Thinking About Going Solar

[cloud william]

Anyone out there install their own solar power battery recharging system? We've been doing a lot of boondocking lately and it seems like solar would be a good way to go. We just want to keep the batteries charged up so we don't have to keep running the generator every morning and evening to keep them topped off. Our 2016 MS 38RSSA is supposedly solar-prepped, so I called DRV and they couldn't tell me what that meant. I popped the tops of the two circular vent covers near the front of the roof but all I could see was some thermal insulation inside. I didn't see any wires. We have the four 6-volt flooded batteries up front along with the Magnum 2800 watt inverter and Onan 5500W generator. The big questions I have are:

Does DRV solar prep mean that there are wires somewhere from the roof to the battery compartment (and hopefully to the control panel inside the coach), and if so what gage is the wire and what is the volt/amp capacity of the wire?

DRV couldn't tell me what brand of 6V flooded batteries they installed at the factory or what their amp/hour ratings were. I've looked in the battery compartment and can't find a make/model without completely unwiring the batteries and removing them. They are black and came with three white caps which I've replaced with the Flow-Rite watering system caps. Anyone know what batteries DRV installed in early 2016 models (delivered June 2015)? Trojan T105's possibly?

Any issues with installing the solar charging system with the Magnum inverter and Onan generator also hooked up to the batteries? I realize that I need a solar controller/monitor, but will that alone protect the inverter and generator or do I need to do some kind of bypass wiring to protect them?

I'm looking at the Carmanah (aka GoPower) 100W flexible solar panels. They seem kind of pricey but usually you get what you pay for and they have a 5 year warranty. Anyone have Carmanah/GoPower systems or heard anything good or bad about them?

I'll probably install three or four panels, each 100W. Is it better to wire them in series or parallel?

I'm also leaning toward an MPPT charge controller (pricey, more efficient) as opposed to a PWM controller (cheaper, less efficient). Thoughts?

Any other issues I should be aware of?

I'm no electrician but I've wired lots of DIY projects in the house and have the time (retired), so I'd like to install the solar system myself. Am I crazy or should I hire a licensed electrician and pay big bucks? I talked to a fellow DRV owner who recently had a solar system installed and he said he paid $5000!

[rynosback]

From what I remembered they have a wire somewhere on the roof. I know some people paid a little more to have the heavier gauge wire installed instead of the stock one. Another option instead of drilling holes to mount the panels on your roof. Would be to just carry the panels and set them up in the best place close to the rig. Plus this makes it so you could park under a tree giving you shade to keep cooler. Just an idea, good luck.

[rbonham]

Trojan produces a “black box” 6 volt battery that is the same physical size as the T105+, but the performance specifications for the black box battery are inferior to the those of the T105+ which is maroon in color. The black box batteries are privately labeled by our different distributors around the country. The bottom line is that if the batteries in the unit are not maroon in color with a label clearly showing the Trojan brand, they are not our model T105+ battery.

If you have any questions, please let me know. I’m happy to help.

Have a good day,

Stacey Delzeit
Senior Applications Engineer
Trojan Battery Company

Tel: (478) 845-7707
sdelzeit@trojanbattery.com
www.trojanbattery.com

[Porkchop]

Solar prep from the factory usually just involves a dedicated pair of #10 wires from the front most vent cover to the battery compartment. What control panel do you think wiring would go to? The solar controller will go close to the batteries, and most are not user adjustable. You could fish some wiring for an indicator light if you wanted to.
Sometimes it is a little hard to see the wiring by just removing the top cap. You may need to remove the assembly to actually see the wires. Or bend a hook on a piece of stiff wire and poke around a bit.
The solar wiring is compatible with your gen and inverter.
Sometimes, at the request of the dealer, new units are shipped from the factory with a small throwaway battery just to operate things while in transit. Upon sale these dealers will install new batteries of their choice. Sometimes you can end up with a set of cheapo batteries that way, but at least they will be fresh and not 2 years old from setting on the lot. Seems like a reasonable practice to me unless the unit is presold.
Good luck.

