Chassis battery

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Kbs

Hi
Thanks for the tip, would you identify which solenoid you replaced? I have a few relays but the only solenoid I know of is the starter.

Thanks again for the help, this is battery issue is quite frustrating as I am sure you know.

Relays and solenoid are the same thing depending on who is telling the story.

[Coveman2]

The way I know if the use/store switch is on or off is to unplug from shore power turn on the interior lights and then flip the switch and when the lights go out you know its off.
Remember to turn the lights.
Coveman2

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by cavie

Relays and solenoid are the same thing depending on who is telling the story.

Don't forget "contactors".

[Mo_Mike]

Originally Posted by Brett

I am sorry folks....I just need a simple honest answer please. I have a Thor 2018 25.1 replaced the sucky factory battery as it went bad when repairs were being made at Ganders in the Florida pan handle. I was under the impression that when the coach is plugged in the chassis battery is being trickle charged.....I this wrong or right. As my brand new battery after 3 weeks dead dead dead. Hooked my trickle charger up to it and back up.
Again my question does not the shore power via the coach trickle charge the chassis battery? If not you all just put a external trickle charge when stored?

Thank you

Brett Imlah
Pace, FL

We have a 2016 25.2 and discovered that the BIRD was wired backwards so the TROMBETTA wasn't engaging to charge the chassis battery. Dealer said "nope, everything was fine" but I still had a dead battery, even though plugged into to shore power. After correcting the BIRD connections my COACH batteries show a charge, then after a few minutes, my chassis battery also charges... I havent had a dead battery since I performed the corrective surgery...

[Hugh.vines@att.net]

Pictures for the newbys they will appreciate it

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by cavie

Relays and solenoid are the same thing depending on who is telling the story.

So is Boondocking or Dry Camping depending on who is writing the RV definitions, and where they were located when the claim was made to have been Boondocking or Dry Camping

I still chuckle every-time I see that thread

[rudyhehn]

I can send you info on the relay for the Palazzo but not helpful for you if you have another rig

[Mag]

Originally Posted by Brett

Thank you for you timely response. Your right on... I just checked my switch again... and it’s always on when hooked to shore power... I cannot shut it off... light is always on no matter how often I activate it. How does a person know if it’s in store or use mode. This is seriously irritating as I have no idea if the trickle charger is working. Right now I am just going to leave the battery tender on it every time I store. You know I love this coach but this one thing,,, is a thing. Seriously thank you again,

Brett

I have had the same issue. If I dont plug it in then it'll start every time, even if its been sitting for a couple of weeks. If I plug it in the store/use switch is on, which I can't shut off when connected to shore power, the chassis battery is dead and I have to "boost" it from the deepcells.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Brett

Thank you for you timely response. Your right on... I just checked my switch again... and it’s always on when hooked to shore power... I cannot shut it off... light is always on no matter how often I activate it.

Brett

Originally Posted by Mag

If I plug it in the store/use switch is on, which I can't shut off when connected to shore power,

The light is not an indication of the position of the USE/STORE switch; it is simply an indication that the 12 VDC buss has power. If you don't know the position of your USE/STORE switch, unplug the RV and look at the light (assuming you have charged house batteries): OFF = STORE, ON = USE.

[Mag]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

The light is not an indication of the position of the USE/STORE switch; it is simply an indication that the 12 VDC buss has power. If you don't know the position of your USE/STORE switch, unplug the RV and look at the light (assuming you have charged house batteries): OFF = STORE, ON = USE.

The switch doesn't have a written ON/OFF. When its unplugged from shore powered the light is off, no 12V. When I toggle the switch so the light is on, I have 12V. Once I plug it in to shore power, the light is always on but the chassis battery dies. House batteries are good as I use them to boost from the dash switch. If I dont toggle the switch before I drive, no 12V. That make sense?

[dkoldman]

Reading the multiple posts this gets a little confusing.

Are we saying for some Thor coaches, or for all Thor coaches that the way the USE/STORE switches are designed... when on Shore Power it will start to drain the Chassis battery?

