Good, Bad, or Dunno

[Miramar Owner]

Side note...
Last year, when I had new tires put on, I walked past the bay and noticed the motorhome was lifted completely by my jacks. When I inquired about it they said that is how they always do it. The jacks are designed to lift and hold the weight.

The manufacturers warning doesn't say to never lift a tire off the ground... It says ALL tires.

As others have commented I don't like having tires off the ground but with that in mind, if you leave to much weight on the suspension you will get more motion in the coach when just walking around.

I set my auto level to have just enough tilt for the toilet and the AC runoff and use it 99% of the time.

[lwmcguir]

Originally Posted by Miramar Owner

Side note...
Last year, when I had new tires put on, I walked past the bay and noticed the motorhome was lifted completely by my jacks. When I inquired about it they said that is how they always do it. The jacks are designed to lift and hold the weight.

The manufacturers warning doesn't say to never lift a tire off the ground... It says ALL tires.

As others have commented I don't like having tires off the ground but with that in mind, if you leave to much weight on the suspension you will get more motion in the coach when just walking around.

I set my auto level to have just enough tilt for the toilet and the AC runoff and use it 99% of the time.

You bring up a good point, with air ride you dump air first so your rock solid to start with, totally different from springed coaches

That is why i like mine sitting on the rails if possible

[craigd853]

Originally Posted by ontherun

New at this .....and wondering if this is right. Only happens when the site is undeveloped, sloping forward.....Attachment 38956

Hello sir their is a procedure for calibrating your jack system to avoid this. Look in your owners manual and look for the hydraulic jack section. Should explain it in detail. Or as others have said you can do it manually, I mounted a bubble system near my dash so I do mine manually. The automatic can be jerky and a PITA. Good luck

[lwmcguir]

Lippert has the calibration procedure on their web site

Ultra level has a built-in electronic bubble and the low side arrows light

[ontherun]

Thank you fellow brothers of the road.......lots of useful information.....
I will try to keep all wheels on the ground......when at all possible!
And, I would never lift the back.....it's my anchor.....
Thanks everyone![emoji3577]

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by lwmcguir

Hey, speaking of Duck, where is he?

He is actually still around, traveling with ZERO plans... I miss the color and atmosphere he brought to the forum. What about Bob? Maybe it is all some kind of therapy to get me to leave the site to be with my Winnebago peeps

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ontherun

Thank you fellow brothers of the road.......lots of useful information.....
I will try to keep all wheels on the ground......when at all possible!
And, I would never lift the back.....it's my anchor.....
Thanks everyone![emoji3577]

You have chosen wisely.

I have different Leveling system made by Power Gear and in the manual it says very clearly for Auto & Manually leveling; "check to make sure that all jacks are on the ground, and also check to make sure that NO TIRE is off the ground."


Sometimes common sense is all that is required. Funny how some rules are selectively followed; while others rules are selectively ignored

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Miramar Owner

Side note...
Last year, when I had new tires put on, I walked past the bay and noticed the motorhome was lifted completely by my jacks. When I inquired about it they said that is how they always do it. The jacks are designed to lift and hold the weight.

The manufacturers warning doesn't say to never lift a tire off the ground... It says ALL tires.

As others have commented I don't like having tires off the ground but with that in mind, if you leave to much weight on the suspension you will get more motion in the coach when just walking around.

I set my auto level to have just enough tilt for the toilet and the AC runoff and use it 99% of the time.

Look at post 9 it says no wheels should be off the ground

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

Look at post 9 it says no wheels should be off the ground

Let me see, I read where post #9 manual that says "no wheels should be off the ground", wheels? well, what about one of my front or rear tires?

Power Gear says the exact same thing. And it is NOT for the attorney's legal mumbo jumbo. If some wish to read the fine print for legalese, you are also suppose to engage parking brake and chock the rear tires.