Bill

[wingnut60]

FYI,
I have a '15 RSSA and have solar install scheduled for 15 Aug by AMSolar. The info for DIY is on their site also, check it out.
I don't have the patience nor ability to DIY, thus went to AMSolar. Give them a call to see what they suggest.
The 'solar prep' from the factory may not be sufficient for a good setup, don't know for sure.
Joe

[Porkchop]

I'm not really up to snuff on solar but I imagine the factory wiring would only be for a small setup, nothing like it sounds OP is looking for. Should work as pull wires to install larger cables though.

Bill

[cloud william]

Thanks rbonham for the answer about the batteries, they are definitely black and not maroon so they aren't T105+. I'll have to disconnect and pull a battery out to look for more info about amp/hour capacity, etc.

Thanks Porkchop, wingnut60, and rynosback for your responses.

Checked out the AMSolar website, looks like it has a lot of useful information.

We found a set of two 10 gage wires in the streetside battery compartment not connected to anything so we may have found that end of the wires. I'll go back up on the roof to check beneath the insulation in the vent above the battery compartment to see if that's the other end and check for continuity with the ends in the battery compartment.

I like the idea of using the 10 gage wires to pull something bigger through, just hope there aren't too many bends to go through since I've done that sort of thing before and it can get really hard to pull.

I'll keep plugging away on this until it's obvious I should have it professionally!

[heiser252]

Originally Posted by cloud william

Anyone out there install their own solar power battery recharging system? We've been doing a lot of boondocking lately and it seems like solar would be a good way to go. We just want to keep the batteries charged up so we don't have to keep running the generator every morning and evening to keep them topped off. Our 2016 MS 38RSSA is supposedly solar-prepped, so I called DRV and they couldn't tell me what that meant. I popped the tops of the two circular vent covers near the front of the roof but all I could see was some thermal insulation inside. I didn't see any wires. We have the four 6-volt flooded batteries up front along with the Magnum 2800 watt inverter and Onan 5500W generator. The big questions I have are:

I have done multiple solar installs on RV's. I put 1410 watts on my DRV and have installed similar systems on other DRV's and SOB trailers. I have also given solar presentations at RV rallies.

Does DRV solar prep mean that there are wires somewhere from the roof to the battery compartment (and hopefully to the control panel inside the coach), and if so what gage is the wire and what is the volt/amp capacity of the wire?

DRV's solar prep is simply running wires from the roof to the off door side battery compartment. I am not sure what size wire they did as standard in 2016. I thought it was 6AWG for my 2017, but if you found 10AWG wire, that could be it. I had them run 4AWG when I had my trailer built. The wire will terminate at the roof under a dummy vent cover near the the front of the roof. You will have to completely remove the cover and fish around in the hole to find the wires.

DRV couldn't tell me what brand of 6V flooded batteries they installed at the factory or what their amp/hour ratings were. I've looked in the battery compartment and can't find a make/model without completely unwiring the batteries and removing them. They are black and came with three white caps which I've replaced with the Flow-Rite watering system caps. Anyone know what batteries DRV installed in early 2016 models (delivered June 2015)? Trojan T105's possibly?

It was my understanding that the black no name batteries DRV uses are the Trojan nock offs described previously. I have a set in my shop, but there is no labeling on them so I have not been able to confirm this. Either way, they are a decent battery to start with. I would eventually upgrade them, but they will make an acceptable base to start with for a new solar system. I put four Fullriver DC260 12 volt batteries in my system. They are an 8D sized 12 volt battery with 260 amp hours of storage for a total of 1040 amp hour of capacity in my bank.

Any issues with installing the solar charging system with the Magnum inverter and Onan generator also hooked up to the batteries? I realize that I need a solar controller/monitor, but will that alone protect the inverter and generator or do I need to do some kind of bypass wiring to protect them?

There are no issues installing a solar system with a proper charge controller to your existing system. With your existing Magnum components, I would look at the Magnum PT-100 charge controller. It is a very good controller and will integrate with your existing components and can even be controlled from the ME-ARC remote if you have that already (although it may require a firmware update if it doesn't already show the PT menus). Magnum will do the update for free, but it does require you to send your remote to them. I sent one in for the update and they had it back to me in a couple of days. The PT-100 does require higher voltage panels to properly function however.

