Different generators in 2022 29M Hurricanes

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Chance

Interesting. Was that Onan KY 4000 and 50-Amp electrical service from factory? Or did you upgrade from 30A yourself?
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The 50 amp option for the Hurricane 31S not available until January 2016. My coach was purchased on Jan 26, 2016 and the coach was manufactured in November 2015. One A/C was sufficient for our travels when home base was Western KY, but 30 amps was not. Microwave, water heater and A/C draw 41 amps and DW was not happy to have to consider what was on. She is all for automatic. When we decided to move to TX the second A/C became necessary. I collected all the parts I need mostly from Tweetys and PPLMH and installed them myself (helps to be a retired AE). I had Iron Horse RV install the heat pump, as I was not willing to lug 90 lbs on to the roof.

[tiffstoe]

So I just got back from the dealership and they also called the Thor rep to explain the inconsistencies to me. We toured a 29M and a 31C. Both had dual 13,500 A/Cs, Onan 4000s, and 50amp upgraded cords for shore power which was above the standard 30amp that they're putting on those 2022 models. I ran the air conditioners both at the same time and the microwave. Sure enough, the system that keeps it from overloading kicked in and turned the cooling off of one of the A/Cs. The fan kept running but the cooling paused until the microwave was done. The digital display also shows "SHED" illuminated when it was doing it and that turned off when the microwave turned off. Separately, I also turned on both A/Cs at the same time and "SHED" became illuminated again until 1 of the units completed its startup then it allowed the 2nd one to kick in.
Additionally, the Thor rep on the phone explained that the literature is not consistent with what might be on the lot for sale because they are dealing with supply issues and therefore some of the upgrades are likely to be unavailable even though I was sitting in 2 coaches that had them.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by tiffstoe

So I just got back from the dealership and they also called the Thor rep to explain the inconsistencies to me. We toured a 29M and a 31C. Both had dual 13,500 A/Cs, Onan 4000s, and 50amp upgraded cords for shore power which was above the standard 30amp that they're putting on those 2022 models. I ran the air conditioners both at the same time and the microwave. Sure enough, the system that keeps it from overloading kicked in and turned the cooling off of one of the A/Cs. The fan kept running but the cooling paused until the microwave was done. The digital display also shows "SHED" illuminated when it was doing it and that turned off when the microwave turned off. Separately, I also turned on both A/Cs at the same time and "SHED" became illuminated again until 1 of the units completed its startup then it allowed the 2nd one to kick in.
Additionally, the Thor rep on the phone explained that the literature is not consistent with what might be on the lot for sale because they are dealing with supply issues and therefore some of the upgrades are likely to be unavailable even though I was sitting in 2 coaches that had them.

Kudos for two 13,500 BTU units. My wife and I was looking at 2019 Windsport 27B and 90* outside around 11:00 AM, the Firefly was 100plus inside. They turned on generator and both ACs to cool it down, it was so hot we went to lunch and came back around 1:30 and it was still EXTREMELY HOT The salesman told us not to worry that it only needed more freon. It was brand new. But I knew then I would never buy any RV over 28 feet with 1 AC PERIOD even if I lived in Anchorage Alaska.

Having a 50 amp cord may be sugar pill or feel good thing if your coach can't handle a 50 amp load? which takes me to the what they may see as benefit, that is if you have shore power you can have 50 amps.

But I go back to my last post, if I like the models, I trust what Thor has done. You will be fine and you will be able to adapt to Onan 4000 genny. You would have to be boondocking someplace where it was really really hot to experience a pain.

[16ACE27]

So basically, two 50 amp coaches with the money saving 4 KW installed in place of the 5.5 KW generator. No 11 KBTU power saving A/Cs.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by tiffstoe

So I just got back from the dealership and they also called the Thor rep to explain the inconsistencies to me. We toured a 29M and a 31C. Both had dual 13,500 A/Cs, Onan 4000s, and 50amp upgraded cords for shore power which was above the standard 30amp that they're putting on those 2022 models. I ran the air conditioners both at the same time and the microwave. Sure enough, the system that keeps it from overloading kicked in and turned the cooling off of one of the A/Cs. The fan kept running but the cooling paused until the microwave was done. The digital display also shows "SHED" illuminated when it was doing it and that turned off when the microwave turned off. Separately, I also turned on both A/Cs at the same time and "SHED" became illuminated again until 1 of the units completed its startup then it allowed the 2nd one to kick in.
Additionally, the Thor rep on the phone explained that the literature is not consistent with what might be on the lot for sale because they are dealing with supply issues and therefore some of the upgrades are likely to be unavailable even though I was sitting in 2 coaches that had them.