If so why?

I am assuming what is being described is a defect; and if so; wouldn't it be an obvious recall for service for the appropriate models?

[Mag]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Your chassis battery SHOULD charge as soon as the house batteries are charged to the point that the BIRD or BIN see's enough voltage difference between the house batteries and chassis batteries to tie them together to also charge the chassis batteries.

Now this is assuming that the USE/STORE switch is in USE, the BIRD/BIN is operating correctly and no DC breakers are open.

Whats a BIRD or BIN?

[ducksface]

Automotively, and to shed a little differentiation :
A selonoid is a stand alone device wired directly. You'll see the power in and power out wires, usually of the same, and relatively large, diameter.

A relay is a unit that plugs into a receptacle and is easily swapped out without touching wires. You'll see nothing discernable(just an enclosure) until you unplug it, then you see only male pins.

It's not a hard, fast, rule.
It's an easy way to not confuse people by getting caught up in histories and symantics.

I didn't type this to argue.
I typed it so newbs can LOOK and see what we are talking about.

[Mo_Mike]

Originally Posted by Mag

Whats a BIRD or BIN?

BIRD = BI DIRECTIONAL RELAY DELAY. It monitors voltage from the COACH batteries, the CHASSIS batteries, and the CHASSIS IGNITION.

If either set of batteries are above 13.1v it closes the TROMBETTA RELAY and connects the COACH and CHASSIS batteries to allow charging both sets (from shore power and your converter). When either battery drops below 12.8v, the relay opens separating the batteries and protecting the chassis battery from draining. If the batteries are below 12.8, but if there is voltage on the IGN lead (signifying the engine and alternator are running) the relay closes allowing the alternator to charge all batteries.

On mine, the IGN and the COACH battery leads were reversed so the relay would open when shore power was connected and the chassis battery would not charge.

After I spent an afternoon tracing wires with a multimeter everything works as it should and batteries are charged as the are supposed to be..

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Reading the multiple posts this gets a little confusing.

Are we saying for some Thor coaches, or for all Thor coaches that the way the USE/STORE switches are designed... when on Shore Power it will start to drain the Chassis battery?

If so why?

I am assuming what is being described is a defect; and if so; wouldn't it be an obvious recall for service for the appropriate models?

No, a properly functioning coach isolates the house and chassis batteries regardless of the position of the USE/STORE switch or house battery DISCONNECT switch.

Chassis battery should never drain for the same amount of time that a normal car battery won't drain while sitting.

Most coaches have a mechanism that ties the house and chassis batteries together if there is a charging source such as the engine alternator or the 120 VAC to 12 VDC converter. This is accomplished by the BIRD (Battery Isolation Relay Delay) system with Trombetta solenoid or the BIM (Battery Isolation Manager).

These have failure points as well as faulty installation/wiring problems at times.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

No, a properly functioning coach isolates the house and chassis batteries regardless of the position of the USE/STORE switch or house battery DISCONNECT switch.

Chassis battery should never drain for the same amount of time that a normal car battery won't drain while sitting.

Most coaches have a mechanism that ties the house and chassis batteries together if there is a charging source such as the engine alternator or the 120 VAC to 12 VDC converter. This is accomplished by the BIRD (Battery Isolation Relay Delay) system with Trombetta solenoid or the BIM (Battery Isolation Manager).

These have failure points as well as faulty installation/wiring problems at times.

Ted the system won't allow me to thank you enough for all of your help It must come natural to you; so you don't seek anyway. Just know I am grateful to posters like you and Mo Mike as I have copied verbatim your last two posts to my cheat sheets notes under Batteries & Use / Store in my SOP.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Ted the system won't allow me to thank you enough for all of your help It must come natural to you; so you don't seek anyway. Just know I am grateful to posters like you and Mo Mike as I have copied verbatim your last two posts to my cheat sheets notes under Batteries & Use / Store in my SOP.

Thanks for the accolades. I just like to help when I can.