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Old 12-15-2017, 12:50 PM   #1
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Model: Mirramar 34.2
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THOR #6138
Am I doing something not right

About a month ago I parked my Miramar in the shed for the winter and plugged it in. Turned off the store switch.Charger was hummin all was well. Yesterday i went to start it and nothing. Had tried the Gen first but all was dead not even a click. The house lights worked. Checked the charger in the back nothing going on there at all. Not even the light. I put my charger on the engine battery and heard a couple of things turn on right away. Went to the back and the charger there is just a hummin again. What the hell, I say. Go back inside and start the Gen and the motor as if there was never a problem. Battery charger wasn’t on long enough to make a difference on a dead battery so what’s goin on. It’s like I opened a relay or something. Any ideas? Thanks.
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:54 PM   #2
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THOR #1765
In my Axis, if you turn the Use/Store switch to off, it separates the house batteries from the charger and the batteries do not charge. Try turning the Use/Store to Use and see if your batteries charge.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:07 PM   #3
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Shortly after taking delivery of our 2017 Axis, the store switch went bad and had to be replaced under warranty. Our nverter/charger also was bad and was replaced. I believe the store switch has to be on when unit is plugged in to shore power for batteries to charge. If they don't when switch has been left on, then you may need to replace the switch. Good luck!
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:13 PM   #4
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Absolutely -- USE/STORE must be in USE for the batteries to charge. If you have it in STORE with shore power applied or the generator running, you will have a false sense of security because EVERYTHING in the RV will work. That's because the converter is providing AC and DC power to all the electrical circuits in the RV.

What won't happen is that no DC current will be routed to the batteries to keep them charged. Whether you are driving down the road, have shore power connected and on, or your generator is running -- the USE/STORE must be in USE for the batteries to stay charged.

Very few dealers ever tell new owners this during the PDI -- probably because even they don't understand what charges the batteries, under what conditions, and when.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:21 PM   #5
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It seems that the "Use/Store" button is always tripping somebody up, when the time to park the rigs comes along...
Perhaps the Dealers need to expand upon the limited explanation of their use, when delivering a rig.
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:36 PM   #6
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The use/store switch, as already said must be in use for the batteries to charge, but that is different than any other motorhome I have owned, in which batteries would always charge when plugged into shore power, but the 12 volt disconnect would kill power to the interior. That may be why dealers don't tell buyers, they may well not understand how it works. I had to discover it on my own, well, with some help from this forum.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:53 PM   #7
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So what use does it actually have.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:59 PM   #8
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I don’t really think my batteries were dead. The light all came on bright in house and when I put the charger on the engine battery it seemed to wake up the MH charger. In less than two minutes I had enough power to spin the Gen and the engine.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fchabotski View Post
So what use does it actually have.
The intended purpose of the USE/STORE switch is that in "STORE" position most loads are removed from the batteries, for when you are not connected to external power and the RV will not be used for any length of time.

In reality, even when in "STORE" position there will be a few things still connected to the batteries, such as radio memory backup for example.

But if you have AC power connected to the RV while in storage, leave the switch in "USE" and the batteries will stay charged.
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom N3EQF View Post
The intended purpose of the USE/STORE switch is that in "STORE" position most loads are removed from the batteries, for when you are not connected to external power and the RV will not be used for any length of time.

In reality, even when in "STORE" position there will be a few things still connected to the batteries, such as radio memory backup for example.

But if you have AC power connected to the RV while in storage, leave the switch in "USE" and the batteries will stay charged.
Yup!
If you're plugged into AC: put it in "Use"
If you're not: Use the "Store" setting.
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:55 PM   #11
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When you are driving down the road you also need to be in USE. If not, power to the radio will be inhibited; and therefore, the rear cameras will not work. In addition, if the house batteries need some charging it will use detection circuits to provide charging current from the engine-driven alternator to the house batteries.

Rule of thumb -- when RV is not is use (basically stored) the switch should be in STORE unless the RV is plugged into shore power while in storage.

When in the STORE position, the house batteries are electrically isolated from the DC circuitry of the RV. It is not the same as PHYSICALLY disconnecting the batteries because there are some functions still physically connected to the batteries. This is why if you leave it in STORE and never periodically check the status of your batteries, they will eventually go dead. There is some parasitic decay of the battery charge state when the USE/STORE switch is in STORE.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:28 PM   #12
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Perhaps the word "Store" is a confusing word and it should be "Stow" as we used in the Navy or maybe just "Off".
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mcr1010 View Post
Perhaps the word "Store" is a confusing word and it should be "Stow" as we used in the Navy or maybe just "Off".
The problem is that your vehicle can be stored; yet your use of that switch is more dependent upon the use (or lack of use) of an external power source.
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:18 AM   #14
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I just got my first MH last week, so this was all new to me.

