85 octane question

[Bob Nodine]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I might have the ultimate
Octane disparity
Story

60 year old three two- barrel car. 60 year old carbs. Three carbs, only one has a choke.
Spent its life at 500 ft altitude using 100 octane leaded aviation gas(owned by a crop duster)
Recently came to live at 7,000 ft altitude and 91 octane pump gas.

That's a nine point spread and lab vs real octane numbers.

It hasn't missed a beat and does not detonate.(I dont know why other than they had it tuned wrong but it fits where it is now.)

Truthfully I thought it would require major work just to start.

So Duckey, is it a 1965 Pontiac GTO? Those bad boys had 3 two barrels with progressive linkage and the center carb was the full time carb. That's the one with the choke. If it was raining as you were cruising down the road and you pushed the accelerator to open the other two cabs the beast would loose traction and spin the rear wheels.

Nostalgia!

[Steve Beamer]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

We just traveled thru WY NE CO and see 85 for 15 to 30 cents less per gallon

Can this be used in our Ford engine vegas?

It lists what % ethenol you can use where your fill cap is.

Nevermind. This thread is about octane not ethenol percent. Ha! Oh well. Next time I'll read the thread further before responding.

[MJC62]

So, let's throw some more sheet in this game. Let's say your engine is still on the mfgr warranty, you are tooling around Colorado and you have an engine failure. Does Ford, Chrysler, GM etc. have to honor the warranty claim when you are using fuel that has an octane rating below their recommendations?
Way back in the mid 70's when I worked as a tech for Chrysler the auto industry was in the midst of switching over to unleaded fueled vehicles. The gas stations had both leaded and unleaded fuel. On several occasions we had customers that put leaded fuel in a vehicle and damaged the emissions systems, Chrysler did not honor warranty claims on those vehicles.
Now if someone from Ford or Jeep can show me in writing that they will honor a warranty claim if I am using fuel with less than the recommended octane, I will gladly gas up with the cheap stuff next time it's available. Till then I will err on the side of caution and buy the higher-grade fuel.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by MJC62

So, let's throw some more sheet in this game. Let's say your engine is still on the mfgr warranty, you are tooling around Colorado and you have an engine failure. Does Ford, Chrysler, GM etc. have to honor the warranty claim when you are using fuel that has an octane rating below their recommendations?
.

Do you mean the same Ford company that crows 3 year 36,000 miles warranty whichever comes first bumper to bumper; but don't tell you that the warranty starts when they ship the F-53 Chassis to the RV Mfg? So my brand new 2019 RV I purchased actually only had 21 months of actual warranty from Ford (that I never needed by the way). I made two trips to Colorado during those 21 months using 85 when available; so I took full responsibility because if damage were to occur to the engine due to 85 octane; I would not expect Ford to cover no differently than I don't expect then to cover any other defect I may see now that is within the 3 year 36,000 miles since I bought the RV brand new

Note: ( I have owned my RV 24 months)

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by Bob Nodine

So Duckey, is it a 1965 Pontiac GTO? Those bad boys had 3 two barrels with progressive linkage and the center carb was the full time carb. That's the one with the choke. If it was raining as you were cruising down the road and you pushed the accelerator to open the other two cabs the beast would loose traction and spin the rear wheels.

Nostalgia!

My signature thread is good place to talk about cars
But

It's a 1963 Thunderbird.
A lesser known six-pack.
Lesser known partially because the 1/4 mile time was 20.8 seconds and 11.2 seconds O-60mph at 7mpg in town.
Late 62 to early 63, they only made a few.

I'm more of a Catalina guy than a gto guy.
I had a great big block teal green 64 Catalina convertible with Bonneville trim when I was 16.
One of my 'flip' cars. I hated selling that one and it set my like for mega-engined luxury cars.
And
As now
I didn't care much about fuel mileage(though a few 6mpg cars couldn't be trusted to make it station to station and were relegated to 'date nights'.).
And
As now
My gas guzzlers had a pet car which got much better mileage and used for 50 mile trips.
Just like
Most electric car people have a pet gas car for 'real life' use(though you have to wring this fact out of them).

'Offsetting your carbon offset since 1963'

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by MJC62

So, let's throw some more sheet in this game. Let's say your engine is still on the mfgr warranty, you are tooling around Colorado and you have an engine failure. Does Ford, Chrysler, GM etc. have to honor the warranty claim when you are using fuel that has an octane rating below their recommendations?
Way back in the mid 70's when I worked as a tech for Chrysler the auto industry was in the midst of switching over to unleaded fueled vehicles. The gas stations had both leaded and unleaded fuel. On several occasions we had customers that put leaded fuel in a vehicle and damaged the emissions systems, Chrysler did not honor warranty claims on those vehicles.
Now if someone from Ford or Jeep can show me in writing that they will honor a warranty claim if I am using fuel with less than the recommended octane, I will gladly gas up with the cheap stuff next time it's available. Till then I will err on the side of caution and buy the higher-grade fuel.

SO that was 40 years ago. There has been some advancement in technology since then.

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by ducksface

63 thunderbird.
A lesser known six-pack
Partially because the 1/4 mile time was 20.8 seconds and 11.2 seconds O-60mph at 7mpg in town.

I'm more of a Catalina guy than a gto guy.
I had a great 64Catalina convertible with Bonneville trim when I was 16.
One of my 'flip' cars. I hated selling that one.
And
As now
I didn't care much about fuel mileage,
And
As now
My gas guzzlers had a pet car which got much better mileage.
Just like
Electric car people have a pet gas car for 'real life's use.

Like Jay Leno said:" We love electric car owners; leave more gas for the rest of us".

