Level Up Problems: UPDATE

[retispcsi]

Does Lippert allow you to in you unit overnight as Mor Ryde does or do you need to find lodging?

[Cummins12V98]

Originally Posted by frscherock@gmail.com

Learned something yesterday. New or old style, best to exercise jacks in and out every 4 to six weeks to keep seals lubricated. Not a problem if traveling but at a destination sight it might be. This is from Lippert.

FS

Best thing is to wipe down the exposed rams with silicone spray before retracting and every few weeks if staying long term.

[dapperdan]

Originally Posted by retispcsi

Does Lippert allow you to in you unit overnight as Mor Ryde does or do you need to find lodging?

No, they will not allow it period, I asked. Good news is you may not need to stay over night in a hotel. We dropped our trailer off at 7:00 am and by 2:00 pm they had it pretty much wrapped up.

I believe their normal work hours are 7:00 am to 3:30 pm.

Cummins has a great idea, I was told by Lippert to give those rams a "squirt" of silicon spray every so often to keep operation "smooth".

Dan

[Travelin' Texans]

Originally Posted by dapperdan

No, they will not allow it period, I asked. Good news is you may not need to stay over night in a hotel. We dropped our trailer off at 7:00 am and by 2:00 pm they had it pretty much wrapped up.

I believe their normal work hours are 7:00 am to 3:30 pm.

Cummins has a great idea, I was told by Lippert to give those rams a "squirt" of silicon spray every so often to keep operation "smooth".

Dan

That was recommended by the service center techs, wipe/spray each use or weekly if parked for extended periods.

[retispcsi]

That is true I have been doing that from day one. I lube them with silicone about once a month. If you stay close to either coast (salt water) I was told to do them more often. The salt spray can pit the rams.

[Fulltimer50]

Perhaps a contributing factor with the fronts failing: not being able to lube them when covered with the casing?

[dapperdan]

Originally Posted by Fulltimer50

Perhaps a contributing factor with the fronts failing: not being able to lube them when covered with the casing?

I actually asked that very question to my tech when we were at Lippert, he had no comment, I asked what the deal was with the (all) failures and the guy just shrugged his shoulders. My guess is they aren't going to admit to anything. That's fine by me, they replaced my front jacks free of charge and now life is good.

Dan

[Bobi, Dick and Ruby McKee]

Actually if you think about it, if your seals are working correctly, the stop the "lube" from getting past them to lube anything. When the ram in retracted the ram is sitting in oil. I do spray my rams, but only to assure they don't pit from weather or to remove calcium buildup after a rain or wash. The covered rams are actually protected from the elements.

I must add I do feel sorry for those having trouble, it makes fun vacation a PITA. Since we purchased our Mobile Suite and after reading about some folks troubles I started noticing how many rigs have covered front rams. There are a ton of them out there on many other manufacturers too. Don't what to make of it just an observation.

[Big Willy]

Originally Posted by Fulltimer50

Perhaps a contributing factor with the fronts failing: not being able to lube them when covered with the casing?

Wouldn't this just affect the cylinder seal (not the piston seal)? Failure of the cylinder seal would lead to leakage from the cylinder itself I think. Most reported problems seem to be due to piston seals not sealing.

[classichammond]

It appears my timing was bad. Had Roberts re-machine mine May11th after both DRV and Lippert basically told me to pound sand. My jacks would drift down in 10 or 15 miles. Roberts had a gallon bag full of seals.....they look like large rubber bands. There were a lot of bad seals in there! I have 2014 Dallas. Pretty much love the coach but was rather disappointed after my phone call last March. One of my rams were not welded straight and had a worn spot on it. I intend to send copies of the bill to DRV and Lippert. But I suspect little response. I will let you know.
Tom

[NC Hauler]

Originally Posted by Bobi, Dick and Ruby McKee

Actually if you think about it, if your seals are working correctly, the stop the "lube" from getting past them to lube anything. When the ram in retracted the ram is sitting in oil. I do spray my rams, but only to assure they don't pit from weather or to remove calcium buildup after a rain or wash. The covered rams are actually protected from the elements.

