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Old 01-26-2021, 02:07 PM   #1
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THOR #13468
Axis/Vegas 24.1

I am sure this has been discussed, but my search failed to bring up anything relevant. Perhaps poor keyword selection on my part ...

We currently have a Winnebago Class C RV with a bedroom slide and the slide needs to be extended or there is no decent place to sleep. This has not generally been an issue but the other night we were boondocking near Yuma and the wind was so strong that the slide topper looked like it would tear itself apart, so we put in the slide and tried to sleep, without much luck. That was not the first time this has happened and we began to think that perhaps we should have a twin bed model, slide or not, so we would not run into this problem. And, as it turns out, there really are not that many twin bed RV models.

The first twin bed RV on my list is the Axis/Vegas 24.1 because I loved the floor plan when we saw it the last time we were looking for an RV, but when I checked the website of the very large, multi-city, dealership in this area (which is also a Thor authorized dealer) they had no Thor RVs at all in stock in any of their stores. When I asked a sales guy why there were no Thor products in any of their stores his answer was, and I quote directly from his text response:

That is a extremely inexpensive and not good build quality

We don't sell those any longer as they are always living in our service department.


So my question is whether or not this is correct. I know they are inexpensive, especially given the latest rise in prices, but what about the quality? Is it really an issue?
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:25 PM   #2
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Thor quality (along with all other RV brands) is fine as long as you are somewhat handy & can do most repairs yourself.
As been stated may times in this Forum and others, all RV quality is below average at best.
Anyone who owns an RV, needs to be aware of the fixes required to maintain it. That is, donít depend on the dealer or itíll be in the shop most of the time.

Bottomline..,I love my 24.1, I treat it like a hobby, & constantly do maintenance and upgrades on it.

Regarding the slide...
I love that fact that I do not need to extend my slide to sleep. We can pull over anywhere and inconspicuously sleep without being noticed.

That said, whenever Iím in a windstorm, I always retract my slide. The build quality is not the reason that the slide topper will rip off in gale force winds.

Good luck on your RV search. Let us know what you decide.
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:29 PM   #3
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Wow! Find another dealer.

Our 2014 Axis is going on 7 years now with only a few minor issues and one mediocre issue (a window leak that factory service fixed).

All RVs have issues, and many Thor's have issues. As far as Axis/Vegas issues: Download and read the crowd sourced owner's manual compiled on this site by a member found here:
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f1...nual-4961.html

You'll end up knowing way more than the dealer does about the unit.

Is it a perfect unit: no but it has been more than satisfactory for us.

Also keep in mind its a "kit" that you can modify as you desire once you pick it up. Then the quality is the quality you put into it.
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Old 01-26-2021, 03:13 PM   #4
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I just picked up my new Axis 24.1, so from that perspective:

The PDI had only one problem, the power driver's seat didn't work. The tech found a loose connection and fixed it in a few minutes.

There are several issues that affect MH quality: design, component selection, and assembly.

For design I think Thor does as good as anyone and lots better than some. There is little I see wrong with its overall design.

Component selection is middle of the road at best. I wish they had selected the Truma tankless water heater integrated with the furnace but they went with the cheaper Girard and Atwood. The absorption fridge is a run of the mill Dometic. The windows are single pane and don't open all of the way. The TVs are crappy Axxera. The list goes on.

I do like a couple of things. The galley is particularly nice with a sharp looking two burner stove top, a convection microwave mounted below and a big round sink. Wish it was a twin basin sink, but there probably isn't room.

The Rapid Camp central control system will be liked by some, not me. I like direct acting switches and LED level displays that rarely fail.

Assembly is ok. I haven't seen any obvious glitches. Most of the reported build quality problems are cabinets, drawers, etc that can be fixed by the owner with a couple of screws. The paneling is cheap printed stuff that is easily marred by chips. There isn't a real good solution to this without tearing apart the whole interior.

