll give an update.

JBurg · 10-20-2015, 11:54 PM

The relocation kit showed up today! Awesome service by DRV. It came with four hard lines, four soft lines, three tees, four mounting brackets, and various hangers. No instructions, but those probably aren't needed as it seems pretty straightforward (besides one of the hard lines being significantly longer than the other three.)

JBurg · 10-25-2015, 04:17 AM

And we're done installing the "relocation kit." I use quotations as I'm pretty sure the kit is exactly the same as what was initially used in the manufacturing of the unit. But, since it did come with the same fittings and tees, my friend and I were able to do a pretty decent job taking the install from something that was hastily thrown together and sent down the line to a job that has the appearance of being done properly.

A few things of note-the rubber lines that are used do not swivel on either end, and they tie directly into the tee with a female fitting. This may have been a big part of the reason the original install was done so poorly. With the fitting provided it was difficult to get the tee in the correct orientation for the hard lines to tie into, and going to all the parts stores in town proved to be a useless endeavor. The only fitting that we were able to find was a female-female fitting that was used as a tubing stretcher. Definitely could have used a couple male-male fittings and 90's to get the tees in better position, but we were still able to make do.

We started the project around 14:30 and finished at about 21:00. This includes a few trips into town for parts, food, and beer.

In the process of straightening (as best we could with a purpose-sourced 2X3) the provided tubing, it became clear that the lines were much longer than needed, which explains why they are routed in such a strange manner on the side of the frame. So, one of the first things we did was in addition to the 3/16" tubing bender, we also had to get a tubing cutter and a flaring tool. (I couldn't stand the thought of being happy with bending the tubing all over the place to make it fit as was done originally. Had to do my best to make it look acceptable)

So, the tools that were used besides what is needed for removing the wheels:
3/8" tubing wrench for the tubing fittings
5/8" open end wrench for rubber lines that tie into the tee
Needle nose pliers to remove the clip holding the rubber lines onto the bracket
3/8 socket on impact driver for all the self-tapping screws used along the frame
Vise-grips to hold tee for tightening lines
3/16 tubing bender
3/16 flaring tool
8mm wrench for bleeding brakes.

Pictures to follow.

JBurg · 10-25-2015, 04:29 AM

Original routing. Notice the rubber brake line pulled right against a sharp corner when the suspension is at full travel.

JBurg · 10-25-2015, 04:33 AM

Finished product. No leaks from our custom flaring either!

JBurg · 10-25-2015, 04:42 AM

Door side. They now look like the other side. (I didn't bother taking a picture. It was getting late.) Not sure why I can only post one picture at a time right now...

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