Thanks for letting us know. It sounds pretty good to me, and I’m glad that they are including the 50-Amp service on the 29M also since the added cost should be minimal.

Since air conditioners keep getting more efficient, it’s good to know they can now use two 13,500 BTU/hr A/Cs instead of being limited to the previous 11,000 BTU/hour Power Savers. Power difference is very little.

I’m curious if they mentioned how the system works on 50A shore power. I assume power shedding is bypassed when on 50A shore power.

Thanks again for follow-up.

[Chance]

P.S. — Latest ratings on Coleman web site shows the 13,500 Power Saver is most efficient of the three sizes, and pulls only 0.3 Amps more than the 11,000 Power Saver.

I have no idea which A/C Model Thor is using on these two motorhomes, but since they used lowest-current A/C before, it’s likely they stayed with Power Saver series.
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[Rclbud]

Originally Posted by Chance

P.S. — Latest ratings on Coleman web site shows the 13,500 Power Saver is most efficient of the three sizes, and pulls only 0.3 Amps more than the 11,000 Power Saver.

I have no idea which A/C Model Thor is using on these two motorhomes, but since they used lowest-current A/C before, it’s likely they stayed with Power Saver series.
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I would LOVE to be able to have two ACs on the 4000 kw generator..... I dont mind spending some money to make this happen.

[tiffstoe]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

So basically, two 50 amp coaches with the money saving 4 KW installed in place of the 5.5 KW generator. No 11 KBTU power saving A/Cs.

yupp

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by tiffstoe

So I just got back from the dealership and they also called the Thor rep to explain the inconsistencies to me. We toured a 29M and a 31C. Both had dual 13,500 A/Cs, Onan 4000s, and 50amp upgraded cords for shore power which was above the standard 30amp that they're putting on those 2022 models. I ran the air conditioners both at the same time and the microwave. Sure enough, the system that keeps it from overloading kicked in and turned the cooling off of one of the A/Cs. The fan kept running but the cooling paused until the microwave was done. The digital display also shows "SHED" illuminated when it was doing it and that turned off when the microwave turned off. Separately, I also turned on both A/Cs at the same time and "SHED" became illuminated again until 1 of the units completed its startup then it allowed the 2nd one to kick in.
Additionally, the Thor rep on the phone explained that the literature is not consistent with what might be on the lot for sale because they are dealing with supply issues and therefore some of the upgrades are likely to be unavailable even though I was sitting in 2 coaches that had them.

Life is about sacrifices and everything in an RV has to do with this...except A/C's. I wouldn't purchase any model whereby the generator would not power both 15BTU A/C's, the microwave and a coffeemaker/electric water heater at the same time. That's what morning camping in south Florida in the middle of August is about. Maybe it's an availability issue, maybe it's a money savings issue...maybe it's trending, but...once you reach the $200K+ level...who cares about a few more bucks. It's like a fake Rolex...if the second hand clicks...it ain't real. The last sentence in your post explains it...it's about availability issues. The water-cooled, Kubota driven 5500 diesel generator in mine has never flickered with any load I've thrown at it...and it's inverter technology...she drops down and purrs when the load decreases. Maybe I need to rethink trading later this year.

[Chance]

In my opinion it’s not productive to compare options that are of completely different costs, or sometimes even if of same/similar costs when designed to achieve different goals.

An Onan 6,000-Watt inverter diesel generator cost $9,645 versus a 4,000-Watt gasoline generator from same supplier costing $3,575. Diesel cost 270% as much, or nearly three times as expensive. That’s like comparing a motorhome costing $150,000 to one costing $400,000.

It can also get complicated when comparing options of similar costs but designed to achieve different results. An example is ditching generator altogether and applying same cost towards larger batteries and inverter (Cross Trek/Trail). Just an example where personal needs makes it very subjective. It may work great for some and not at all for others.

One of the first things I would upgrade on a 29M is install a larger inverter that can power microwave and coffee maker; and I’d do it for convenience, not to save gas. Since I would want that capability anyway, the generator is primarily needed to power air conditioners for long periods, and to charge batteries. And for that, 4,000 Watts is plenty of power.

I think it’s very possible that RV manufacturers are already thinking in that direction since buyers are emphasizing inverters and placing lower priority on generators. Starting out with a smaller generator optimized for A/C and battery-charging loads makes a lot of sense to me. It’s pretty much what Winnebago did recently with Ekko — base unit has small generator and mid-size lithium/inverter system. That seems a great compromise to me.

