Another European RV is Coming...

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Fish and Dear

Basecamp was what I had in mind, but we also saw the NEST there. Both look like a lot of fun to drag into the woods with a Subaru and start singing folk songs while putting up your man bun.

The original Basecamp I did not like because it didn’t appear very functional and well thought out. It only had a door in rear (door was larger) that would maybe allow loading an ATV, motorcycle, or scooters inside. Not exactly sure what the intended use was, but if you had larger items in rear, then how did you get to living space at front of trailer?

The new revised floorplan adds a personnel door on side, which makes living space accessible without having to first unload toys at rear. At least you can get to kitchen and galley during day while traveling. You still can’t use bench seats that double as twin beds without first unloading larger toys.

Yeah, I could see the Basecamp working nicely for a young couple to haul mountain bikes behind a Jeep, or older couple to occasionally tow behind a Class B to take grandkids camping. It’s a good idea but like others have said, the high cost is hard to justify compared to other trailer options.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Chance

Meant “their” curbside. Sorry, bad attempt at humor.

After I responded to your post..."I got your meaning".

[IdahoPoes]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

https://www.curbed.com/2019/4/19/185...avan-nucamp-rv

One thing is for sure: it's cute...

$33K is the price tag? What are those blokes smoking?



Marshall

[Spookmobil]

I'm from Germany and if you compare European vans you guys need to know a few things about Europe: price per gallon is 6€ and up. A lot of the really neat roads and villages you will not be able to go if you are wider than 2,50m (most Class A are) or taller than 3,00 meters. Otherwise going through the Alps on the beautifully scenery roads - impossible. A lot of the RV sites too small for class A. Small campers are great for boondocking in Europe as well.

A European RV usually takes Diesel and if I calculated correctly does about 23 miles to a gallon.
If you take a European design but put a gasoline car underneath taking more fuel you are losing the environmental factor (less space but better milage). But I do agree that if you want to live in a RV or expect more room then the smaller European cars would not do it. But there are bigger RV's in Europe and they usually travel point to point and use their bikes or small towed cars to roam around.
What I like is the design of the cabinets in Europe. Self closing, locking devices that don't do a loud click when closing. Also weight is a big consideration in Europe - if you drive a RV with a car driver license it can't be heavier than 16500 pounds. So they do everything light weight and sadly the durability suffers. But European style with a solid wooden cabinets like in the States sound awesome.

[Bob Denman]

Welcome to the discussion... and the Forum!

[Chance]

With French company Rapido buying Roadtrek brand and manufacturing, and Thor owning Hymer, maybe we’ll get more choices in smaller sizes.

Rápido owns Westfalia, which may lead to new and innovative van designs in North America.

It would be great if either company built small European type Class As on American chassis, but I doubt that will happen as long as gas is cheap.


https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/erwin-h...kers-1.4398927

[Bob Denman]

Europe and North America are two dissimilar markets; with dissimilar needs.
One style rig may prove to be difficult to sell in the other market...

[Chance]

Motorhome sales are down 30%, so apparently they are having problems selling American RVs to Americans already.

With exception of Axis/Vegas, which is really a slightly downsized regular Class A, there is no small Class A on the market. And nothing that comes close to the most common Euro-size As.

If manufacturers don’t build them, and market their advantages, how will they know if there is demand?

The problem major manufacturers could face is that if they manufacture and highlight the advantages of smaller units, the marketing would oppose their larger units with higher profit margins.

If they marketed a Hymer-size Class A that gets 12 MPG, is easy to drive and park, has smooth walls and flush floors, handles and steers great without suspension upgrades, doesn’t require a toad, etc., what would the marketing campaign be implying about their other larger motorhomes?

I know there is a limited market for Hymer-size As, but marketing them without cannibalizing their larger units must be difficult.




https://www.rvbusiness.com/blog/rvia...y-decline.html

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Motorhome sales are down 30%, so apparently they are having problems selling American RVs to Americans already.

With exception of Axis/Vegas, which is really a slightly downsized regular Class A, there is no small Class A on the market. And nothing that comes close to the most common Euro-size As.

If manufacturers don’t build them, and market their advantages, how will they know if there is demand?

The problem major manufacturers could face is that if they manufacture and highlight the advantages of smaller units, the marketing would oppose their larger units with higher profit margins.

If they marketed a Hymer-size Class A that gets 12 MPG, is easy to drive and park, has smooth walls and flush floors, handles and steers great without suspension upgrades, doesn’t require a toad, etc., what would the marketing campaign be implying about their other larger motorhomes?

I know there is a limited market for Hymer-size As, but marketing them without cannibalizing their larger units must be difficult.




https://www.rvbusiness.com/blog/rvia...y-decline.html

Are they though? That article also mentions that registrations are up!? Wouldn't that imply that dealers are simply selling out stock that they have on hand and not ordering as many new units from the manufacturers.