But the Axis would probably be $50+K cheaper than a Winnebago Via if they were still built- the most comparable short Class A. The Mercedes name and diesel represents about half of that difference.

Good luck with your search.

David
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:13 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DavidEM View Post
.....cut....

But the Axis would probably be $50+K cheaper than a Winnebago Via if they were still built- the most comparable short Class A. The Mercedes name and diesel represents about half of that difference.

.....cut....

Based on prices for other Winnebago products today, I agree the difference would be well above $50K. Winnebago Sprinter Bs and Transit-based EKKO Class C are pushing that limit already, and the Via was probably more expensive to manufacture (if done today).

In the case of Axis/Vegas, I think Thor probably has to keep costs down to remain competitive against similar-size Class Cs (I know Axis is a Class A). If they improved the units at the expense of significantly higher price, they may not have enough buyers. If anything, I’ve always thought they should stay true to original RUV marketing and introduce an even smaller and lower-cost Axis than the 24.1 floorplan.
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
If anything, Iíve always thought they should stay true to original RUV marketing and introduce an even smaller and lower-cost Axis than the 24.1 floorplan.
I think the OP has such a MH. It is a Ford Transit based Class C and at 24' is 1-1/2' shorter than the Vegas/Axis. That 1-1/2' makes a lot of difference. The bath moved aft to make it fit, the couch shortened, the galley squeezed, one side of the twin beds shortened, etc.

I think that the Vegas/Axis 24.1 layout is about as good as it gets in that size range. If you want a really low cost RUV, make it a Class B.

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Old 01-26-2021, 06:56 PM   #7
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I didnít see which Winnebago floorplan he has.

Regarding price, i would rank a Class B as most expensive for what you get (lowest bang for the buck). Buyer has to be willing to pay cost premium for other reasons like maneuverability, quiet, ease of parking and driving, fuel economy, etc. Class A are in the middle, and Class C are cheapest to manufacture (offer most for the money). Just saying that going to a Class B doesnít necessarily mean lower cost.

In my opinion Thor could build a smaller Axis floorplan if they wanted (apparently they donít). In Europe they build Hymer Class As much smaller than Axis 24.1, so itís obviously possible. I get that saving $10K or so wouldnít be much, but it would be an added bonus for those wanting a smaller motorhome for reasons other than lower price.
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Old 01-26-2021, 07:14 PM   #8
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Thor Baby!!


Here is our my first leaking, awing exploding, windshield eating pac man! Ha




Wonder who has it!
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Old 01-26-2021, 10:07 PM   #9
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I didnít see which Winnebago floorplan he has.
23T. That is the bedroom slide in the Winnebago Fuse. The RV has a dining room table with one bench seat (not two), a second short bench seat across the isle, a small kitchen, dry bath in the rear, bedroom slide in the rear and a fair amount of internal storage. It is a very nice RV, and aside from the sleeping issue when the slide is in it has been great. Not many issues in the time we have had it, great fuel economy with the diesel and the bedroom, which is the issue when the weather is bad, is really pretty comfortable when the weather is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Regarding price, i would rank a Class B as most expensive for what you get (lowest bang for the buck). Buyer has to be willing to pay cost premium for other reasons like maneuverability, quiet, ease of parking and driving, fuel economy, etc. Class A are in the middle, and Class C are cheapest to manufacture (offer most for the money). Just saying that going to a Class B doesnít necessarily mean lower cost.
My wife would prefer a B, but the new Bs don't have any external storage space and so we would have no place to put our chairs, the plastic containers for our dump hose, electric cord and extension, black water flush hose, normal water hose, leveling blocks and other stuff, so a B is no good for us.