So, I really appreciate the education.

I even went back thru my owners manual and I can't find where it tells you this.

I'm assuming the "Main Battery Disconnect" switch in my unit is the same as a USE/Store switch....does that sound right?
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:18 PM   #15
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THOR #1765
Someone with a Windsport should answer this question, but if the main battery disconnect switch is inside the coach, then it probably is the one. In the Axis/Vegas, the Use/Store switch is just inside the door as you enter. That should be where the switch is so you can reach it and turn on the interior lights. In the Axis there are two other 50 amp circuit breakers - one in the house battery box and one in the front of the engine for the chassis battery. In my boats, I had a “main battery switch” which was a 3 way switch with a red handle that could connect and disconnect the starting and house batteries. I put one of those in one Of my RVs. Our use/store switch is a rocker switch which says Use/Store.
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:59 PM   #16
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There's two unexplained mysteries here:

1- If you are plugged in with the USE/STORE switch in STORE why wasn't your converter still supplying DC power to the House loads?
My guess is that the miniscule current draw from the detectors, etc caused the converter to shut off/go to sleep and since no voltage was ever detected on the DC bus, it never woke up.

2- Why did the chassis battery die/not work? The USE/STORE switch should have no affect on its use. I can see why the engine started once the house batteries were on line and the converter charging, the cross-connect solenoid was energized essentially putting the coach in "emergency start".

I would be more concerned about #2.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:26 PM   #17
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THOR #1765
fchabotski said that his house lights were still working so the converter was supplying power to the 12v systems - as it should even with the Use/Store in Store. However, the house and chassis batteries are on the other side of the Use/Store switch - at least in the Axis. So neither the house or chassis batteries will charge under shore power or generator if the Use/Store is in store. If the engine is started with the Use/Store in Store, the BIRD will open the Trombetta but the two battery banks will not be hooked together because they are separated by the Use/Store switch. The chassis battery will charge but the house batteries will not.

Your Ace should work the same way, but with Thor you never know. It easy to check if you have a volt meter. Put the Use store in store, start the engine and see if the house batteries are charging. Turn the engine off and hook up shore power and see if either of the battery systems are charging.

If the Use/Store in in Store and the coach is left for any length of time, the house batteries will drain down. There are enough parasitic loads to make that happen - at least in the Axis. Some people have installed a disconnect switch at the battery. However, there is a 50 amp breaker in the battery box that does the same thing.
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Old 12-16-2017, 06:47 PM   #18
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THOR #2601
USE/STORE is really a poor name and a misnomer. Its purpose is to electrically connect and disconnect the house batteries. So USE = batteries connected, STORE = batteries disconnected.

Tfryman -- When shore power or the generator is providing 120 VAC, the converter IS providing AC and DC (from the converters DC rectifier) to the coach circuits to operate all the AC and DC functions in the coach -- except DC power is not going to the batteries when in STORE because the batteries are electrically disconnected.

This is why new folks get a false sense of security and often ask here on the forum, "how can the house batteries be dead when everything works in the coach?". When you operate the USE/STORE switch and you hear that "clunk" sound, that is the Coach Battery Disconnect Relay energizing and de-energizing. The USE/SRORE switch provides 12 DC to the solenoid of that relay. When that relay is open the batteries are disconnected from the converter.
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:11 PM   #19
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THOR #2601
Here is a picture of the Battery Disconnect Relay on my 2015 Vegas 24.1. On my floorplan this relay is located behind the grill in the under the refrigerator in the hallway. The relay is mounted on a bulkhead under the floor of the refrigerator compartment and it is a real PIA to find.

I don't know the location on other models or Vegas/Axis floorplans. The easiest way to find it is to have someone operate the switch from USE to STORE repeatedly and track the location of the relay clunking sound. If the relay isn't working then you probably ought to call Thor Customer Service and ask the location.
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:13 PM   #20
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I learned a valuable lesson on that, if you plug power to your rv then all is good no reason to cut the battery off switch for this is only for dormit stage so battery will not run down but when you have the power plugged up & cut the switch off you disconnect battery from start up mode, cut the switch back on & let battery charge then I guarantee it will crank
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