Fully emptying Black water tank issue

[16ACE27]

So you have owned this RV for 6 years and this has just now become a problem?

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

So you have owned this RV for 6 years and this has just now become a problem?

I have never said, "this has just now become a problem". It has been a problem since day one, and I do the same thing each time to clean it.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

Like I have said multiple times here...I have FILLED the tank to the point the "F" is shown on the display...then I drain, refill, fill the toilet up, empty that MULITPLE times...still see paper sitting directly at the bottom.

Jusplain,

It it that statement that takes me back to the beginning and the challenge I made to you and I provided the guarantee.

Point 1 - So you do seem to concede here that filling the tank with water for purposes of moving paper would be acceptable.

Point 2- It does not appear you have tried alternative chemicals suggested placed in the waste tank at mfg specifications, or even your existing chemical if you double the dose.

My point and contention is that given you see toilet paper, by supposition, it has not been dissolved; given you had toilet paper submersed in water; it is implied the submersion time was inadequate or chemical solution not strong enough.


On a side note; when I look at the drawing provided by the Judge, it reminds me, that I don't have the bathroom sink plumbed to the black tank. The outside kitchen sink is plumbed to black tank but it is rarely used. So basically the only water in black tank is from flushing. I was seeing your angst with paper sticking on the slope and not having opportunity to dissolve, but in my view and my block is that I don't see how anyone can see paper if they are using a good chemical in the correct amounts to break down solids and paper.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Judge

And there may be your whole problem...

If you are relying on the sensor to tell you the tank is full when flushing, I can guarantee more than 50% of the time your black tank is nowhere near being full of fresh water.

I have filled the tank not just relying on the display, but also looking down the toilet and I can see it's full of water, and below that, I can still see the toilet paper sitting there. Sometimes it will pile up, and I have again filled the bowl and have gotten the volcano effect.

I just think it's a "crappy" design. I'm thinking there isn't enough tilt on the tank so that stuff will slide down.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Jusplain,

It it that statement that takes me back to the beginning and the challenge I made to you and I provided the guarantee.

Point 1 - So you do seem to concede here that filling the tank with water for purposes of moving paper would be acceptable.

Point 2- It does not appear you have tried alternative chemicals suggested placed in the waste tank at mfg specifications, or even your existing chemical if you double the dose.

My point and contention is that given you see toilet paper, by supposition, it has not been dissolved; given you had toilet paper submersed in water; it is implied the submersion time was inadequate or chemical solution not strong enough.


On a side note; when I look at the drawing provided by the Judge, it reminds me, that I don't have the bathroom sink plumbed to the black tank. The outside kitchen sink is plumbed to black tank but it is rarely used. So basically the only water in black tank is from flushing. I was seeing your angst with paper sticking on the slope and not having opportunity to dissolve, but in my view and my block is that I don't see how anyone can see paper if they are using a good chemical in the correct amounts to break down solids and paper.

For the chemicals to work, the toilet paper and chemicals must be in the water...right? That's the whole problem.

The problem is, the toilet paper sits right below the toilet bowl and no matter how much water or chemicals I dump from the toilet, it doesn't do shit (no pun intended). I have to get my wand out and move it out of the way.

[Jusplainwacky]

And remember...Vibeman said he as a 29M...and has the same problem. I think that is an important clue.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

For the chemicals to work, the toilet paper and chemicals must be in the water...right? That's the whole problem.

The problem is, the toilet paper sits right below the toilet bowl and no matter how much water or chemicals I dump from the toilet, it doesn't do shit (no pun intended). I have to get my wand out and move it out of the way.

Yes the toilet paper must be in water. I have never stated the belief that you need more water to push the paper. My belief is that the point where paper falls translate to x amount of water in your 40 gal waste tank. I estimated about 9 gal; but you can calculate the exact amount. Dump the black tank and add 1 gallon at a time through the toilet until you have at least 1/2" of water right at point where toilet pipe leads to slope. I just checked mine and I have 1/2" of water with at the slope point with 2 gallons of water. I also have 8 oz of chemicals that can break down 40 gallons of black tank crap. So when I 1st start dropping my poop towels; they hit 2 gallons of water that is very thin, but is about 16 times stronger than needed. Over time, I have more water rising and the chemicals loses it's strength.

How many gallons you need is based on your design, but the directions on the chemicals all say to start with an initial amount of water. My final point is that if you do nothing, but ensure proper starting water and chemicals, the paper you see will NEVER be an issue. Yes; when I throw trash in my trash can and open the lid I can see the trash. That is not a problem to me because that is what a trash can is for. I dump it when it full, not because I see some trash on the bottom.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

I have filled the tank not just relying on the display, but also looking down the toilet and I can see it's full of water, and below that, I can still see the toilet paper sitting there. Sometimes it will pile up, and I have again filled the bowl and have gotten the volcano effect.

I just think it's a "crappy" design. I'm thinking there isn't enough tilt on the tank so that stuff will slide down.

I would not be surprised that there is only a little tilt to your tank.

