Who has an AUTOFORMER? Do you like it?

[Porthole]

Yeah, that's not correct either.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Porthole

Yeah, that's not correct either.

OK, educate us then.

[galOnTheGo]

wow, sure is a lot of bickering on this thread from what i am reading. just like ..., everyone has an opinion.

anyway, I learned something here, never heard of an AUTOFORMER before. looked it up, read some stuff. from what I can determine, they are for those who are hooked up in RV parks with questionable service, or where service may be highly utilized, which may cause problems when drifts in current / voltage occur. good so far? furthermore...
Technically, there is no ban. NFPA says that autoformers shouldn't be used in RV parks, but they're not an enforcement agency. (That is a quote.)

ok, as for us, we are not connected much, don't frequent RV parks much. and, after a few years of operating this way, we have not incurred any problems.
we operate with a high-quality surge protector when connected and it has done us well. only one time did it bring to our attention a faulty line in a lower quality campground.

that being the case, unless someone on this thread presents some good reason to have one that has yet to be presented, we will proceed as usual.

thanks for the enlightenment.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by galOnTheGo

wow, sure is a lot of bickering on this thread from what i am reading. just like ..., everyone has an opinion.

anyway, I learned something here, never heard of an AUTOFORMER before. looked it up, read some stuff. from what I can determine, they are for those who are hooked up in RV parks with questionable service, or where service may be highly utilized, which may cause problems when drifts in current / voltage. good so far? furthermore...
Technically, there is no ban. NFPA says that autoformers shouldn't be used in RV parks, but they're not an enforcement agency. (That is a quote.)

ok, as for us, we are not connected much, don't frequent RV parks much. and, after a few years of operating this way, we have not incurred any problems.
we operate with a high-quality surge protector when connected and it has done us well. only one time did it bring to our attention a faulty line in a lower quality campground.

that being the case, unless someone on this thread presents some good reason to have one that has yet to be presented, we will proceed as usual.

thanks for the enlightenment.

Not that you're wayward (how would I know) or even a son - it just popped into my head. Carry on as you are.

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

OK, educate us then.

It’s all in the above supplied link.

QUOTE=16ACE27;422395]
That's because he statement isn't true, in the strict sense.
[/QUOTE]

It’s not true in any sense

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Real load sharing between AC sources is not voltage dependent, it is frequency dependent. But the inverter does not have the capability to directly change either the voltage or frequency supplied by SP, only to assume some real and reactive loads to minimize current draw from SP (which may increase line voltage).

Where did frequency dependence come in?
The inverter when supplementing does not minimize SP current draw, it adds to the available current.

If you have 30 amps available and you exceed 30 amps the inverter supplements the shore power by pulling from the batteries up to the inverter programmed limits. (With my inverter I have during a test had about 45 amps of draw on a 20 amp garage circuit, with the inverter pulling from the batteries.

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

So as long as line voltage from SP is above the "Qualified" low voltage setting, the inverter does nothing.

That feature on the xantrex allows full charge capacity providing the SP is above the qualified voltage. Below that voltage the inverter reduces charge output, down to zero if necessary. That’s a nice feature and something that has to be manually done with other brands.

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

The "Gen Support" assist is current dependent. It kicks in when the current from the input source (SP or generator) approaches the set limit.

This is correct with at least the 3 main brands.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Not that you're wayward (how would I know) or even a son - it just popped into my head. Carry on as you are.

There'll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest...
Don't you cry no more... NO!

Actually it should be "don't you cry ANY more", but sometimes lyrics writers ignore double negatives to make things fit.

Carry on!

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by DonandPatti

Getting ready to pull the trigger on getting an Hughes Autoformer but I wanted to check with you all before I do.

Any problems with it? Does it work as advertised? Let me know!!

Don
Maryland

Don.
This would be a good question at the rallies, you could have seen first hand their use and how some use them ‘hidden’.
The newer Hughes autoformer have additional features and connectivity features.
So if you were to decide to purchase I’d suggest getting new with the enhancements.

Personally I hardly ever use mine because of the inverter capabilities, but mine is an older version without the newer features.

Duane

[galOnTheGo]

thanks T&M, will do!

one thing I did not mention, the cost of the thing - $6XX - $47XX, WOW!!

WAYWARD - difficult to control or predict because of unusual or perverse behavior. hmmm, maybe.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Porthole

Where did frequency dependence come in?
The inverter when supplementing does not minimize SP current draw, it adds to the available current.

If you have 30 amps available and you exceed 30 amps the inverter supplements the shore power by pulling from the batteries up to the inverter programmed limits.

And how do you think it does that?
What makes the inverter supply the current instead of SP?
Isn't supplying extra current from the inverter minimizing extra current from SP? Preventing it from exceeding its limit?

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

1) And how do you think it does that?

2) What makes the inverter supply the current instead of SP?

3) Isn't supplying extra current from the inverter minimizing extra current from SP?

4) Preventing it from exceeding its limit?

1) Not by frequency.

2) For the inverter to supply current instead of SP either the SP would have to be disconnected or, ‘SP in’ is set to zero. SP has priority over inverted power.

3) The inverter (when supplementing) is adding to SP.
It is not ‘supplying current’ instead of SP.

if the SP limit is set at 30 then the inverter will add to the 30, not reduce the SP load.

4) SP is limited to what it is. If your limit is set to 30 and the load exceeds 30 then it it supplemented, added to by the inverter. It doesn’t reduce the existing 30 amp load.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Porthole

1) Not by frequency.

Yes, by frequency.

AC circuit theory is not the same as simple DC circuit theory, especially when analyzing sources in parallel.

AC circuits have both REAL and Reactive power. Both have current draw in an AC circuit. That's why real generator specs are in KVA, not KW. Power Factor determines the difference between KVA and KW. Most AC circuits have about a .8 lagging PF due to the inductive loads in the circuit (motors).

In AC sources in parallel, reactive power sharing is controlled by voltage settings on the sources.

In AC sources in parallel, real power sharing is controlled by the FREQUENCY settings on the sources.

To transfer real load from source A to source B, the frequency setting on source B must be raised.

One of the features of the inverter in question is its ability to adjust its reactive load to minimize total current draw when being used as a charger (as well as limiting charger output).


So there's a lot more going on than simply voltage and current.

Originally Posted by ducksface

Here's your chance to learn new things.

[rynosback]

Originally Posted by Porthole

Don.
This would be a good question at the rallies, you could have seen first hand their use and how some use them ‘hidden’.
The newer Hughes autoformer have additional features and connectivity features.
So if you were to decide to purchase I’d suggest getting new with the enhancements.

Personally I hardly ever use mine because of the inverter capabilities, but mine is an older version without the newer features.

Duane

What enhancements? I read their website and it does the same thing mine does that I bought like 6 years ago.

[Porthole]

Originally Posted by rynosback

What enhancements? I read their website and it does the same thing mine does that I bought like 6 years ago.

I have an older version, just three LEDs showing line in, nothing else.
Also not a replaceable surge module.

[rynosback]

Originally Posted by Porthole

1) Not by frequency.

2) For the inverter to supply current instead of SP either the SP would have to be disconnected or, ‘SP in’ is set to zero. SP has priority over inverted power.

3) The inverter (when supplementing) is adding to SP.
It is not ‘supplying current’ instead of SP.

if the SP limit is set at 30 then the inverter will add to the 30, not reduce the SP load.

4) SP is limited to what it is. If your limit is set to 30 and the load exceeds 30 then it it supplemented, added to by the inverter. It doesn’t reduce the existing 30 amp load.

You are very tolerant and kind in taking your time and effort to educate someone who chooses not to educate themselves.