When we were looking we almost bought the Winnebago Era, which is a twin bed model, but ended up not buying it for a couple of reasons. One is that there is no external storage and so no place for our stuff, and the other is that we did not like the placement of the bathroom in relation to the bedroom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
In my opinion Thor could build a smaller Axis floorplan if they wanted (apparently they donít). In Europe they build Hymer Class As much smaller than Axis 24.1, so itís obviously possible. I get that saving $10K or so wouldnít be much, but it would be an added bonus for those wanting a smaller motorhome for reasons other than lower price.
My personal opinion (but not my wife's) is that the 24.1 is the perfect floor plan for us. A nice large living area, a decent kitchen, a dry bath, and a bedding system that does not require that the slide be extended. My wife feels that it is too large and no matter what I tell her she is convinced that it is too high and too long. It is a bit longer than our C, and a bit higher, but neither by much.

On the other hand when we were RV shopping some years ago she sat in the living area of the 24.1 and just kept looking around commenting about how much room there was and how open it all felt. Then she walked out, looked at the roof and said she did not want to have to worry about the height of the trees when we were driving on secondary roads or in cities. But if we start looking again I am sure we will see some 24.1s (if there are any to be seen) and perhaps she can be convinced, so I wanted to know something about how dependable they were. We don't want it spending all of its time in the shop.
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Old 01-26-2021, 11:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AJMike View Post
On the other hand when we were RV shopping some years ago she sat in the living area of the 24.1 and just kept looking around commenting about how much room there was and how open it all felt. Then she walked out, looked at the roof and said she did not want to have to worry about the height of the trees when we were driving on secondary roads or in cities. But if we start looking again I am sure we will see some 24.1s (if there are any to be seen) and perhaps she can be convinced, so I wanted to know something about how dependable they were. We don't want it spending all of its time in the shop.
Over the past 7 years ours maybe spent 5 days in the shop total. 3 of those were at Thor's factory service (they fixed the window leak up better than new). It hasn't seen an RV shop in 4 years (other than for oil changes).

There is one campground we go to every year where the roads are very "forested in" (and we have some tree scratches to show for it--it adds character). Other than that we have very few tree marks

This past september we performed a 3-step Meguiar's wax treatment on it:
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Old 01-27-2021, 12:50 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by AJMike View Post
23T. That is the bedroom slide in the Winnebago Fuse. The RV has a dining room table with one bench seat (not two), a second short bench seat across the isle, a small kitchen, dry bath in the rear, bedroom slide in the rear and a fair amount of internal storage. It is a very nice RV, and aside from the sleeping issue when the slide is in it has been great. Not many issues in the time we have had it, great fuel economy with the diesel and the bedroom, which is the issue when the weather is bad, is really pretty comfortable when the weather is good.



My wife would prefer a B, but the new Bs don't have any external storage space and so we would have no place to put our chairs, the plastic containers for our dump hose, electric cord and extension, black water flush hose, normal water hose, leveling blocks and other stuff, so a B is no good for us.

When we were looking we almost bought the Winnebago Era, which is a twin bed model, but ended up not buying it for a couple of reasons. One is that there is no external storage and so no place for our stuff, and the other is that we did not like the placement of the bathroom in relation to the bedroom.



My personal opinion (but not my wife's) is that the 24.1 is the perfect floor plan for us. A nice large living area, a decent kitchen, a dry bath, and a bedding system that does not require that the slide be extended. My wife feels that it is too large and no matter what I tell her she is convinced that it is too high and too long. It is a bit longer than our C, and a bit higher, but neither by much.

On the other hand when we were RV shopping some years ago she sat in the living area of the 24.1 and just kept looking around commenting about how much room there was and how open it all felt. Then she walked out, looked at the roof and said she did not want to have to worry about the height of the trees when we were driving on secondary roads or in cities. But if we start looking again I am sure we will see some 24.1s (if there are any to be seen) and perhaps she can be convinced, so I wanted to know something about how dependable they were. We don't want it spending all of its time in the shop.

That is a nice floorplan, particularly in front. The living area is similar to many compact European motorhomes with forward-facing seats. The half-dinette side is similar to the brand new Ekko, except that without the side sofa it doesn’t convert to a bed (as far as I know).