[Bob Denman]

You make a good point: inventory on the lot; is costing the dealerships money for each Month that they sit there. .

[Chance]

Sure, but dealers have extra inventory because of slow sales. Plus inventories have to be somewhat in proportion to anticipated slower sales, so a correction is underway. I know it’s cyclical business as in the past.

What concerns me more is the high cost of motorhomes that would be out of reach to too many buyers if not for low interest rates and 20-year financing. Long term I have difficult time seeing this as sustainable. I personally think too many units are sold to new buyers who don’t know completely what they are getting into, and soon after try to get out of a poorly-made motorhome that’s worth less than they owe.

Smaller and cheaper units have been marketed primarily as “entry level” as if buyers will only buy them because they can’t afford more. Manufacturers seem to place little effort on improving design and quality of these units — maybe trying to push owners into upgrading to expensive units that much faster.

There is definitely a trend towards downsizing, and in my opinion manufacturers are struggling with product mix. That’s where European designs may help.

[Bob Denman]

That's not necessarily true...
When it comes time to order next year's rigs: the manufacturers will often "force" certain types and numbers of units into each dealership...

[The Gritz Carlton]

F Europe. The trend towards downsizing is nothing but the new generation that doesn't want to own anything, wants to share everything and seeks out tiny everything. Most of them won't stay on a job long enough to build any credit, eliminating their ability to finance anything. Many "mega motorhomes" are bought with cash...yep...us older guys that worked hard, saved all our life and enjoy the retired life. Bigger is better and it doesn't just mean bank accounts. Mega motorhomes aren't going anywhere. What you will see is mostly what you look for.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

That's not necessarily true...
When it comes time to order next year's rigs: the manufacturers will often "force" certain types and numbers of units into each dealership...

Manufacturers can give incentives, but they can’t force anyone to buy anything. And dealers aren’t going to buy as many rigs they know there is no demand for.

If it were as simple as forcing dealers, why are sales down 30%?

[The Gritz Carlton]

RV "sales" are not down...RV "shipments" are. Dealers are probably cutting back on inventory, who knows, but new RV registrations are breaking records. The RV industry is as strong now as it's ever been. 2019 is projected to be the 3rd highest year in history of RV sales.

Although RV shipments have moderated through the first quarter of 2019 following two consecutive years of record-setting shipment totals, the overall health of the RV market is strong. The retail RV market is robust with Statistical Surveys Inc. reporting that retail RV registrations through February were the second-best on company record, only behind last year. Additionally, there are encouraging reports of strong RV retail sales in March and early April.

[Bob Denman]

I agree: the market is strong, and there are plenty of choices available in North America...

Having said that: we did custom-order our Wayfarer.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

....cut.....

Having said that: we did custom-order our Wayfarer.

And built on European chassis.

Also smaller than before, so you downsized.



Reasons as to “why” downsizing trend is happening doesn’t change that it is. It’s just data.

[Bob Denman]

No... the "living space" for us humans; is larger...
The new rig is five feet shorter: but the old one had a nine-feet long garage hainging off it's tail...

[Bob Denman]

About that "European chassis"...
I always told the Missus that I'd buy here a Mercedes one day...

I just never thought that I'd have to buy her a house; in order to keep that promise!

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by Chance

Motorhome sales are down 30%, so apparently they are having problems selling American RVs to Americans already.



With exception of Axis/Vegas, which is really a slightly downsized regular Class A, there is no small Class A on the market. And nothing that comes close to the most common Euro-size As.



If manufacturers don’t build them, and market their advantages, how will they know if there is demand?



The problem major manufacturers could face is that if they manufacture and highlight the advantages of smaller units, the marketing would oppose their larger units with higher profit margins.



If they marketed a Hymer-size Class A that gets 12 MPG, is easy to drive and park, has smooth walls and flush floors, handles and steers great without suspension upgrades, doesn’t require a toad, etc., what would the marketing campaign be implying about their other larger motorhomes?



I know there is a limited market for Hymer-size As, but marketing them without cannibalizing their larger units must be difficult.









https://www.rvbusiness.com/blog/rvia...y-decline.html

I don’t think there is any worry about cannibalizing sales of larger units. I bought a 32 foot Class A because that’s what I want. If I’d wanted a class B I’d have bought one. If I’d wanted a 26 ft unit I’d have kept my class C. And I think it’s a mistake to think major manufacturers don’t do market research. Winnebago sold a nice 26 foot Vista until recently. They still sell Vistas, just not the short one. I don’t think they dropped it because they were selling too many of them. But these are just my opinions.