Water Softener

[Skywrench]

Originally Posted by Tuscany 40

Check your appliance manuals, prior to connecting to a water softener. One of ours specifically recommends against. Also, CLR is magic for removing those spots and build up.

Can you please specify which appliance? Brand name etc?

[Travelin' Texans]

Originally Posted by Tuscany 40

Check your appliance manuals, prior to connecting to a water softener. One of ours specifically recommends against. Also, CLR is magic for removing those spots and build up.

Another 1st!
Which appliance?
Not sure how better quality water would harm any appliance?

[abjbrtd]

The icemaker in our sticks and bricks Whirlpool refrigerator says NO watersofterner.
We're on a well and use lots of filters.

[Porkchop]

I have Whirlpool in the house and RV. Just looked=neither says that. Weird

Bill

[rynosback]

Originally Posted by Porkchop

I have Whirlpool in the house and RV. Just looked=neither says that. Weird

Bill

Bill, what are you saying? Fake News?

[saddlesore]

Have Splendide vented combo & a Samsung fridge in our coach.. No mention about not using add on water softeners..
Splendid Does suggest using fabric softener tho

[Travelin' Texans]

LG fridge in the house & had a Norcold in the RV with ice maker neither mention anything about a water softener & both make nice clear ice cubes.
Shower doors, faucets, laundry & dishwasher all work great & no water spots with the softner in both the house & RV.

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by mjdougherty

I always take care to lay the hose out in a big curve, rather than coiled up, because that will prevent excess pressure drop under flowing conditions. Use the shorter hose whenever possible.

Length, diameter, fittings/appliances and elevation affect flow rates and required pressure to meet the flow required, not curves and coils.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Porthole

Length, diameter, fittings/appliances and elevation affect flow rates and required pressure to meet the flow required, not curves and coils.

In closed channel flow, it takes energy to change the direction of the fluid. In close channel flow, there is always surface friction between the fluid and its container and the friction is greater when the fluid is forced to change direction. Basic ME311 (fluid mechanics) for mechanical engineers.

[Travelin' Texans]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

Another 1st!
Which appliance?
Not sure how better quality water would harm any appliance?

Originally Posted by Beau388

In closed channel flow, it takes energy to change the direction of the fluid. In close channel flow, there is always surface friction between the fluid and its container and the friction is greater when the fluid is forced to change direction. Basic ME311 (fluid mechanics) for mechanical engineers.

Yea!
That explains everything!!!!!!

[Porkchop]

That's exactly why I went to Electrical Engineering School instead!! We change direction 60 times every second with little to no increase in friction.

Bill

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by Beau388

In closed channel flow, it takes energy to change the direction of the fluid. In close channel flow, there is always surface friction between the fluid and its container and the friction is greater when the fluid is forced to change direction. Basic ME311 (fluid mechanics) for mechanical engineers.

How much more energy does it take to push 5 gpm through a 5/8" hose at 50 psi from a gentle curve to a coiled hose?

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Porthole

How much more energy does it take to push 5 gpm through a 5/8" hose at 50 psi from a gentle curve to a coiled hose?

Assuming the interior the hose is very smooth (new) and the hose is 50 ft long and coiled into a 3 ft dia coil the total loss (5 gpm @50 psi) would be 1.343 psi at the end. Hose fittings are not calculated as they are not known.

[frankgtx]

Originally Posted by Porkchop

That's exactly why I went to Electrical Engineering School instead!! We change direction 60 times every second with little to no increase in friction.

Bill

The smallest influence comes from the fact that the electrons have to be redirected. As the mean free path of electrons in a wire is of the order of just a few atoms, and the drift speeds more in terms of mm/s, this effect is nearly immeasurable. But the bend will heat up just a little bit more than the rest of the wire.

More severe is that sharply bending a wire will distort the material, inducing stress, and changing grain boundaries, and that will increase the resistance.

Another effect comes from the magnetic field that the current causes. Suppose you make a 180° bend, now currents are flowing opposite to each other. That will lead to a repulsive force between the wires. The electrons as a result will have a lower drift speed, so a higher resistance.

It’s all just miniature effects, but they do exist.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by frankgtx

The smallest influence comes from the fact that the electrons have to be redirected. As the mean free path of electrons in a wire is of the order of just a few atoms, and the drift speeds more in terms of mm/s, this effect is nearly immeasurable. But the bend will heat up just a little bit more than the rest of the wire.

More severe is that sharply bending a wire will distort the material, inducing stress, and changing grain boundaries, and that will increase the resistance.

Another effect comes from the magnetic field that the current causes. Suppose you make a 180° bend, now currents are flowing opposite to each other. That will lead to a repulsive force between the wires. The electrons as a result will have a lower drift speed, so a higher resistance.

It’s all just miniature effects, but they do exist.

I remember my days in the high power EE lab. Big 1x3" buss bars caring 440 volt 3 phase. The whole world had a 60 cycle buzz when the prof turned the power on.

[Porkchop]

Assuming the interior the hose is very smooth (new) and the hose is 50 ft long and coiled into a 3 ft dia coil the total loss (5 gpm @50 psi) would be 1.343 psi at the end. Hose fittings are not calculated as they are not known.


I'm going to suggest the pressure loss is directly related to the 50 ft. of hose and has nothing to do with the gentle curve of the hose.

Bill

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Porkchop

Assuming the interior the hose is very smooth (new) and the hose is 50 ft long and coiled into a 3 ft dia coil the total loss (5 gpm @50 psi) would be 1.343 psi at the end. Hose fittings are not calculated as they are not known.


I'm going to suggest the pressure loss is directly related to the 50 ft. of hose and has nothing to do with the gentle curve of the hose.

Bill

A rubber hose is not in the list of entering arguments, so I used a 1/2" DOM steel pipe with no fittings.

[Travelin' Texans]

Suffice to say the average rver that doesn't carry sensitive closely calibrated digital water pressure gauges WILL NOT notice the minimal pressure drop in 50' of hose whether coiled, curved or straight.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

Suffice to say the average rver that doesn't carry sensitive closely calibrated digital water pressure gauges WILL NOT notice the minimal pressure drop in 50' of hose whether coiled, curved or straight.

Very true

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Assuming the interior the hose is very smooth (new) and the hose is 50 ft long and coiled into a 3 ft dia coil the total loss (5 gpm @50 psi) would be 1.343 psi at the end. Hose fittings are not calculated as they are not known.

That did not answer the question.

All pipe, hose etc has some amount of friction loss whether fluid or gas.
And as far as RV'ing goes - a gentle curve versus coiled hose is an immeasurable difference.

And 'coiled' as in not wrapped on a reel where the inner wraps may very well be collapsed some.

Originally Posted by Beau388

A rubber hose is not in the list of entering arguments, so I used a 1/2" DOM steel pipe with no fittings.

Guess I should have read further down the thread.