My system will not level manual or with auto unless engine is running, transmission in park, and brake set. I don't chock wheels, but I verify all 4 jacks are down, and all 4 wheels / tires are on the ground.

[EA37TS]

What I would like to know is why is it so hard to for people to read the respective owners manual to include clearly printed warning and caution statements and then follow the operating procedures?

Try reading the manual.

[Jimbo56]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

What I would like to know is why is it so hard to for people to read the respective owners manual to include clearly printed warning and caution statements and then follow the operating procedures?

Try reading the manual.

Because they want Duck’ s insights!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Because they want Duck’ s insights!

Some can't handle the truth, can't recognize or appreciate tough love, and all to often take things personal; all the while wanting something seemingly in exchange for nothing. Thus we get the Duck Tales

[16ACE27]

Seems to me that if it was so dangerous to lift a front wheel off the ground when leveling then the AUTO level function would have safeguards built-in to prevent the product from putting the owner in such a dangerous situation. Can you imagine the salivating lawyers lining up to "assist" the injured party after the leveling system caused them harm by its design?

"All I did was push the AUTO button on the installed leveling system and look what it has done to me".

[EA37TS]

On my Equalizer SmartLevel system I always use is auto level. If the site is that out of level I get an excessive slope error and auto level stops. I then pick a better location on the site, manual level or break out my 50k outrigger pads for the offending jacks.

[Miramar Owner]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Let me see, I read where post #9 manual that says "no wheels should be off the ground", wheels? well, what about one of my front or rear tires? [emoji38][emoji38]

Power Gear says the exact same thing. And it is NOT for the attorney's legal mumbo jumbo. If some wish to read the fine print for legalese, you are also suppose to engage parking brake and chock the rear tires.

My system will not level manual or with auto unless engine is running, transmission in park, and brake set. I don't chock wheels, but I verify all 4 jacks are down, and all 4 wheels / tires are on the ground.

I believe that is for a different lift system. My coach specifically states ALL WHEELS.

Regardless, I've never lifted wheels off the ground using auto leveling so I guess for me it's a mute point.

[Chateau_Nomad]

35 posts so far and still no definitive fact based answer as to WHY not to lift tires/wheels with hydraulic leveling jacks.

The only ones close to fact based:
* The rear was lifted FIRST before the front levelers were extended.
* The frame could be twisted using only one jack to lift a wheel/tire.
* Improperly installed jack's welds could break.

Fact based engineering/structural data vs. opinion. So far there are lots of opinions/preferences... conjecture.

The only thing close is a printed warning in the equipment manual stating specifically NOT to lift wheels/tires completely off the ground. Logic dictates doing so (regardless of structural facts) will void the warranty. BUT... legal language also is convenient for covering structural defects and fitness for use cases.

I cannot find any statement in the Big Foot manuals I received stating NOT to have wheels off the ground in a properly executed leveling procedure. That obviously excludes using the jacks specifically for changing a flat tire, etc... NOT a leveling procedure (intended purpose).

I was specifically instructed by Big Foot to FULLY EXTEND the jacks to bleed air from the system. The question to ask is IF YOUR jacks are sufficiently robust and properly welded to the frame, why would they NOT hold the weight of the motorhome? If I got an answer from the manufacturer saying "they might break", I would be VERY concerned about using them in ANY situation for leveling! WHY would they break?? Two reasons... either improperly designed (fitness for purpose) OR improper installation.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

35 posts so far and still no definitive fact based answer as to WHY not to lift tires/wheels with hydraulic leveling jacks.

The only ones close to fact based:
* The rear was lifted FIRST before the front levelers were extended.
* The frame could be twisted using only one jack to lift a wheel/tire.
* Improperly installed jack's welds could break.

Fact based engineering/structural data vs. opinion. So far there are lots of opinions/preferences... conjecture.

The only thing close is a printed warning in the equipment manual stating specifically NOT to lift wheels/tires completely off the ground. Logic dictates doing so (regardless of structural facts) will void the warranty. BUT... legal language also is convenient for covering structural defects and fitness for use cases.