I must add I do feel sorry for those having trouble, it makes fun vacation a PITA. Since we purchased our Mobile Suite and after reading about some folks troubles I started noticing how many rigs have covered front rams. There are a ton of them out there on many other manufacturers too. Don't what to make of it just an observation.

The sleeves around the front jacks would only protect the outside of the cylinder... and in reality, that ram is the same diameter as the rear Rams... I know because I saw what was pulled off mine... not impressed at all for so much weight on them. The seal that leaks is INSIDE THE CYLINDER... a high pressure seal. Years ago I built and repaired hydraulic jacks... If and when they failed, it was because of oil leaking pass the high pressure seal.. Most quality Rams have a cup that seal seats into inside of the inner wall in a seal ring groove of the cylinder. Only way the mechanical workings of the ram receive any lube is when they're actuated. The wiper wipes oil off of inside of cylinder shaft when its retracted . The oil pushes down on top of the ram forcing it down, when retracted, the oil is sent back to the reservoir and pulls the cylinder upward

Don't know why check valves weren't added in line to keep cylinders up, or help keep them down.. too much money I guess... BUT if HP seal is shot, you'll still have trouble

The front Rams that's were put on my 5er have a larger OD and appear more robust than the OEM rams that were removed. The outside only needs maintainence that is stated for it by the manufacturer .

What's funny about all this is the many many post on more than several forums on which is best, electric or hydraulic Rams.. It seems it's a split.. I've Owned 5ers for 20 years and NEVER had the first issue with electric slides or landing gears... can't say that about hydraulic.. Biggest hit on electric was they're too slow!?! When setting up, I never really was in that big of a hurry to level and get slides out... This all based solely on my own personal experience.

Jim

[wingnut60]

Anyone have a link to a drawing/picture of the rams with the cover on them? This thread has me wondering on my '15 if/when this is going to happen to me?
I am only used to the old models where you can see the ram as it extends.
Thanks,
Joe

[NC Hauler]

Originally Posted by wingnut60

Anyone have a link to a drawing/picture of the rams with the cover on them? This thread has me wondering on my '15 if/when this is going to happen to me?
I am only used to the old models where you can see the ram as it extends.
Thanks,
Joe

Don't have a picture, but saw what was removed from one.. The OEM front jacks have the SAME OD as the 4 back Rams!! There are Two sleeves.. I saw them and Ron McCoy explained it to me.. The new 14K jacks are a bigger diameter ram , aluminum... Ron told me if the sleeves weren't in place encompassing the ram.. IT COULD BEND from the weight. The high pressure seal that fail is inside the ram, as are wipers that wipe ram clean when it's retracted. Bottom line, sounds like wrong ram for the job..

I had slides that would, and then wouldn't work right and drift out.. front Rams were dropping, as were two back ones on the curb side. Ron removed two front Rams and actually removed a manifold and solenoid that was located inside the reservoir compartment on the right... zero issues thus far.

Hope this helped
Jim

[wingnut60]

Well, this morning in Green River, UT, woke up to see the driver side front jack extended (I am still on the truck, just an overnight stay). Will run them up/down several times before heading out for Durango.
My summer schedule is pretty firm and on the wrong side of the US to get work done, so guess will have to hope they work for the next few months.
Joe

[dapperdan]

Originally Posted by wingnut60

Well, this morning in Green River, UT, woke up to see the driver side front jack extended (I am still on the truck, just an overnight stay). Will run them up/down several times before heading out for Durango.
My summer schedule is pretty firm and on the wrong side of the US to get work done, so guess will have to hope they work for the next few months.
Joe

BUMMER Joe! That really sucks.... Hopefully you can do the "re-set the seals" trick Bob at Roberts RV Repair told me about. It worked for me for a while but Bob warned me that your problem will only worsen over time.

Hopefully you'll be able to get in contact with a certified LCI tech while on the road and get this problem rectified. Jacks drifting down on ya takes ALL the enjoyment out of traveling in your Suites.

Dan

[dapperdan]

Joe, when you stopped for the night did you run your slides out? Roberts (Bob) told me that when the seals start to fail running out the slides will put "pressure" on your front legs indirectly forcing them down due to lack of proper/intact seals.

