Ford Electric Vehicles Rendered Unprofitable

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

At the moment, since EV chargers aren't on every corner like gas stations are you have to plan a little. You don't just drive until the gauge reads zero and then look. Chargers are going in very fast these days. A year from now routes will have opened up that don't exist today (it is much easer to plop some chargers down somewhere than it is to build a new gas station).

On an EV you program the navigation for your destination and it automatically adds the appropriate chargers to the route. If I were to sit down and tell my car (via the in car nav or the Ford app) to take me to LA it would find all the chargers enroute (with a safety margin).

That's fair.
Gas stations used to be the same way.
There is remnant of an early gas station on my property. Essentially a gypsy type wagon that hauled 5 gallon cans and had an anvil and hand tools, the clear part of the tall old style pump was so the buyer could see if the gas was clean before putting it in the car. Pump pumped to the glass vessel, you agreed, then put it in the car. My little remnant was pre-pump.

As long as we agree that the trip is part of a hobby and alternate transportation and by far not ready for mainstream(Think how some average people will treat the delicate electrical hook up and how the tesla snoozers are understanding self-driving mode) , and is undeniably pushing the boundaries to comic proportions with rv use, I'm fine with it all.

When every word every Damn agendacized word-seller types is now gospel and the article isn't taken apart to see what lies lie in it, I'm not fine with it.
Same with a company doing the required publication as a required step to fulfil the stages of their government grant. If you're so uneducated as to not know how it works, don't say how cool it is. These publications like that cross country Mercedes are fulfillment of timed contracts to government or internals, nothing more. It's why they say nothing and are on par with middle school weekly wrting assignmnents. It's written for sheep. Then the sheep bleat.

I'll eat fish served finely and in a delicate well thought out manner.
I'll not accept a whole one being shoved down my throat while the waitress shouts that this whole flopping carp is tuna tartar.

The purposeful(I hope people aren't really so slow)dumbing down required to believe the hyperbole is nauseating.

I truly have nothing against the vehicles.
It's the selective ignorance and the righteousness and religion of it all.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Topic of conversation at our Chapter breakfast this morning. From the President of an electric coop in NC, who is a member in attendance

The National electric grid is not ready and will not be ready for EVs for at least a decade. Every major city will experience brown outs this summer. The cost of electricity will need to triple before the grid can be improved to handle mass increased use of EVs.

In the case of the Winnebago electric Transit Class C road trip, the 1,380 miles could have been easily driven by a gas Transit at 20 MPG at those slower speeds, or about 70 gallons of fuel. At $5 per gallon, or $350 total, savings from going electric would only be +/- $75.

Based on reported trip data, they paid an average of $0.315 per kWh to charge, which seems very realistic to me. The 60% cost savings doesn’t seem realistic unless the trip was compared to a van getting much lower MPG and or paying much higher cost per gallon for gasoline.

For now, the greater opportunity to reduce fuel cost and CO2 is to downsize and or make motorhomes lighter and more aerodynamic. That’s the low (and cheap) fruit in my opinion. That part has to be accomplished to make eRVs viable anyway, so why not start there while powering with most efficient gas powertrains?


Edited to show there is not much incentive to convert RVs due to high fuel costs.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Topic of conversation at our Chapter breakfast this morning. From the President of an electric coop in NC, who is a member in attendance

The National electric grid is not ready and will not be ready for EVs for at least a decade. Every major city will experience brown outs this summer. The cost of electricity will need to triple before the grid can be improved to handle mass increased use of EVs.

The problems with the grid didn't just start yesterday. There's been a serious lack of investment for over 50 years, and that's how we got here today. Similar to an RV that's never had any maintenance or upkeep. You MUST put money aside for that, or you wind up with a junk RV. A neglected power grid will fail... just like a neglected RV.

The coop president is using a near sighted approach... had the investment been made over the years, the funds would be available now without using shock therapy. Question is, where did the money for maintenance go??

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

The problems with the grid didn't just start yesterday. There's been a serious lack of investment for over 50 years, and that's how we got here today. Similar to an RV that's never had any maintenance or upkeep. You MUST put money aside for that, or you wind up with a junk RV. A neglected power grid will fail... just like a neglected RV.

The coop president is using a near sighted approach... had the investment been made over the years, the funds would be available now without using shock therapy. Question is, where did the money for maintenance go??

Thanks for you opinion.

[Laco]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Seems carrying a portable generator in electric cars may be as smart as carrying them in motorhomes!!

Possibly a built in gasoline powered generator that automatically starts and will charge the batteries when their charge is depleted. Oh wait, thats the definition of a 'plug-in hybrid', guess we already have those.