Anyway, I’m curious if in your 23T the person sitting in passenger seat when rotated backwards has to sit on a cushion due to lower elevation? In video I saw what looked like a “booster” cushion on back of seat. I ask because I like the Ekko, but it has booster cushions for both driver and passenger seats when rotated. It’s one thing I don’t like about Transit Cutaway chassis — front seats rotated back end up too low.

For what it’s worth, I like the size of your 23T. At 24 feet it’s not only 18 inches shorter, but also 4” narrower and almost a foot lower than the Axis 24.1. Thor could easily build a shorter and narrower Axis of similar dimensions, but reducing height would be difficult without designing a new front cap.
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Old 01-27-2021, 01:07 AM   #12
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Anyway, Iím curious if in your 23T the person sitting in passenger seat when rotated backwards has to sit on a cushion due to lower elevation? In video I saw what looked like a ďboosterĒ cushion on back of seat. I ask because I like the Ekko, but it has booster cushions for both driver and passenger seats when rotated. Itís one thing I donít like about Transit Cutaway chassis ó front seats rotated back end up too low.
Yes. The RV came with the booster for the passenger seat. There is no booster for the driver seat because it does not rotate. And, in our RV, the passenger seat, although capable of rotating, also does not rotate because it just seems like too much trouble and there are only 2 of us, so the bench seat at the table is sufficient.

My wife thinks that the booster seat is just too hokey to use, and I guess I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
For what itís worth, I like the size of your 23T. At 24 feet itís not only 18 inches shorter, but also 4Ē narrower and almost a foot lower than the Axis 24.1. Thor could easily build a shorter and narrower Axis of similar dimensions, but reducing height would be difficult without designing a new front cap.
Personally I would prefer ours to be a bit longer. Not too much, but just another foot or two.

We were at the Quartzsite RV show last week and I browsed some of the Class As on display. There were no Cs on display at all, and all of the Class As except 2 were very large - 40 to 45 feet - and I looked at them and told myself that I would not want to be driving one of those. I suppose I could since I used to drive a truck for a living before I was able to go to college, but I just would not want to, and I can't see myself pulling into a boondocking location with a 45 foot $500,000 RV.

I told myself that I would not have one of those if they gave it to me free, but then decided that was silly. I could always sell it ...
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:54 AM   #13
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...cut...

My wife thinks that the booster seat is just too hokey to use, and I guess I agree.

....cut....

Thanks for sharing information on seats. Itís an issue that wouldnít exist if similar motorhomes were built on E-Series instead of Transit.

Hokey is a good word to describe how I feel also, but could overlook it if seats are comfortable enough. Itís one design detail I wanted to see and experience on Ekko at Tampa Super Show, but wasnít able to attend. Since cab seats make up such a large part of living room, they better be very functional. And sitting on cushions as primary seats on a motorhome priced over $150K just doesnít seem right.
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Old 01-27-2021, 02:53 PM   #14
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Thanks for sharing information on seats. Itís an issue that wouldnít exist if similar motorhomes were built on E-Series instead of Transit.

Hokey is a good word to describe how I feel also, but could overlook it if seats are comfortable enough. Itís one design detail I wanted to see and experience on Ekko at Tampa Super Show, but wasnít able to attend. Since cab seats make up such a large part of living room, they better be very functional. And sitting on cushions as primary seats on a motorhome priced over $150K just doesnít seem right.
I am surprised that there would be any Ekko models at any RV Show yet. I was under the impression that they would not be available to dealers, or even for show, until late March or April. I suspect that they are going to be very popular, given how much solar and how much battery power they come with, and I expect them to be very pricey.

RV prices have risen so much lately that I think we would have been locked out of the market had we not bought 2 years ago. The RVs I see for sale here in the Phoenix area are $20,000 higher than before, for pretty much the same RVs.
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:27 PM   #15
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I am surprised that there would be any Ekko models at any RV Show yet. I was under the impression that they would not be available to dealers, or even for show, until late March or April. I suspect that they are going to be very popular, given how much solar and how much battery power they come with, and I expect them to be very pricey.