I'm looking at the Carmanah (aka GoPower) 100W flexible solar panels. They seem kind of pricey but usually you get what you pay for and they have a 5 year warranty. Anyone have Carmanah/GoPower systems or heard anything good or bad about them?

Avoid flexible panels at all cost. They do not last and they are the least efficient solar panel on the market. They can also be scratched easily, making them even less efficient. Most all rigid solar panels come with a 20 or greater year warranty. The flexible ones have much shorter warranties for the reasons I mentioned.

I'll probably install three or four panels, each 100W. Is it better to wire them in series or parallel?

Generally, parallel is best for RV solar installs. This will mitigate shading issues the best and keep your system producing. If you go the PT-100 route though, a series/parallel configuration would be best to get the voltage increase necessary to properly pier the charge controller.

I'm also leaning toward an MPPT charge controller (pricey, more efficient) as opposed to a PWM controller (cheaper, less efficient). Thoughts?

I always recommend MPPT. They are more effective at milking every bit of possible power out of a solar panel, especially higher voltage panels. If you go higher voltage, you can also get away with smaller AWG wire.

Any other issues I should be aware of?

Using the existing wire from the roof to the compartment to pull new wire will be impossible. The wire is secured with fasteners in the walls and makes too many bends to allow this to happen. You will either need to use the existing wire or run new wire.

I'm no electrician but I've wired lots of DIY projects in the house and have the time (retired), so I'd like to install the solar system myself. Am I crazy or should I hire a licensed electrician and pay big bucks? I talked to a fellow DRV owner who recently had a solar system installed and he said he paid $5000!

If you are not afraid of electricity and are decently handy, it will always be significantly cheaper to build your own system. I am talking many thousands of dollars on a large system. The smaller the system, the smaller the savings but there will still be savings.

I am happy to answer any specific questions you have. I can also provide a link to a write up about my system when I get home and off my iPad if you would like.

[cloud william]

Thanks heiser252 for the obviously authoritative answers to my questions! I've been offline for the past few days hence my delayed reply. I'll check with Magnum about the PT-100 charge controller, they are headquartered about a half hour's drive from us so hopefully they can answer my questions and provide any updates I might need. Also good to know that I can't pull the existing wire since I was just about ready to do that. And yes I would like to see the link to your system write-up, I'm sure others on this forum would like to see it too. Thanks again for your answers!

[wingnut60]

Going thru heiser252s install is a tutorial on solar installs--he could easily be in the business with his knowledge.

[heiser252]

Thanks for the compliments. I do enjoy working on RV electrical "stuff." I have considered doing solar and inverter installations on the side once I retire to give me something to do every once in a while. It will have to fit in my travel schedule though.

Here is a link to a thread about my system on another forum.

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?/...r-output-data/

It includes links to all my major components and a link to a wiring diagram I drew up and some photos of the installation.

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by heiser252

Thanks for the compliments. I do enjoy working on RV electrical "stuff." I have considered doing solar and inverter installations on the side once I retire to give me something to do every once in a while. It will have to fit in my travel schedule though.

Here is a link to a thread about my system on another forum.

My Solar Installs - Now with Solar Output Data - Technical Tips and Tricks - Escapees Discussion Forum

It includes links to all my major components and a link to a wiring diagram I drew up and some photos of the installation.

Looking at your writeup on the Escappees thread.

You said you ordered the unit with the Hybrid inverter.
I recently inquired about changing out the standard Magnum 2800 to the 3012 Hybrid and the DRV reply was they never did it.

Any suggestions for trying to make that happen?

Was the price difference just the difference between the two models ?

I'm thinking of canceling the 2800 watt option.
I can get the hybrid for under $1700 and do my own install.

Another negative i was told (by DRV) is that if I order the 2800 watt option the door side basement door will be smaller (width) because of the inverter and battery compartment they add in the right front.
Did your basement door change ?

