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Old 08-16-2016, 08:15 PM   #1
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Model: MS 38RSSA
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OK to use Level Up to jack up the coach?

Anyone use the Lippert Level Up system to jack your coach to change tires or repack the bearings? I've seen some threads on the SOITC forums where lots of folks post procedures for doing this, but our Lippert Level Up owners manual has a warning section that says NOT to use the Level Up system but to "ensure the unit is properly supported with jack stands ... under the frame of the unit prior to commencing any service or repair procedure". Does everyone carry jack stands with them in case of blowouts, or do they rely on roadside assistance? Any jack stand brand recommendations?


2016 MS 38RSSA with Mor Ryde suspension & kingpin
2015 RAM 3500 Limited DRW Cummins 6.7 Aisen 4.10 with factory air suspension B&W Companion 3600 hitch
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:57 PM   #2
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Rpoutlaw

Lossen lugs before lift. Place Jack stands. Change tire. Torque lugs to specs back on ground.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:22 AM   #3
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Yes, every time I pack the bearings. Mine actually sat for 3 days with no wheels waiting for new brake parts. They have to recommend not doing it for legal reasons, but the jacks are rated to handle the weight of your coach by 3-4 times,
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:49 AM   #4
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If you are not comfortable with the level up system the TrailerAid is a great option especially for those with standard systems.

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Old 08-17-2016, 12:18 PM   #5
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NEVER, EVER get under a truck, car, trailer or anything else supported by hydraulics only. Always use jack stands placed under the frame. The jacks are more than capable of lifting the trailer but don't bet your life on a Chinese seal.

I have lost 2 friends to jack failures over the years so don't let anyone tell you it doesn't happen. If you like to live dangerously though, go for it.

Cummins, don't forget that the TrailerAid system puts ALL of the weight on one side of the trailer onto one tire/axle (for two axle trailer). Keep that in mind if you are right at the load limit with your axles.

I have had both front jacks re-sealed already and the front jack seals popped again a few weeks back when leaning the trailer over slightly to replace the black tank valve (lets the crap run to the door side and not out the valve). Then again, Mr. Murphy has a permanent place on my shoulder and YMMV.
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:55 PM   #6
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"Cummins, don't forget that the TrailerAid system puts ALL of the weight on one side of the trailer onto one tire/axle (for two axle trailer). Keep that in mind if you are right at the load limit with your axles."

I appreciate the advice. I was at or a bit over with that situation. I did the same changing my rotors and replacing brakes and service in general. I did put down the front landing gear and had the truck EB on. As far as loading the tire like that there are many times one tire is carrying all the weight like going over uneven surfaces or parked on uneven terrain. Many thousands of miles doing so with no ill effects. What I like about this system is it works all the time. Bottle jacks unless on SOLID ground are not stable and many situations won't even fit under the axle. No laying on the ground under the RV with one tire flat and axle hanging. Even tho I have the 6 point system I still pack the TrailerAid "just in case" !
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Old 08-17-2016, 06:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by GeorgiaHybrid View Post
NEVER, EVER get under a truck, car, trailer or anything else supported by hydraulics only. Always use jack stands placed under the frame. The jacks are more than capable of lifting the trailer but don't bet your life on a Chinese seal.

....cut.....
Could not agree more.

And for me it's not just about seals being Chinese, because I've been around heavy equipment and jacks since I started working in a shop at 12, and procedures have always been to assume a hydraulic jack can and will fail.

I have reluctantly changed tires a few times while vehicle was supported by hydraulic jack, but made sure to stay clear at all times, and always placed the extra tire/wheel under vehicle just in case the jack failed.


One thing I want to add is that I've personally witnessed a vehicle drop when a support crumbled (the guy put it on concrete blocks -- a horrible idea) and it drops so fast that there is no time to react, not to mention get out of the way. Gravity is incredibly fast. Don't ever count on being able to anticipate a failure because you won't.
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Old 08-17-2016, 10:36 PM   #8
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Thanks everyone for the advice. Given the Level Up reliability issues I'm not going to use it to jack the coach, I'll get some jack stands for when I repack the bearings in a few days. I'm thinking I'll hook the coach up to the truck with truck emergency brake engaged, raise the landing gear, and then put two jacks on each side of the coach wheels and crank up that side so the wheels are free to rotate. Based on what Georgia said about tilting the coach with the Level Up and then stressing the seals I'm going to make sure all the Level Up jacks and landing gear are up, unless someone tells me that's a dumb idea. Seems like it would be the same as changing a tire on the side of the road.