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

The problems with the grid didn't just start yesterday. There's been a serious lack of investment for over 50 years, and that's how we got here today. Similar to an RV that's never had any maintenance or upkeep. You MUST put money aside for that, or you wind up with a junk RV. A neglected power grid will fail... just like a neglected RV.

The coop president is using a near sighted approach... had the investment been made over the years, the funds would be available now without using shock therapy. Question is, where did the money for maintenance go??

The no nukes movement put a hurting on the electric industry back in the 60s and 70s. The electric industry invested countless dollars trying to improve and enhance the country's grid using clean power from nuclear plants. The investment was massive and is still being paid by electric companies around the country. Environmentalists pressured policy makers to change and enhance rules and plants never went online or went online decades behind schedule. Billions of dollars was invested on electricity that was never produced. The electric generation industry took notice of this and has been slow to invest in newer technologies and improvements. They are scared that greenies and their supporters in government will drop the hammer on them again.

[detrog]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Let's be honest... the logic behind raising prices because of short supply is driven by greed and NOTHING else. The thing is, people have come to accept price gouging as a normal part of "doing business". I'm not taking a loss... I want to feed myself, so no soup for you! In reality, it's the SAME concept as letting your friend drown because you don't want to risk your own life attempting to save them. NO different at all, except what society has taught you.

Rather than some random spot in the supply chain, let's start at the SOURCE - for instance a lithium mine. Less lithium is being mined (the reason doesn't really matter) so lithium is in "short supply"... SO? Two choices - sell what you have at the current price - OR jack the price up (gouging) to make up for lost profit from "short supply". The sick logic goes... The business owner can't afford to "take a loss", so pass it on to the next guy. EVENTUALLY the consumer at the bottom of the food chain gets burned.

For "wants", who cares? Consumers have a choice of not buying the "price gouged" goods or services. HOWEVER, when price gouging affects basic food staples - uhhh... baby formula and such, you realize the rot and corruption allowed to fester in our "system".

That's a simplified version of the root of "inflation", which is just a polite word for price gouging. It's NOT the money supply, the FED and all those other distractions... it's simply a decision a person made based on greed... PERIOD.

In this case, Ford purchased components from a supply chain which originated with a person choosing to raise prices dramatically - that greed element. In this case, consumers have an easy choice... DON'T buy, and leave Ford stuck holding the bag. In simple terms, had the original purchaser of the lithium said NO to the purchase...

It has nothing to do with price gouging. It is simple supply and demand. Just like the massive price increases in the housing market. Oil companies don't raise the price of oil. Speculators do. If you can't get a permit to drill oil on an a piece of ground that you have a lease for then the lease is worthless and speculators see that.
Automobile companies are not price gouging, they're selling products that are in short supply to those that are willing to pay the price. If there wasn't a demand then the price drops. Same goes for individuals selling their wares. Basic capitalism.

[Chance]

On that same line of thought regarding supply and demand, gas cost is presently down due to $5/gallon reducing demand. Granted there will be some short-term abuse due to human greed, but for the most part things will balance out as they should longer-term. Competition takes care of that.


https://rvbusiness.com/aaa-dip-in-oi...ivers-a-break/


I’m glad to see prices below $5 in my area, and like to think I helped by driving less since previous fill up at $4.199. That was a fluke, when most stations were around $4.599.


Same will happen with electric cars/vehicles. If prices increase too much due to cost of materials, buyers won’t buy them at all; preferring other options.

[DogLovers]

There are virtually NO electrical vehicles available now that erase their own carbon footprint in less than 20 years of operation. Even then adding the maintenance costs associated with 20 years of driving electric far outstrips any savings in not buying fuel and CO2 reductions.

Just building an electric vehicle produces more CO2 than a conventional auto. Then all the electric needed to operate for 20 years creates more CO2 than a conventional car because power plants are run on coal, oil, gas or worse yet nuclear power. All harming the environment more than your conventional car's CO2 emissions.

Do the research, I did. Anybody who thinks buying an electric car today will save the planet and them money has a lose nut behind the wheel or simply can't read.

[RACarvalho]

I just love the fact that many of the most openly "climate change" warriors have toys like private jets and super yachts that burn 100s of gallons/hour when in operation...
Those are the same people that pack St. Martin Island airport with their private jets during Christmas so they can board their superyachts and sail down to St. Barth for new years eve fireworks...

I can guarantee you that one week of their lifestyle produces more "emissions" than 10000s of families produce in their entire life....


