Lippert Landing Gear Slowly Drifting Down

cloud william · 06-10-2018, 06:50 PM

After reading a lot of posts about problems with the Lippert Level Up system, I recently started monitoring my coach by putting ink marks on my landing gear legs. Lo and behold, the coach is slowly drifting down 1 inch every 3 weeks. I called Lippert after it had drifted down 1/2" after 10 days, they said it was probably "hydraulic settling" and perfectly normal but to keep watching it. They said if it kept drifting down any more that it probably was due to a slow hydraulic leak and that I should take it to a repair shop for servicing and would not be covered under warranty since our coach was over one year old. Have others taken their coaches in to fix this? If so, what is the fix? Do they replace the seals with improved ones or the same bogus seals that leaked in the first place? How much are people paying for this repair? Since we keep our coach at home and not at a storage place I can keep a constant eye on it and just goose the legs back to level occasionally if I need to, but I'm concerned the leak will get progressively worse. Are others out there living with this issue by just re-leveling every so often?

englishjay · 06-10-2018, 11:10 PM

Possibly fluid leaking past the valves... but there's 1 valves per leg so this is unlikely if it's all the jacks

Bobi, Dick and Ruby McKee · 06-11-2018, 01:13 AM

We have an appointment with Roberts RV in Indiana next month. He was highly recommended by folks on this board. We have not had any problem yet, I'm knocking on wood, but decided to have him do the front rams as a precaution. He pulls them apart, hones the cylinders and replaces the seals with high quality seals. Figured better to take care of a common problem on our terms rather as an emergency.

wingnut60 · 06-11-2018, 03:27 AM

I have a '15 RSSA--had it just over a year. The LF jack has drifted down maybe 3-4 times and the RF only once. Always while still hitched up and stationary, and drops to ground level with no lifting force.
I have read where running the jacks up manually and holding the buttons down for about 2-3 seconds after you hear the pump sound change after they top out will help keep the jacks from dropping. This has worked somewhat for me--after using this method, the incidents have decreased in frequency.
Jacks have never dropped while traveling, nor ever had any force to lift.
Going to nurse them along until it gets too often to ignore.
The correct repair is as McKee has mentioned above or try to get to Lippert in Indiana for them to fix them by replacing each of the front jacks with a different design.
Good luck, keep a close eye on them.
Also, take a look at this previous thread--

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f29...ing-12069.html

Joe

Fulltimer50 · 06-11-2018, 05:00 AM

Cloud,
To be clear, you are talking about the front jacks that are sagging after you have all of the jacks down and have leveled the rig.
I am not sure that the 2016s are having that problem due to the jacks in the front. I would first be sure that all the cylinders are cleaned and lubed. Make sure the fluid level is correct. Look at as many of the connections that you can, to check for leaks.

Porthole · 06-11-2018, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud william

I called Lippert ........ they said it was probably "hydraulic settling" and perfectly normal but to keep watching it.

What a cheesy response

golf-bears · 06-11-2018, 02:13 PM

I'm at Lippert's shop right now having the LF jack checked out. Found hydraulic fluid on the ram and pad this winter while in TX. Made the appointment in Feb. Will know more later, they are working on it right now. Can't go in the shop to talk to the tech because of shop insurance and safety issues.

Will post later once I know what the problems are.

cloud william · 06-11-2018, 03:47 PM

Thanks everyone for the replies. In answer to some of the questions, the coach is slowly drifting down on the front jacks after all the jacks are down and it's been auto-leveled. There is no indication of hydraulic fluid leaking anywhere that is visible and the fluid level in the tank is a half inch from the top with all the jacks up and all slides sucked in. The fluid level has not changed in the tank since I filled it to that level over a year ago after finding out that the tank was not properly filled at the factory. We're heading out in a couple of days so I'll try holding the retract button for a few seconds after all the jacks are up. If it's still drifting after that I'll contact Roberts RV since we were already planning on driving through Indiana later this summer.

golf-bears · 06-11-2018, 04:15 PM

OK, here's an update. The LF jack was leaking oil, ever so slightly, from the top cap. They are replacing the jack and are in the process of reassembling everything now.

This leak is somewhat unusual because they normally leak oil from the rod seals, not through the cap.

Cloud, if you are not seeing oil leaking out then the internal seals are leaking. Oil is leaking from the rod side to the piston side which will allow the jack to drop. Hope you get it fixed soon.

wingnut60 · 06-11-2018, 04:47 PM

Roberts stays booked up well ahead--perhaps you should get in touch now to see what openings are available.

mtntrek · 06-12-2018, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobi, Dick and Ruby McKee

We have an appointment with Roberts RV in Indiana next month. He was highly recommended by folks on this board. We have not had any problem yet, I'm knocking on wood, but decided to have him do the front rams as a precaution. He pulls them apart, hones the cylinders and replaces the seals with high quality seals. Figured better to take care of a common problem on our terms rather as an emergency.

^Sound advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud william

After reading a lot of posts about problems with the Lippert Level Up system.
Naturally doing as much research as you can is a good thing.
I recently started monitoring my coach by putting ink marks on my landing gear legs. Lo and behold, the coach is slowly drifting down 1 inch every 3 weeks.

Unfortunately, none of us armchair techs are going to be true authorities, there may be isolated or unique issues. True troubleshooting requires hands-on facts and observations. Good start though.

I called Lippert after it had drifted down 1/2" after 10 days, they said it was probably "hydraulic settling" and perfectly normal but to keep watching it.

Hydraulic fluid cannot be compressed, air causes sponginess, "hydraulic settling" can only be the result of a leaking seal or valve somewhere.