Georgia: Given your experience with the Level Up seals, do you do anything to ensure that the landing gear stays up in the event of a seal failure while you're towing, like straps or chains or something?

Cummins: I like the Trailer Aid idea, I might use that approach if I can't find good jacks. I'll probably get one for emergencies. Also in an earlier post you indicated that you repack your own bearings by pumping the zerk fitting while rotating the wheel until new grease comes back out. Any idea of how much grease that takes per axle? What grease do you use?
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:41 AM   #9
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I also bought a trailer aid but haven't had to use it yet. I haven't had a flat yet on my MS but the Travel Supreme I had for the last eight years I had 14 flats. The combination of a floor jack and a bottle jack always got the job done. I never crawl under, if I have to I also carry tow 10 ton jack stands. Question Cummins, I think I read you have the 17.5 rims, is the boards under the trailer aid in the picture necessary to get the height and are your boards attached to the trailer aid?
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:41 AM   #10
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You can raise the entire trailer off of the ground with the jacks without a problem. Just use jack stands for safety.

As far as keeping the jacks up while traveling, I did the following
1) drilled a 1/8 pilot hole thru the sleeve and the jack piston cover pipe while retracted.
2) lowered the jacks and drilled the hole in jack piston cover pipe to 3/8
3) retracted the jacks fully and drill the sleeve for a 5/16-18 tap.
4) while still retracted, tap the sleeve with 5/16-18 tap.
5) thread a nut and a lock washer onto a 2" long 5/16-18 bolt and then thread that into the tapped hole about 1 1/2 inches.
6) tighten the nut to the sleeve and hold it with one wrench and then use another to tighten the bolt and jamb it into place.

It only takes about 45 minutes to do that and once you are done, about 3 to 4 minutes to install or remove them to travel.

The jacks will never drop and the jamb nut will prevent the bolt from backing out.
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaHybrid View Post
You can raise the entire trailer off of the ground with the jacks without a problem. Just use jack stands for safety.

As far as keeping the jacks up while traveling, I did the following
1) drilled a 1/8 pilot hole thru the sleeve and the jack piston cover pipe while retracted.
2) lowered the jacks and drilled the hole in jack piston cover pipe to 3/8
3) retracted the jacks fully and drill the sleeve for a 5/16-18 tap.
4) while still retracted, tap the sleeve with 5/16-18 tap.
5) thread a nut and a lock washer onto a 2" long 5/16-18 bolt and then thread that into the tapped hole about 1 1/2 inches.
6) tighten the nut to the sleeve and hold it with one wrench and then use another to tighten the bolt and jamb it into place.

It only takes about 45 minutes to do that and once you are done, about 3 to 4 minutes to install or remove them to travel.

The jacks will never drop and the jamb nut will prevent the bolt from backing out.
Got a picture? interesting!
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Old 08-18-2016, 04:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud william View Post
Thanks everyone for the advice. Given the Level Up reliability issues I'm not going to use it to jack the coach, I'll get some jack stands for when I repack the bearings in a few days. I'm thinking I'll hook the coach up to the truck with truck emergency brake engaged, raise the landing gear, and then put two jacks on each side of the coach wheels and crank up that side so the wheels are free to rotate. Based on what Georgia said about tilting the coach with the Level Up and then stressing the seals I'm going to make sure all the Level Up jacks and landing gear are up, unless someone tells me that's a dumb idea. Seems like it would be the same as changing a tire on the side of the road.

Georgia: Given your experience with the Level Up seals, do you do anything to ensure that the landing gear stays up in the event of a seal failure while you're towing, like straps or chains or something?

Cummins: I like the Trailer Aid idea, I might use that approach if I can't find good jacks. I'll probably get one for emergencies. Also in an earlier post you indicated that you repack your own bearings by pumping the zerk fitting while rotating the wheel until new grease comes back out. Any idea of how much grease that takes per axle? What grease do you use?
The grease comes back out the front. I use AMZ/OIL grease designed for wheel bearings. It's red sorry I don't know the product. I can look for you if you want.