The factory installs 6 AWG wire form the roof now. Is it worth trying to get them to upgrade the wire? I think you said 4AWG was as large as they would go, correct?

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by heiser252

I am happy to answer any specific questions you have. I can also provide a link to a write up about my system when I get home and off my iPad if you would like.

Chad, with your factory installed inverter upgrade, how is the coach wired?
Meaning, does DRV take one leg and pass through the inverter and feed one side of the panel all the time or are there just a few circuits they are feeding off the bigger inverter.

Is the Magnum then the battery charger?

Do they eliminate the converter or just unplug?

Still undecided on our electrical end for the new trailer. But some of the things I am considering is not doing the factory inverter upgrade and leaving the small inverter dedicated for the fridge.

Currently I have a pure SW 3000 pass through inverter (with transfer switch) that will be removed and available for the new trailer.
I use that for all our AV stuff and a few extra circuits, like an ice maker.

I have this idea of installing a smaller generator (if at all) and using two of the 3012 Hybrids feeding both sides of the panel. This should work well when we are on a 30 amp service, which in the northeast seems to be about half the parks we go to.

The basement areas of these rigs seem to be plenty big for multiple batteries.

How has the Hybrid been working for you ?

[heiser252]

Originally Posted by Porthole

Looking at your writeup on the Escappees thread.

You said you ordered the unit with the Hybrid inverter.
I recently inquired about changing out the standard Magnum 2800 to the 3012 Hybrid and the DRV reply was they never did it.

Any suggestions for trying to make that happen?

Was the price difference just the difference between the two models ?

I'm thinking of canceling the 2800 watt option.
I can get the hybrid for under $1700 and do my own install.

Another negative i was told (by DRV) is that if I order the 2800 watt option the door side basement door will be smaller (width) because of the inverter and battery compartment they add in the right front.
Did your basement door change ?

The factory installs 6 AWG wire form the roof now. Is it worth trying to get them to upgrade the wire? I think you said 4AWG was as large as they would go, correct?

Who are you ordering your trailer through? I ordered through Rolling Retreats and was easily able to specify which Magnum components I wanted installed in my DRV. I can give you the last six of my VIN to give to DRV to use as an example if that would help. I also specified that DRV run all the 12 volt connections to the door side battery compartment to assist me in wiring up my large battery bank which I installed after delivery. Normally, DRV runs the standard 12 volt connections to the off door side battery compartment and the inverter connections to the door side battery compartment when an inverter is added with the four battery option. This splits the batteries and the wiring essentially in half and is not the best way to wire up a battery bank in my opinion.

I don’t know what the difference in cost was between the 2812 and the 3012. I never priced the 2812 to see the difference because I only wanted the 3012.

As for the door size, I believe that will depend on which floor plan you are ordering. My compartment door is quite large and did not change by adding the inverter option. It did result in different door openings on the front of the 5er though to incorporate the second battery compartment.

If you plan to add solar, I would go with the largest solar wire available. In my case, the largest DRV would do was 4 AWG. I wouldn’t have wanted anything smaller and tried to get them to go to 2 AWG, but they wouldn’t do that.

[heiser252]

Originally Posted by Porthole

Chad, with your factory installed inverter upgrade, how is the coach wired?
Meaning, does DRV take one leg and pass through the inverter and feed one side of the panel all the time or are there just a few circuits they are feeding off the bigger inverter.

Is the Magnum then the battery charger?

Do they eliminate the converter or just unplug?

Still undecided on our electrical end for the new trailer. But some of the things I am considering is not doing the factory inverter upgrade and leaving the small inverter dedicated for the fridge.

Currently I have a pure SW 3000 pass through inverter (with transfer switch) that will be removed and available for the new trailer.
I use that for all our AV stuff and a few extra circuits, like an ice maker.

I have this idea of installing a smaller generator (if at all) and using two of the 3012 Hybrids feeding both sides of the panel. This should work well when we are on a 30 amp service, which in the northeast seems to be about half the parks we go to.

The basement areas of these rigs seem to be plenty big for multiple batteries.