Look at the schematics that I posted. You can see there is only a slight slope of the ledge in my tanks running from the passenger side to the drivers side.

There's not lot of room under the chassis of these coaches between the frame, drivetrain, tanks, plumbing, wiring and everything else to put a significant slope to the tank from the toilet side.

So unless I leveled my coach so there is a significant tilt to the drivers side, any solids going through the toilet are not going to slide down to the deep part of the tank without LOTS of water helping.

I manually level my coach using a real level so the slope of my tank is what it is...... but there is always 1 - 2 gallons of water flowing across that ledge every time we use the toilet.... and I'm filling the tank to almost 90% capacity to rinse after every dump.... and we have no issues. You obviously do so maybe something else is going on.


What you really need is Clark Griswold's new non-caloric silicone based kitchen lubricant that he sprayed on the bottom of his saucer before sled riding down that hill i Christmas Vacation. If you sprayed that on the inside of your tank, everything would slide out of there like $hit through a goose!

[Jimbo56]

Wow! Paper on the bottom . “volcano “ effect. The old timer from 35 years ago said “never be afraid to have water in the tanks”. I’ve had my unit sit in the driveway with several gallons in the black tank for months. I dumped. I refilled with a few gallons of water. I drove home ( using the toilet along the way). The black system is closed. Left with water in the toilet, covering the valve, it ain’t got no place to evaporate to. It’s got a spoonful of happy camper in it. Next time out, whether 1 day or 3 months, all works as it should. Do I open the toilet valve and stare down into the tank? No. Why? Because I want that water to sit on top of the toilet valve so the gasket doesn’t dry out. I’ve never had any sewage odor.

But with that said, to each his own. I’ll move on.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Do I open the toilet valve and stare down into the tank? No. Why? Because I want that water to sit on top of the toilet valve so the gasket doesn’t dry out. I’ve never had any sewage odor.

I use Thetford RV Toilet Seal Lube and Conditioner when I winterize the coach. One bottle lasts a long time.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

And remember...Vibeman said he as a 29M...and has the same problem. I think that is an important clue.

And many others with 29Ms and other MHs with passenger side toilets with shallow sloping tanks have complained of the same issue. Yes, it's a poor design. But the problem is mitigated by the solutions provided. Read and heed or sell the RV.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Some threads just keep repeating themselves over and over again, page after page...some folks do not read through the entire thread before posting something that was mentioned in the first 5 or 6 posts. This is one of those threads. What more can be said, advised or recommended here???

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Judge

I use Thetford RV Toilet Seal Lube and Conditioner when I winterize the coach. One bottle lasts a long time.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I love Thetford, respect Experience, trust You, so in my Cart this stuff will go. Now when I hit the Amazon free shipping limit; I will order because no matter how much money I make, I enjoy being thrifty more. What is the quote "Shop Victoriously"

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

Some threads just keep repeating themselves over and over again, page after page...some folks do not read through the entire thread before posting something that was mentioned in the first 5 or 6 posts. This is one of those threads. What more can be said, advised or recommended here???

I could use a little help or instructions on how to make one of those poop / paper volcano like mounds in Black Tank? Unless I cease putting in water and/or stop using the solids breakdown chemicals; I am at a lost on how to do?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I could use a little help or instructions on how to make one of those poop / paper volcano like mounds in Black Tank. Unless I cease putting in water and/or stop using the solids breakdown chemicals, I am at a lost on how to do?

I told you what to do DK, my old friend....

In your black tank you gotta use some of Clark Griswold's new non-caloric silicone based kitchen lubricant that he sprayed on the bottom of his saucer before sled riding down that hill in Christmas Vacation!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rMcRJVY1-0

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Judge

I use Thetford RV Toilet Seal Lube and Conditioner when I winterize the coach. One bottle lasts a long time.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I’ve never used any such product. RV antifreeze works just fine during winter or summer storage.

[Lt Keefer]

As an owner of a 29M I will tell you, you are not looking at the bottom of the black tank but and elbow attached to a pipe going to the black tank. I had the same problem after the first dump and learned of the elbow by putting a snake down the toilet. Use more water and don't worry about it.

[OldWEB]

You think some TP is a little troubling?

Poo Pile

[Chateau_Nomad]

Has a high fiber diet been recommended yet?

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Has a high fiber diet been recommended yet?

No but before the recommendation of a non-caloric silicone based kitchen lubricant; I was gonna seriously suggest allowing the tank to completely dry and liberally spraying some Turtle Wax Hybrid Solution Ceramic Spray inside the toilet plumbing to completely cover the landing pad and slope. Once the ceramic coating has cured; buffing with bonnet pad on a stick is optional.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Turtle-Wa...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Word of warning though, if you do use Turtle Wax Hybrid Solution Ceramic Spray on slope of your black waste tank; don't ever drop your keys in the toilet.... as it will slide down the slope. That is main reason why I am not a big fan of Turtle Wax Hybrid Solution Ceramic Spray because after putting that stuff on the hood of a car, your keys will keep sliding off