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Old 12-20-2015, 12:51 PM   #1
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Battery switching

Anyone have problems with switching from shore to use power on the 24.1 Vegas. If I am not on generator or 120v I have no lights. I have to start my engine to have 12v to start my generator. Do not think that is right.
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Old 12-20-2015, 01:14 PM   #2
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Is your Use/Store switch on Store?
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Old 12-20-2015, 01:53 PM   #3
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Couldn't that also be dead house battery(ies)? Lights may be coming on from converter power while on generator or shore power.

It's unlikely battery is so dead it won't turn on lights, but I'd rule that out nonetheless.
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Old 12-20-2015, 01:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Chance
Couldn't that also be dead house battery(ies)? Lights may be coming on from converter power while on generator or shore power.

It's unlikely battery is so dead it won't turn on lights, but I'd rule that out nonetheless.
Interior house lights in Axis/Vegas are LEDs thus need very little current to turn on. The battery would have to be really dead to not be able to light them. Not ruling that out but have to start with the low-hanging fruit first.
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Old 12-20-2015, 07:11 PM   #5
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Batteries are hot. Shore switch is on use when not connected to shore power correct? Shore power means cord from outside not generator, correct?
So, I have 12 volt if
1. Connected to shore power and shore power switch on.
2. Disconnect shore power and switch to use, try to start Genset and 12v dies.
3. I can start chassis engine and restore 12v after 30 secs. And then start genset.
4. If I kill genset, 12v dies.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:14 PM   #6
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Batteries? You have two house batteries or both house & chassis battery? In either case a hot battery is not a good sign.
That isn't a "Shore" switch its a "Store" switch: Put it on Use whenever you are using the camper and put it on "Store" when its in storage and not being used (in "Store" mode it disconnects the coach battery from a bunch of stuff--but not all ). You leave it in Use mode even when plugged in or using the genny to charge up the house battery.

If you can't start the genny or do anything when its in "Use" mode with no 120v plugged in externally either you have a wiring problem or dead batteries.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:35 PM   #7
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battery hot meaning charged

Sorry for my choice of words. When I am in USE and not plugged into 120v, then try to start my generator it will try to start then my 12v drops out and I cannot start my generator. The only way to get 12v back is to plug back into 120, or start my chassis engine and then I can start my generator after 30 secs. By the way I have two rv batteries.
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:58 PM   #8
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Sounds like the batteries are dead.
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Old 12-20-2015, 11:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by johncarolyn View Post



Batteries are hot. Shore switch is on use when not connected to shore power correct? Shore power means cord from outside not generator, correct?
So, I have 12 volt if
1. Connected to shore power and shore power switch on.
2. Disconnect shore power and switch to use, try to start Genset and 12v dies.
3. I can start chassis engine and restore 12v after 30 secs. And then start genset.
4. If I kill genset, 12v dies.
Just to be clear, when you say "hot" do you mean energized, as in electrically, or warm, as in thermally?

Much of what you describe indicates you might have dead batteries. The batteries may not necessarily be bad, but rather discharged. Check the water, and if OK, try to charge batteries for hours before running your tests again.

I don't have one of these RVs, but if you have been leaving the switch in STORE mode, and the house batteries don't charge up, they can go to zero charge after a few weeks or less. If so, they won't have the power to start a generator or power much else.
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:37 AM   #10
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I have a similar problem -
The store/use switch is a rocker switch - the way I understand it to work is when you engage the 'use' position it engages a solenoid that in turn makes the house batteries available. On mine when I engage the switch it does engage the solenoid but as soon as I release the switch the solenoid disengages. You can hear the solenoid.
Thor sent me a new solenoid - did not fix the problem. I have tried tracing wiring diagrams to figure out what is going on but no luck. My solution to date is to engage the rocker switch to use - insert a pen cover - yes pen cover to keep the switch engaged. You can hear the solenoid engage when you toggle to switch to house and you can also hear it disengage when you leave off the switch, on my anyhow. The other issue is that if the batteries are not in the use/house mode they will not be charged by the converter, generator or chassis motor.
I have also removed the solenoid and hard wired the batteries to 'use' because we do not store our RV. I since put it back until I figure more out. In either case if your switch is working like mine you may need to remove your house batteries to get a good charge.
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:29 AM   #11
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The classic sign of a discharged battery (not necessarily a dead or bad battery) is you can see 12V across the terminals when not being used, but drops to a much lower voltage (perhaps to zero) when applying a typical load on the battery.

A rule of thumb is Maximum Current = Minimum Voltage.

This is true whether we are discussing batteries, wiring, across a closed switch, shorts, and so on.