How has the Hybrid been working for you ?

When the large inverter option is added (2812 or 3012), DRV installs an main power panel and a sub panel. The main panel supplies power to the high draw items like the air conditioners, fire place, electric side of the water heater (if applicable), electric side of RV refrigerator (if applicable) and the inverter. The inverter then either passes power through to the sub panel when plugged into shore power/generator or supplies power to the sub panel from the batteries when inverting. The sub panel powers all the electrical outlets, microwave, residential refrigerator, etc. in this type of install, the Magnum inverter is also the battery charger. There is no converter installed.

I added a small dedicated inverter and transfer switch to also power my residential refrigerator without powering everything else. I didn’t want to power everything else in the trailer while going down the road.

I understand your desire to run two 3012’s in parallel to power the coach, but unless you are running a large lithium battery bank to allow running the air conditioners I would not go that route. There would still be additional steps required to make this work electrically. If you don’t plan to run air conditioners from the batteries this would be way overkill and not cost effective. With a single hybrid 3012, I can run anything and everything in the trailer off any size power source. The exceptions to this the are my air conditioners and my 240 volt clothes dryer. I can run one air conditioner and sometimes two from a 30 amp plug. If I have less Han 30 amp, then no air conditioners are available. There are some things I can do to make this possible, but I am waiting for my warranty to run out before I go down this road.

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by heiser252

Who are you ordering your trailer through? I ordered through Rolling Retreats and was easily able to specify which Magnum components I wanted installed in my DRV. I can give you the last six of my VIN to give to DRV to use as an example if that would help. I also specified that DRV run all the 12 volt connections to the door side battery compartment to assist me in wiring up my large battery bank which I installed after delivery. Normally, DRV runs the standard 12 volt connections to the off door side battery compartment and the inverter connections to the door side battery compartment when an inverter is added with the four battery option. This splits the batteries and the wiring essentially in half and is not the best way to wire up a battery bank in my opinion.

I don’t know what the difference in cost was between the 2812 and the 3012. I never priced the 2812 to see the difference because I only wanted the 3012.

As for the door size, I believe that will depend on which floor plan you are ordering. My compartment door is quite large and did not change by adding the inverter option. It did result in different door openings on the front of the 5er though to incorporate the second battery compartment.

If you plan to add solar, I would go with the largest solar wire available. In my case, the largest DRV would do was 4 AWG. I wouldn’t have wanted anything smaller and tried to get them to go to 2 AWG, but they wouldn’t do that.

PM'd

Good idea with the 12 volt wiring. I kind of figured the battery pairs would be wired not for the most efficiency, especially being 6 feet apart.
Current MSRP on the 2812 option is $2180

Factory rep told me that on the 39DBRS3 the door side basement door is made smaller due to the batteries and inverter add on, along with an additional access door to the doors side of the gen compartment.

Solar is down the road, but if getting a manufacturer to bump up the wire size a bit during build is possible, then that certainly is the way to go.

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by heiser252

When the large inverter option is added (2812 or 3012), DRV installs an main power panel and a sub panel. The main panel supplies power to the high draw items like the air conditioners, fire place, electric side of the water heater (if applicable), electric side of RV refrigerator (if applicable) and the inverter. The inverter then either passes power through to the sub panel when plugged into shore power/generator or supplies power to the sub panel from the batteries when inverting. The sub panel powers all the electrical outlets, microwave, residential refrigerator, etc. in this type of install, the Magnum inverter is also the battery charger. There is no converter installed.

I added a small dedicated inverter and transfer switch to also power my residential refrigerator without powering everything else. I didn’t want to power everything else in the trailer while going down the road.

I understand your desire to run two 3012’s in parallel to power the coach, but unless you are running a large lithium battery bank to allow running the air conditioners I would not go that route. There would still be additional steps required to make this work electrically. If you don’t plan to run air conditioners from the batteries this would be way overkill and not cost effective. With a single hybrid 3012, I can run anything and everything in the trailer off any size power source. The exceptions to this the are my air conditioners and my 240 volt clothes dryer. I can run one air conditioner and sometimes two from a 30 amp plug. If I have less Han 30 amp, then no air conditioners are available. There are some things I can do to make this possible, but I am waiting for my warranty to run out before I go down this road.