I cannot find any statement in the Big Foot manuals I received stating NOT to have wheels off the ground in a properly executed leveling procedure. That obviously excludes using the jacks specifically for changing a flat tire, etc... NOT a leveling procedure (intended purpose).

I was specifically instructed by Big Foot to FULLY EXTEND the jacks to bleed air from the system. The question to ask is IF YOUR jacks are sufficiently robust and properly welded to the frame, why would they NOT hold the weight of the motorhome? If I got an answer from the manufacturer saying "they might break", I would be VERY concerned about using them in ANY situation for leveling! WHY would they break?? Two reasons... either improperly designed (fitness for purpose) OR improper installation.

If you have a F-53 chassis, there is no reason the front tires have to touch the ground. There is a reason; however to have both rear tires firmly grounded. The parking brake clamps the pinion shaft in the open gear differential. If only one tire is in contact with the ground, you have effectively released the parking.
As for the auto leveling computer sequences: The computer senses the deviation from its previously set level in both the lateral and longitudinal directions. These four cardinal directions (right, left, front, backs) signal which pair of jacks are to be grounded first. Let's assume the back is the most out of level (down) and and the left is also out of level. The computer grounds the two rear jacks on at a time, with the left rear being lowered first. Next the pump starts again and the computer open both jack valves simultaneously to raise the rear to level. The computer will then ground the left front jack, open both jack valves and raise the left side to level. Aster a short for the computer to check level the computer will ground the right front jack and spend 12 seconds waiting for the coach to settle before checking final level. Remember only three of the jacks are holding the coach up and the the fourth is only grounded. Should the rear or left side be higher than required, the computer will bleed pressure from the out of level jacks lowering the coach. Should any cardinal direction be below level the computer will start the pump and and pump up that cardinal direction.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by Beau388

If you have a F-53 chassis, there is no reason the front tires have to touch the ground. There is a reason; however to have both rear tires firmly grounded. The parking brake clamps the pinion shaft in the open gear differential. If only one tire is in contact with the ground, you have effectively released the parking.
As for the auto leveling computer sequences: The computer senses the deviation from its previously set level in both the lateral and longitudinal directions. These four cardinal directions (right, left, front, backs) signal which pair of jacks are to be grounded first. Let's assume the back is the most out of level (down) and and the left is also out of level. The computer grounds the two rear jacks on at a time, with the left rear being lowered first. Next the pump starts again and the computer open both jack valves simultaneously to raise the rear to level. The computer will then ground the left front jack, open both jack valves and raise the left side to level. Aster a short for the computer to check level the computer will ground the right front jack and spend 12 seconds waiting for the coach to settle before checking final level. Remember only three of the jacks are holding the coach up and the the fourth is only grounded. Should the rear or left side be higher than required, the computer will bleed pressure from the out of level jacks lowering the coach. Should any cardinal direction be below level the computer will start the pump and and pump up that cardinal direction.

A scenario when manually leveling (with parking brake engaged) is to raise the front two jacks simultaneously. At that point, even if the front tires are off the ground, the rear tires/wheels prevent the motorhome from rolling with the brake engaged.

Then raise the rear jacks simultaneously. At the point of the rear wheels losing contact with the ground, the coach is essentially planted on four stilts. The question I posed is why/how would the motorhome move (or be dangerous, etc.) in this situation? In my previous post I covered the issue of fitness for purpose and improper installation. Those issue notwithstanding, what exactly is the danger/hazard of having all four tires off the ground?

[Bill Johnson]

dkoldman Mine is the same way, I think it looks great with the front wheels off the ground, like doing a wheelie. This is what I do on the weekends, that 7.3 with 40 pounds of boost

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

35 posts so far and still no definitive fact based answer as to WHY not to lift tires/wheels with hydraulic leveling jacks.

35 posts on the 15th thread in just this Forum regarding this subject.