You can raise just one side without the truck attached if you want.

The trailerAid really is a simple device and there is no possibility of the RV falling.
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Old 08-18-2016, 04:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by oldbird View Post
I also bought a trailer aid but haven't had to use it yet. I haven't had a flat yet on my MS but the Travel Supreme I had for the last eight years I had 14 flats. The combination of a floor jack and a bottle jack always got the job done. I never crawl under, if I have to I also carry tow 10 ton jack stands. Question Cummins, I think I read you have the 17.5 rims, is the boards under the trailer aid in the picture necessary to get the height and are your boards attached to the trailer aid?
I have not tried with the MORryde system. In the pic I had the CenterPoint and the 2X was needed. I had the 17.5's in the pic also.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cummins12V98 View Post
The grease comes back out the front. I use AMZ/OIL grease designed for wheel bearings. It's red sorry I don't know the product. I can look for you if you want.

You can raise just one side without the truck attached if you want.

The trailerAid really is a simple device and there is no possibility of the RV falling.
I would highly recommend hand packing over the Ez Lube unless you are 100% confident in the condition of your grease seals, to much pressure or grease will result in grease saturated brakes which equal reduced stopping condition or in some cases a fire. Not trying to scare you, but I pack not pump.
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Old 08-18-2016, 05:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans View Post
I would highly recommend hand packing over the Ez Lube unless you are 100% confident in the condition of your grease seals, to much pressure or grease will result in grease saturated brakes which equal reduced stopping condition or in some cases a fire. Not trying to scare you, but I pack not pump.

It's very easy to see if grease is coming out the back side of the seal. I will continue to SLOWLY add grease while rotating the tire until clean grease comes out the front, wipe off excess grease and replace cap.

With electric brakes I would hand pack for sure but with disk brakes it's not a problem.

The problem arrises when people just BLAST grease into the spindle with a air powered grease gun and don't rotate the tires.

If this system fails I will most likely go to the oil bath system.
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by oldbird View Post
Got a picture? interesting!
The hole in the sleeve covering the jack leg is oversized by 1/16 to 3/8" to allow the bolt to enter easily.




The sleeve that is welded to the trailer has the threads cut into the hole. You can also see the magnificent, rusty welding and subsequent paint job of the sleeve to the frame. That will be a project that will be done after we get back from Hutch this year. Grind out all of the crap, weld it right and then paint with POR-15



I do hand pack my bearings as it gives me a chance to inspect them for wear and stop a problem at that point before a tire/wheel combo goes whizzing past the truck on the road somewhere from a broken spindle. Each to his own though as I don't mind doing them and others despise packing a bearing.

As far as the TrilerAid goes, I will not use one. We have jacks on these trailers that work great for jacking it into the air. The problem with that system is that it puts the entire weight of that side of the trailer onto the remaining spindle/axle. When you have a trailer like mine that is loaded to the max at 4,000 pounds per tire, an overload of twice the design capacity can cause a spindle to bend, bearing race to deform or any number of other issues.

Again, everyone can do what they prefer and I'm glad that they do, as it used to give us a lot of business back in the old days when I was turning wrenches for a living. Fixing someone else's "boo-boo" was a good source of income.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:14 PM   #17
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"rusty welding and subsequent paint job of the sleeve to the frame" that is just spray foam to keep the critters out!

I agree on the hand packing in general. Next Summer will be two years on RV I will pull one hub at a time and visually inspect and then go back to greasing thru the spindle.

Lots of people think the RV axle/spindle will fail using the TrailerAid and my response is what about when going over uneven ground like a curb or a RV site that is low on one tire and most of the weight is transferred to the other tire?

If there was going to be a failure it would have happened in the pic I posted, that RV weight was around 19K. I won't use it if the conditions allow for me to use my RV's jacks but I sure will if the conditions dictate.

Nice to have options and opinions!
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:54 PM   #18
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I have to agree with Cummins on this one. I just went out and looked at mine and it's spray foam, not weld.

Bill
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:23 PM   #19
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What kind of jack stands do you guys use, and what are there load capacities?
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:04 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by cloud william View Post
What kind of jack stands do you guys use, and what are there load capacities?

Fill in your public profile so we can see what RV you have.
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