They said if it kept drifting down any more that it probably was due to a slow hydraulic leak and that I should take it to a repair shop for servicing and would not be covered under warranty since our coach was over one year old. Have others taken their coaches in to fix this?

CYA-speak, but accurate. A qualified tech with a working knowledge of these type (hydraulic) systems and appropriate testing equipment should be able to pinpoint the culprit(s).
If so, what is the fix? Do they replace the seals with improved ones or the same bogus seals that leaked in the first place?

Good description in previous post sounds workable.

In our case the nuisance settling continued for a time, but suddenly resulted in a catastrophic failure rendering the trailer unusable in an inconvenient location. PIA +
Ultimately, this lead to a decision of a retrofit of the front landing gear with different models, more like the rears. PIA +

How much are people paying for this repair? Since we keep our coach at home and not at a storage place.

YMMV, you should approach this from what / where you can get it done.
You should schedule this diagnostic and repair at your convenience, as it's schedule will be way more inconvenient, and much more costly. We're FT, it should be easier for those that have their trailer available for secondary use to schedule for repairs?

I can keep a constant eye on it and just goose the legs back to level occasionally if I need to, but I'm concerned the leak will get progressively worse.

Again in our case, there wasn't linear progression. It was random and erratic.
I wouldn't expect any two cases to be the same or predictable.

It might be prudent, to acquire some sturdy jack stands, or put the landing gear on high enough cribbing that you can get a tow vehicle under the king pin in the event the landing gear settles to the bottom of it's stroke.

Are others out there living with this issue by just re-leveling every so often?
We attempted to but... unfortunately, when / if it fails it fails.

Walker · 06-12-2018, 03:05 AM

Our 2017 has the "New" rams and guess what. In a months time, we drop about an inch in the front.... Never heard of Hydraulic settling... In my world that was called a LEAK.

juicesqueezer · 06-14-2018, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

Our 2017 has the "New" rams and guess what. In a months time, we drop about an inch in the front.... Never heard of Hydraulic settling... In my world that was called a LEAK.

Agree, a leak for sure! Sounds like the factory found another way of actually convincing the owner of miss representing the facts!

cloud william · 06-14-2018, 08:03 PM

We were able to schedule a date at Bobs Quality RV in Indiana for the time we were planning on being back there in a few weeks. I talked to Bob on the phone and he sounds like he knows what he's talking about. Just hope everything sticks together until we get back there ...

mtntrek · 06-14-2018, 10:01 PM

That's good to hear. Please give us an update after the trip. Many will appreciate the information.

Happy Travels!

Joezilla · 06-17-2018, 04:31 AM

On our 2016 MS Atlanta, we just last week experienced total front jack failure. The rig was almost on it's nose. I was able to get it up by turning on the leveling system and punching the front button. I got it high enough that we could get it on the truck. Then I raised the jacks as high as I could and built platforms underneath each one with concrete blocks and wood. We are still headed downhill by a couple of inches though, but could not get it any higher with the jacks and still be able to build said platform underneath them.

I texted my dealer, Slade at Rolling Retreats. He said he could replace them with the same style jacks we had if we could drag it to him. He said however, that they would eventually fail also. He suggested calling DRV and Lippert and see if they would help.

Debbie sent Greg Wheldon at DRV an email that same Sunday and Greg responded early Monday morning. Greg basically said that since we were out of warranty there was nothing DRV would do. He said to call Lippert.

Debbie started calling Lippert later that Monday morning. She talked to a guy that was basically no help to start with. He said that the jacks needed to be tested to see if they were bad. She responded that since the rig was on it's nose, there did not need to be any such test.

He then said that they would replace the front jacks with the same style we have on it now, and we would have to pay for the jacks, the labor, and all associated shop costs.

The more Debbie countered with information about these jacks being a known problem, the more he began to backtrack from that position. He finally said they would replace with the newer style jacks, and Lippert would pay for the jacks,but we would be responsible for the labor and shop costs. When she asked how much the labor would be, he excused himself from the call to go find out. When he came back he stated that Lippert would cover the cost of the new style jacks, the labor and any shop fees.

So we got the soonest 2 day appointment they had which was June 24 & 25. We are in Iowa and will leave for Goshen, IA on Sunday the 23rd and drive the 425 miles to Goshen that day and be ready to drop off the rig at the Lippert factory at 7:00 a.m. on the 24th. The guy did say that it usually takes a day and a half to make the switch.

Here's hoping that all goes well and by next Tuesday afternoon we have fully functioning front jacks.

Now my only concern is what to do to keep the jacks from dropping during the travel day to Goshen. Any ideas guys?

Joe

Porthole · 06-17-2018, 06:24 AM

Take the bolt out holding the plate on and put it through the eye-hook of a nylon strap. Run the strap up through the jack opening in the body to the top of the jack.

juicesqueezer · 06-17-2018, 11:59 AM

Joezilla; good to hear that Lippert is taking care of you! Thanks for the info and updates!

MS60ocb · 06-17-2018, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker

Our 2017 has the "New" rams and guess what. In a months time, we drop about an inch in the front.... Never heard of Hydraulic settling... In my world that was called a LEAK.

I have the older rams and have similar problems. If I put a stand under the pin to hold some weight, no problem. I call that stabilizing the weight.
My front drops if it is real windy. The weight on the pin is normal 5,000 lbs so I never tried to calculate the weight on the jacks but I'm sure the individual jacks are stressed by overload when the RV rocks abit. I have seem this repeatly when the RV is parked with the slides in and also when camped out on Concrete Pads
Clay 2016 MS 38PS3 40 foot long, with Generator, 2 sets of batteries, 2800 watt invertor

wingnut60 · 06-22-2018, 04:14 PM

Joe,
Who did Debbie work with at Lippert?
Thanks,
Joe

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