[MJC62]

Originally Posted by HMCSW

SO that was 40 years ago. There has been some advancement in technology since then.

The point 40 years ago and the point today is if you use fuel that is not recommended by the manufacturer you may be void your warranty. That fact has nothing to do with advancements in technology.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by HMCSW

SO that was 40 years ago. There has been some advancement in technology since then.

You bring your vehicle into a dealership with engine damage/failure or any part of the drive train under warranty and they most certainly will follow directions from the manufacture to look for anything that you may have done to void that warranty and that includes a fuel analysis.

[Jimbo56]

Scuba, after being thoroughly entertained by all the rocket science in the aforementioned posts, this is what I gleaned from it all.

1) Don’t confuse E85 gas with 85 octane gas
2) Use 87 octane unless you’ll be in 4000 and above altitudes for a while.
3) If 10 to 15 cents a gallon really makes a big difference in whether you go or not, you better stay home
4) Whether 2 bucks a gallon, or 4 bucks a gallon, I’m going to my next destination

[sportcoupe]

Bottom line is

1. you can run whatever octane you want
2. listen to internet engineers that state 2 points less is nothing (i.e. 85 vs 87)
3. go by what is published in your owners manual by Ford engineers

[Scubawise]

27 degrees in Fritch Texas

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by sportcoupe

Bottom line is

1. you can run whatever octane you want
2. listen to internet engineers that state 2 points less is nothing (i.e. 85 vs 87)
3. go by what is published in your owners manual by Ford engineers

Excellent great find

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by sportcoupe

Bottom line is

1. you can run whatever octane you want
2. listen to internet engineers that state 2 points less is nothing (i.e. 85 vs 87)
3. go by what is published in your owners manual by Ford engineers

You might wish to publish which Ford engine chassis and year that came from from?

I think it is clear or the same that they are designed for minimum 87 octane. But my manual for a 2019 F - Series Super Duty Class A Motorhome and Commercial Chassis reads differently.

i.e. it does not say to use E85 like your does.
it specifically says "do not use fuel containing more than 15% ethanol or E85" But note; it does not specifically state to not use 85 octane

It does say for "best performance octane 91 or higher is recommended."

But my favorite; it says "Do not be concerned if the engine sometimes knocks lightly, However if it knocks heavily while using fuel with the recommended octane rating; contact an authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage."


So when I read the double talk and legalese Ford is basically saying that engine damage is possible for all fuels and octanes, if so; light knocking is fine, but heavy knocking can be brought in to Authorized Dealer if you have the RECOMMENDED FUEL; which is octane 91 or higher, and it is only paid for if you have warranty which I am sure 90% of us don't have time remaining on their joke 36 month warranty that is on average only 24 months.

Without the science, my previous point is and remains that I have always used 85 or 86 when 87 was not available for any Car, SUV and now RV; never had any issues and bought it based on availability not on actual feet. i.e. I think Amarillo is 3,000 ft?

With what you call Internet science ( it should be noted that we have not been presented any Ford science yet), the differential is either negligible or accounted for due to the density of air.

Then I conclude with common sense, unless the Ford engineers have different engines for people living in Colorado or similar ( who the uses 85 octane?, and are we to believe that everyone in Denver buys higher than 87 octane; and if they don't; are there really a high number of engine failures in Denver?

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

27 degrees in Fritch Texas

16°f at the Grand Canyon.


(In the voice of the pbs announcer)
The 87 not 85 do or die rule
Brought to you by the

'3,000 mile oil change, never question a Corporation' flock.
A nonprofit fan club of
Wesayso Corporation
A subsidiary of
Sheepsaybah Unlimited

'Spreading the self-established but unproven proclamations of mid-management since 1903'

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

27 degrees in Fritch Texas

Wow are you winterized?, if you go into Amarillo, go buy the 72 oz steak at Big Texan https://www.bigtexan.com/ I am guessing you about about 5 hrs from Dallas / Ft Worth?

Safe travels, gas prices is dropping like around brick around here. It was $2.45 at a 7 Eleven in Mesquite Texas yesterday.

[Travelin' Texans]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

27 degrees in Fritch Texas

Curious!
Why on earth would you be in Fritch Texas?????

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Wow are you winterized?, if you go into Amarillo, go buy the 72 oz steak at Big Texan https://www.bigtexan.com/ I am guessing you about about 5 hrs from Dallas / Ft Worth?

Safe travels, gas prices is dropping like around brick around here. It was $2.45 at a 7 Eleven in Mesquite Texas yesterday.

Wow, nice: still $3.89 and higher here in the People' Republic of the west coast.

[sportcoupe]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

You might wish to publish which Ford engine chassis and year that came from from?

I posted for the OP based on their rig, a 2020 Vegas with the V10 on E series chassis.

The 7.3L V8 on E-Series chassis reads the same.

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Then I conclude with common sense, unless the Ford engineers have different engines for people living in Colorado or similar ( who the uses 85 octane?, and are we to believe that everyone in Denver buys higher than 87 octane; and if they don't; are there really a high number of engine failures in Denver?

If you stay at high elevation, you can possible run 85 while there, just as long as you don't leave the high elevation during the tankfull.

You can spend 12 mins and dig into the details on why in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJyd6C99_3g

.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Wow are you winterized?, if you go into Amarillo, go buy the 72 oz steak at Big Texan https://www.bigtexan.com/ I am guessing you about about 5 hrs from Dallas / Ft Worth?

Safe travels, gas prices is dropping like around brick around here. It was $2.45 at a 7 Eleven in Mesquite Texas yesterday.

Wow just wind chill 27..going to Ballinger then Corpus Christi