In other words, when a source is supplying the maximum current, it's output voltage will be minimum. In this case, the maximum current the battery can supply might only be a few mA.
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:30 AM   #12
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ETS: I'd pull out the switch and check the wiring to the back of the switch.
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ETS View Post
I have a similar problem -
The store/use switch is a rocker switch - the way I understand it to work is when you engage the 'use' position it engages a solenoid that in turn makes the house batteries available. On mine when I engage the switch it does engage the solenoid but as soon as I release the switch the solenoid disengages. You can hear the solenoid.
Thor sent me a new solenoid - did not fix the problem. I have tried tracing wiring diagrams to figure out what is going on but no luck. My solution to date is to engage the rocker switch to use - insert a pen cover - yes pen cover to keep the switch engaged. You can hear the solenoid engage when you toggle to switch to house and you can also hear it disengage when you leave off the switch, on my anyhow. The other issue is that if the batteries are not in the use/house mode they will not be charged by the converter, generator or chassis motor.
I have also removed the solenoid and hard wired the batteries to 'use' because we do not store our RV. I since put it back until I figure more out. In either case if your switch is working like mine you may need to remove your house batteries to get a good charge.
I wonder if Thor miswired it or are using a different solenoid - anything is possible.

On my coach, the solenoid is mechanical "latching", which means there is a terminal to turn it on, and a terminal to turn it off. This allows the solenoid to remain energized when boondocking without having to use any current to keep it energized.

But my rig is a few years old so I wonder if they discovered less expensive way to do things.

Otherwise, I'd simply replace the solenoid/switch with a good marine grade mechanical battery disconnect switch (which other RV manufacturers seem to use).



AKA the K.I.S.S. principle.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:05 PM   #14
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....cut....



AKA the K.I.S.S. principle.
Agree, although what is simple for one person may not be ideal for someone else -- either too simple or not simple enough. I like your idea of a manual disconnect switch; and if I had two 12-Volt house batteries wired in parallel, would prefer the model that allows connecting Battery #1, Battery #2, Battery 1+2, or OFF to house loads.

That switch may not be quite as simple as an "ON-OFF" (don't know what's in picture) but allows checking condition of each house battery under load on regular basis. Otherwise you could have a bad battery and not even know it, or suspect it but not know which one it is.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:09 PM   #15
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There are typically two kinds of switches used for boats; a 1-both-2 switch and a simple on-off switch.

They do look very similar, and of course, you would want to make sure you buy the on-off switch as typically RVs have their house batteries wired in parallel, where boats typically use a house/starting battery with the 1-both-2 switches.

But I have seen a bunch of different setups. My last boat had two engines, and two batteries and a single 1-both-2 switch. It was a weird setup with a single battery supplying both engines simultaneously. No, I would not have done it that way.

I had always wanted to upgrade that to three batteries (2 starting and one house), but we got rid of the boat before I was able to do an upgrade.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:18 PM   #16
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....cut.....

They do look very similar, and of course, you would want to make sure you buy the on-off switch as typically RVs have their house batteries wired in parallel, where boats typically use a house/starting battery with the 1-both-2 switches.

....cut.....
I'm not sure I follow, since the "1+2" or "both" position would connect the batteries in parallel for normal use.

Plus you can also run on either 1 or 2. Or disconnect both for storage.
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:28 PM   #17
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The 1-both-2 switch will indeed connect both batteries in parallel in the both position, but also use just battery 1 or battery 2. However, both batteries are charged only when the switch is in the both position unless you have a combiner or some other way to charge the disconnected battery, such as a typical marine 2 bank charger.

The typical use in a boat is to use battery 1 on day 1, battery 2 on day 2, and back to battery 1 on day 3, and so on. Rarely are both batteries used simultaneously, and there is often a 2 bank charger to keep both batteries charged (sometimes along with a combiner to keep the unused battery charged from the engine).

This gives you a un-used battery in reserve in case the main battery fails (or you turn the engine off in a little cove and run the battery down by listening to the stereo). The ability to have a reserve battery is paramount in a boat. If both batteries go dead, you might find yourself in quite a pickle.

The "both" position is rarely used in this scenario - only if you want to charge both batteries with the engine running and don't have a combiner. In this situation both batteries are usually combo deep cycle/starting batteries.

An alternate wiring configuration in a boat is to dedicate battery 1 to the house, and battery 2 for engine starting. The switch would always be on position 2, for engine starting. The only time to move the battery to position 2 is if the engine won't start on position 1.

The parallel position again can be used to charge both batteries when the engine is running. This setup takes some external wiring. Also, in this scenario, often the starting battery is not a deep cycle battery, where the house battery is.

In a RV, where both batteries are normally hardwired in parallel, the only thing required is an on-off switch.

However there is nothing wrong with, or prevents using a 1-both-2 switch used in the both position, or to keep a battery in reserve (notwithstanding the lack of ability to charge the disconnected battery without also having a combiner).

The main difference between a RV and boat setup is in a RV, both batteries are used for the house, while in a boat, both batteries are used for house and engine starting, or some variation of that.

With RVs, there is typically a separate relay for emergency engine starting, but you could just as well use a 1-both-2 switch for this purpose (but including a field disconnect option would be wise).
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:48 PM   #18
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Electrical trouble

So, I discovered the problem thanks to Thor techs Chuck and Brian. The batteries were wired wrong. I received a schematic from Thor and verified the correct connections and problem was solved. Had Camping World call me today and they discovered three 2016 units wired wrong as well. Thanks for all of yall's help.
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File Type: pdf TEE1071-02.pdf (83.6 KB, 728 views)
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:58 PM   #19
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Glad to hear.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:30 PM   #20
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Just in passing...I am fixing to order anti sway bars. The Vegas 24.1 chassis is a E350 correct?
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