Bob instructed me that IF I needed to keep my jacks up I'd have to wire them up but to make sure I had blocking under the front jacks if running the slides out because there's going to be significant pressure put on the front jacks and the wire will most likely break under pressure.

Dan

[wingnut60]

Dan,
Not sure what Roberts meant--the only time the slides are out if not setting up is staying overnight still hitched. Should I go ahead and run the jacks down to ground level before putting out the slides? Or after the slides go out? When this first-time happened, the jack only went to the ground with no pressure on it.
Luckily, rest of the trip from Green River to Durango, the jack stayed up. And no problem for the 3 days we've been set up in camp.
I have heard 'fork oil' addition as possible aid in stopping this jack movement--stopped at Harley shop in Durango for 'fork oil' and they asked "What type?" This threw me a curve as I had no idea there were 5 different types...which is the correct to use--A/B/C/D or E? The difference in types is viscosity? I think...
Joe

[NC Hauler]

When my front ram(s?) failed.. My whole system acted up.. off door slide will start going out on its own, while towing.. just 3 or 4 inches, BUT?!? All three Rams on the door side would start drifting down.. When I drove about 40 miles for Ron McCoy to work his magic.. I had three Rams on door side tied up so they wouldnt drop and had the off door slide held in with boards cut to hold it where it was supposed to be when retracted.. At one time I was trying to open the door slide and nothing happened . Opened the off door slide and as soon as it extended fully, the door slide side came out using the same button. IT WAS A MESS!!! Bad seal(s) cause the whole hydraulic system to go plum loco... ALL THIS, from high pressure Chinese seals!!!


You remember the old Ford commercial? I believe it was Ford, " the quality goes in before the name goes on."

RV's; the name goes on whether quality is there or not. After spending almost 44 years in Manufacturing, I've found most RV manufacturers cut corners anywhere they can, I truly believe there are NO quality processes put into place, and NO WAY do they do a final quality chalk on each individual unit... and if you don't catch it during the PDI.. we'll, you know.....

There should be a recall and Lippert ought to step up and make all this right and DRV REALLY needs to get some Quality Contriol processes in place and adhere to them .

Jim

[dapperdan]

Originally Posted by wingnut60

Dan,
Not sure what Roberts meant--the only time the slides are out if not setting up is staying overnight still hitched. Should I go ahead and run the jacks down to ground level before putting out the slides? Or after the slides go out? When this first-time happened, the jack only went to the ground with no pressure on it.
Luckily, rest of the trip from Green River to Durango, the jack stayed up. And no problem for the 3 days we've been set up in camp.
I have heard 'fork oil' addition as possible aid in stopping this jack movement--stopped at Harley shop in Durango for 'fork oil' and they asked "What type?" This threw me a curve as I had no idea there were 5 different types...which is the correct to use--A/B/C/D or E? The difference in types is viscosity? I think...
Joe

Joe, Bob didn’t say anything about adding anti-stiction oil to me but I had heard of it like you. What he did say was IF I had to wire up my front jacks to be sure and block the front legs when running the slides out, the pressure from the hydraulic system would “force” the jacks down because of the bad seals in those front jacks. Once those jacks begin to fail it becomes a hot mess as NC Hauler described earlier. I did not have troubles with my slides staying in while in transit, just the fronts drifting down.

Here’s a link to Lippert’s website as to what they recommend adding to your system should you decide to add anti-stiction oil. http://www.lci1.com/images/support/lipsheet/0295.pdf

I hope you’re able to get to a Lippert tech soon and get your jacks corrected, with these guys acting up it sure takes the fun out of traveling.

Dan

[classichammond]

Keep in mind the problem will not get better. Our first indication of jack failure was when the front jacks retracted while set up. If I were any of you out there with Suites I wouldn't be without some sort of backup support for the front until I had the jacks either replaced or repaired. I also would be watching closely when traveling for the jacks drifting down. Mine only moved once.....but they went all of the way down in 15 miles. I can't imagine the extent of damage to the truck, trailer or passengers possible should you hit some uneven road surface with the jack(s) down. Especially at highway speeds. Lippert and DRV should be addressing this.