RV prices have risen so much lately that I think we would have been locked out of the market had we not bought 2 years ago. The RVs I see for sale here in the Phoenix area are $20,000 higher than before, for pretty much the same RVs.
Mike, there was a picture of one posted on first day of Tampa Show.

Specs show standard is one large 315 Amp-hour lithium battery combined with 2,800-Watt Onan inverter generator. Or optional delete generator and end up with two 315 Ah batteries for 630 Ah total.

I would guess that one 315 Ah lithium battery adds less than $2,000 to total cost (since motorhomes have generator and lead batteries), which doesnít come close to explaining MH cost. Second alternator, solar, AWD EcoBoost, dual-pane windows, etc. start to add up. Still, Iíd bet a higher profit margin is built in.

Youíre right about higher costs which apply for many things, not just RVs. My son was just mentioning he paid nearly twice as much for lumber and steel for a couple of projects heís building at home.
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Old 01-27-2021, 04:12 PM   #16
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I generally agree with most of the comments.

I have owned my Vegas 24.1 for over a year and have driven 9,000 miles. The issues have mainly been cosmetic, cabinet repair, and the need for more sound proofing. I consider it a good value and would buy one again. No mechanical, electrical, or plumbing issues.

You will have above average maintenance/repairs with most RV's. My friends who have Tiffins have just as many repairs as my Thor. If you are not handy or not willing to learn about your RV and its' systems, you will become very frustrated. I don't mean you need to be a mechanic, but you do need to be willing to repair small problems and be engaged in its' maintenance and overall well-being. I view it as an enjoyable hobby. The build quality is not the same as an automobile, and likely never will be.
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by AJMike View Post
I am surprised that there would be any Ekko models at any RV Show yet.
The one in Tampa was apparently a prototype unit. There's a walk through of one here:
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:25 PM   #18
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24.1

Weíve had our 2018 Axis since new. Had batteries and converter replaced and a few other items serviced plus a wash at a nearby CW ó are always pleased with results. No significant ďqualityĒ items other than, maybe, the Girard water heater still a challenge to keep pressure high enough. Could be replaced. Always looking for smaller, I eliminate anything without a rear window, awkward TV placement, or a Murphy bed, though full wall slide is appealing. (Nexus Viper 25V looks good with slightly larger fridge.) With Bathroom shower and sink size my only real complaint on 24.1, not willing to give up legless awning, integrated steps, rear window, 3 TVs, 3-door pass-through rear storage, easy access throughout even with small slide closed, and little-mentioned twin bed width at 38Ē.
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:32 PM   #19
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Ö..and little-mentioned twin bed width at 38Ē.
I was pleasantly surprised by that as well. Our twin bed sheets fit perfectly.

David
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:21 PM   #20
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The one in Tampa was apparently a prototype unit. There's a walk through of one here:

Interesting comment made by Matt about other similar motorhomes to the Ekko at show, although I havenít heard mention of any MHs other than previous Cross Trek from Coachmen which is similar only in size, Transit chassis, and large bike garage. And I suppose higher dependence on battery energy for electricity, although thereís quite a bit of difference with that also. The EKKO at show is nearly twice as expensive as original Cross Trek (which wasnít AWD or EcoBoost).

That review wasnít very detailed and didnít even show movable wall in bathroom, one of the key features of the EKKO.


James and Stephany of the Fit RV, who purchased one already, did a second very long (65 minute) review of the EKKO showing some of the changes being made to prototypes. He includes lots of dimensions for anyone seriously thinking about buying one, or before spending money and time traveling to see one.

Review indicates they ordered a simple version without either awning, outdoor kitchen, and deleted generator. Video has some useful and practical information.

I hope thereís a new trend starting that leads to more options like EKKO and Cross Trek.

https://youtu.be/B670OoMxgYs
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