Is the main panel still balanced load wise? For example 2 AC's on one leg, 1 AC and hot water heater on the other?
I guess without seeing it it is a bit hard to visualize the wiring.

My thoughts with two hybrids was one on each leg, but not for the purpose of trying to run AC units off of the batteries.
But, the hybrid feature could be beneficial on the many times we are on 30 amp service and that one extra load pops up and trips the breaker.

In your opinion, is adding the large inverter option cost effective over doing it your self after the build?

My idea was to use at least one 3012 but instead of a sub panel just feed the inverter with either the A or B line in and pass through to the matching side of the main panel.

I see some value in having factory installed inverters, but if it looks like I would go and re-do some of the installation, why not just start from scratch?

[ewacowboy]

FWIW....I just installed a 6 panel system on my friend's toy hauler - basically to help him out but also to see what would be involved with my install I'm planning this spring on our 38RSSA.

We sold the black batteries that came with our DRV on Craigslist and replaced with Lifeline AGMs. The last set of Lifeline batteries we had lasted 11 years, so it was a no-brainer for me. We had the Magnum 2812 installed in our coach and had DRV install 4 gauge wire with the "solar prep". The wires terminated behind the batteries on the off-door side compartment, so I re-routed them over the generator compartment to the off-door side where the ME2812 is mounted.

There is room on the generator compartment wall next to the ME2812 to mount a solar controller, which is where you want to mount it (as close to the batteries as possible). Discussions with Magnum Energy concluded that the PT-100 would not work for our purposes so we have decided to go with the Victron MPPT controller from AM Solar - this is the controller we mounted in the toy hauler and it works well. We're also going to install the SF-180 solar panels from AM Solar....which is what we installed on the toy hauler. AM Solar has been very helpful with our questions and recommendations and I highly recommend for DIY installs.

Chad's install is really impressive and he's got some good information, so he's a good source as well....I'd heed any advice he's got. All in all I'd say do it yourself and save a bunch of money. It's really not that hard.

[cloud william]

Heiser252: You said that DRV splits the two battery pairs such that the standard 12 volt connections go to the off-door side compartment and the inverter connections go to the door side compartment. Does this mean the two 6V battery pairs are not wired together in parallel? I was going to connect my solar charge controller outputs directly to the free terminals of both battery pairs, which I thought there would be one in the door side and the other in the off-door side if they were wired in parallel. By doing this I would be connecting the solar array directly to the batteries (DC coupling) and thus bypass the inverter. That way if the inverter fails I can still charge my batteries, I just won't be able to power any 110V AC equipment, but I could still power anything 12V DC, including the jacks and slides. Thoughts?

[heiser252]

Originally Posted by cloud william

Heiser252: You said that DRV splits the two battery pairs such that the standard 12 volt connections go to the off-door side compartment and the inverter connections go to the door side compartment. Does this mean the two 6V battery pairs are not wired together in parallel? I was going to connect my solar charge controller outputs directly to the free terminals of both battery pairs, which I thought there would be one in the door side and the other in the off-door side if they were wired in parallel. By doing this I would be connecting the solar array directly to the batteries (DC coupling) and thus bypass the inverter. That way if the inverter fails I can still charge my batteries, I just won't be able to power any 110V AC equipment, but I could still power anything 12V DC, including the jacks and slides. Thoughts?

Yes, the battery pairs are wired together in parallel. They are connected, but still somewhat separate. If you go with the BMK, the shunt is wired into the door side pair of batteries with the inverter. When it is wired this way, it doesn’t measure the usage of the 12 volt draws wired directly to the off door side pair. In other words it doesn’t measure any of the draws from the 12 volt power panel, jacks or slide motors.

What you are proposing to do with your solar wiring is the correct way to wire a 12 volt connection. The positive connection should go to one side of the battery bank and the negative connection should go to the other side of the battery bank. It is the way all of the connections in the trailer should be.