[Hittntherooad]

The 5500 is much quieter than the 4000.

[Hittntherooad]

If it takes 2 units to keep cool and one is shedding you are defeating having 2 units.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Hittntherooad

The 5500 is much quieter than the 4000.

Only because it runs at 1/3 less rpm. I think the full specks show the 5500s are louder at 100% load when compared to the KY 4000 at full load, but then again 5500 is producing 1,500 more watts. The length of the exhaust pipe makes a great difference. Not that it matters, buy my cell phone registered a 61db level when 7 meters from QG400o putting out about 2,000 watts (50% load).

[Hittntherooad]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Only because it runs at 1/3 less rpm. I think the full specks show the 5500s are louder at 100% load when compared to the KY 4000 at full load, but then again 5500 is producing 1,500 more watts.

I’ve had both and much prefer the 5500 and the noise it produces has a much lower tone and even running 2 acs to me is much quieter. The 4000 runs wide open all the time.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Beau388

Only because it runs at 1/3 less rpm. I think the full specks show the 5500s are louder at 100% load when compared to the KY 4000 at full load, but then again 5500 is producing 1,500 more watts. The length of the exhaust pipe makes a great difference. Not that it matters, buy my cell phone registered a 61db level when 7 meters from QG400o putting out about 2,000 watts (50% load).

I have no idea of why, but the qualitative data shows a number of users complaining about their Onan 4000 being too loud and I don't recall ANY complaining about a Onan 5500 being too loud. I was so taken back by those complaining about the Onan 4000 being to loud that I bought a dosimeter and I found that my 5500 is quieter than my portable 3500 power inverter. In fact; if I were going to report something to the Complaint Police it would be my ACs as I can hear them more so than my genny.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Hittntherooad

The 5500 is much quieter than the 4000.

I believe that too, but I would love to see the Mythbuster show to prove it. There could be circumstances that make it always appear that way. Location of genny, length of coach, % of load on genny etc. But whatever it is, I believe you right; the 5500 is functionally quieter.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Hittntherooad

I’ve had both and much prefer the 5500 and the noise it produces has a much lower tone and even running 2 acs to me is much quieter. The 4000 runs wide open all the time.

Nope just like all generators the throttle setting depends on the electrical load, and just like the 5500 it rotates at a constant speed.

The 4000 runs at 3600 RPM and drives the generator on a common shaft.
The 5500 runs at 3400 RPM and drives the generator through pulleys and a belt so the generator end runs at 3600 RPM

[Chance]

At 10 feet away and half load, the Onan 4,000 is rated 68 db(A).

At 10 feet away and half load, the Onan 5,500 is rated 69 db(B).

There may be newer 4000 and 5500 generator models not yet listed on this site, but this is a good comparison, and there is very little difference.

Notes make it clear that “typical installation will further reduce sound level”. And since most larger motorhomes requiring the larger generator are probably built a little beefier than smaller motorhomes, I think it is reasonable to expect 5,500 are better enclosed than 4,000 on average. Sound levels will vary from unit to unit.

The 5,500 has a V twin engine running slower at 2,400 RPM, so it probably sounds different than the 4,000 single-cylinder engine at 3,600 RPM.
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[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chance

At 10 feet away and half load, the Onan 4,000 is rated 68 db(A).

At 10 feet away and half load, the Onan 5,500 is rated 69 db(B).

There may be newer 4000 and 5500 generator models not yet listed on this site, but this is a good comparison, and there is very little difference.

Notes make it clear that “typical installation will further reduce sound level”. And since most larger motorhomes requiring the larger generator are probably built a little beefier than smaller motorhomes, I think it is reasonable to expect 5,500 are better enclosed than 4,000 on average. Sound levels will vary from unit to unit.

The 5,500 has a V twin engine running slower at 2,400 RPM, so it probably sounds different than the 4,000 single-cylinder engine at 3,600 RPM.
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Numbers never lie

Soooooo, does this mean if I dump my 5500 for a new 4000, that not only will it be quieter; but it can be wired safely to my 30amp Home Transfer Switch?

My gut says the perception is likely because the 5500 is normally on a coach 30 ft or longer, an a 4000 may be on a 25ft coach; that 5 may be 5 feet or so closer to front to the door or main area under awning which makes it seem louder because it probably is comparatively speaking. To put the 69db in perspective, my old Bostitch compressor is 75db, and my new Makita is 57db

[Largo]

We have two 13,000 AC's and a 4000 watt Gen. in our 2022 Thor Four Winds 31W. No problem running both AC's with generator. Ac's make more noise than than the ginny which interferes with watching tv at night.