Lets keep the little people fighting for crumbs of energy....
Lets cause inflation and make the life of the poor miserable because you know, there are a lot of $ to be made....., I mean,
we need to save the planet!!!

[lwmcguir]

The EV and BEV situation has evolved for many reasons, driven politically primarily as noted by the forum

Before retiring from GE they leased 1000 of the early EV's which included Chevy Volts.

I went from an Impala to a Volt. Along with it a charger and a 240v 60-amp receptacle installed in the garage by GE. Still have the charger

That was the one and only bunch of EV's for GE for the next 10 years

Soccer moms in the big city is where EV's belong

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by DogLovers

Then all the electric needed to operate for 20 years creates more CO2 than a conventional car because power plants are run on coal, oil, gas or worse yet nuclear power.

Why is nuclear power worse?

[ducksface]

They can put a nuke plant right in my kitchen.
I'd like to think my fears and foibles aren't created by the media.
(Maybe My thinking such is media driven and I'm as foolish as the fools.)

[GordSanClemente]

I keep looking at the URL at the top of my screen.
It still says “thorforums.com”
Why is this here?
I dropped “Nextdoor “ because a warning about a coyote on the street ended up being blamed on a political party.
Huh?

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by GordSanClemente

I keep looking at the URL at the top of my screen.
It still says “thorforums.com”
Why is this here?
I dropped “Nextdoor “ because a warning about a coyote on the street ended up being blamed on a political party.
Huh?

Some of us are broad based and always expanding.
Others are narrow and even as their path has the potential to widen they do not look aside but trudge head down.

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by Chance

It may be a while before Electric RVs are economically practical going by automobile market.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-...170117652.html


“Ford Motor Co.’s hot-selling Mustang Mach-E electric SUV and other plug-in models are being rendered unprofitable by rising raw material costs.”


Mention of $25,000 cost premium for similar-size electric SUV suggest Electric RVs that would require much greater battery capacity and are driven a lot less (reducing opportunity for fuel-cost savings) face strong headwinds.


“The company also has boosted prices on the Mach-E this year, he said, without giving specifics. But the model, which Ford is recalling for a defect that could cause it to stop running, now costs $25,000 more to produce than an equivalent gas-powered Edge SUV, he said.”

Battery costs or up over 400% in the last year. China is enjoying the increase as they build more coal fire power plants every day.

[lwmcguir]

China has bought a number of turbine generators out of the US including stalled Nuke projects

Elon has stated his two new giga factories are money burners

Battery raw material cost are up 400% or more

China is buying cheap oil, selling products high

We recently set a trade deficit record

There is a bad pattern here

Democracies require reasonable cost energy

Ukraine had cheap power, Nukes and Russian gas

Our energy cost are rising rapidly

[thisoldman]

For my use case, an electric-only passenger vehicle just doesn't make sense. Now a hybrid, on the other hand, makes perfect sense and that's why I bought one. The local Ford dealer from which I bought my 2020 Escape SEL Sport Hybrid must send me a letter at least once a month offering to buy the vehicle. Sure, I'll sell it back to you "for top dollar" so that I have to go out and buy another new vehicle at something well in excess of "top dollar." I don't think so.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Chance

It may be a while before Electric RVs are economically practical going by automobile market.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-...170117652.html


“Ford Motor Co.’s hot-selling Mustang Mach-E electric SUV and other plug-in models are being rendered unprofitable by rising raw material costs.”


Mention of $25,000 cost premium for similar-size electric SUV suggest Electric RVs that would require much greater battery capacity and are driven a lot less (reducing opportunity for fuel-cost savings) face strong headwinds.


“The company also has boosted prices on the Mach-E this year, he said, without giving specifics. But the model, which Ford is recalling for a defect that could cause it to stop running, now costs $25,000 more to produce than an equivalent gas-powered Edge SUV, he said.”

Yes Lora and I thought this ev crap was bonus when we traveled 7 months on the road over 23 states and no dam electric charging stations in site !

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I saw one of those Mustangs doing 50mph- in a 65mph+ zone two days ago.
WAAAAYYYY out on the Navajo reservation, I assume the speed was a kind of prayer about making it to Farmington where a three hour stopover would be required to charge to full.

With the added cost being admitted to, can we all finally admit this
mainstream electric vehicles are the savior
stuff,
at this time in space, was/is a financial device similar to the Solyndra circus?

Next wave, Next distraction, Next circus
Coming soon to a town near you.

Yes many people FOOLED!
can you imagine traveling at night and hoping you find juice!
Or stuff on the road with no dam power battery dash all goes!