How Thor disappoints us all - Page 3

fairfieldwizard · 07-13-2018, 10:06 AM

As I read the posts here, I find it fascinating to me what RV owners put up with. We all want to love the concept of owning a motorhome and they are beautiful. Why is it that we tolerate wiring hacks, poor construction and just plain junky quality. While I was dealing with a blown up 12 vdc controller board that was installed in the engine compartment in s place behind the cowl making it impossible to work on, I learned from the board manufacturer that they alerted Thor of a potential catastrophic wiring error. When I say catastrophic I mean that failure would result in the engine stopping while the coach is in motion. He sent me the service bulletin, which, to date doesn't appear in public.
It reminds me (as it should remind many of you) of the 1970's when after taking delivery of a new car, you drove it home for a week and then brought it back in a week so the dealer could fix everything that's not working. Then, Toyota and others decided to do things differently. "Why not just test everything to make sure it all works before it leaves the factory?" And along with quality improvement processes, that's what they did. Today, they dominate the car business. But we all get cars that work properly in all regards when we take delivery of them, they require virtually no maintenance for thousands of trouble-free miles.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Thor RV Forum mobile app

The Gritz Carlton · 07-13-2018, 11:07 AM

The longer this thread goes, the numbers are still consistent. Most are pleased with their coaches and purchased knowing the playing field. I just got back from our beach house in PCB working on a number of things, along with having A/C repaired. Wife called me down there and said A/C at home was not cooling here either. As I sit here this moment in my 35SF plugged in at home, A/C blowing cold as I wait for my A/C tech to show up...I'm kinda lovin' it. One of the CS reps with Thor told me a few weeks ago, the problems with their units are directly related to specific plants they are made in. The plant that put mine together must be one of the better ones. Very nicely done and have had no issues so far. My heart does bleed for the few that have major issues...like the guy a few days ago that had water pouring in everywhere in his 2018 unit...not to mention the mile long list of other issues he was experiencing. It seems most of the issues people have are with the gas A's. It would be interesting to see the demographics of complaints/repairs vs. model numbers.

Oneilkeys · 07-13-2018, 12:02 PM

I just purchased a new condo built in the shell of an old school building. The 39 units are all a little different and hand built by inexperienced people to craftsmen. The building was gutted so all electrical and plumbing are new from the ground up. The number of issues that we have had in the building reminds me of the complaints in this forum about Thor RVs. Depending on the person who did the work on your condo and the day that they did it, it might be perfect to non-functional. In the great scheme of things we have been relatively lucky and had only a few issues, most of which I could fix. However others have had major work done on theirs. Luckily I have had the same luck with both my 2014 Vegas and 2016 Axis. My point here is that when you build large, complex “things”, one unit at a time with experienced and inexperienced people, you are going to have issues. Management oversight and quality control are critical to catch the problems that you are going to inevitably have. The really good “constructors” have that oversight capability and really use it. However, that is expensive and slows down completion of the final product - adding to the cost. In addition, if the buyer of the unit is not at least a little handy and willing to fix minor items, the frustration grows as he waits for all the little as well as major things to be fixed. I see it in my condo. In the RV business it seems that the catch phrase “you gets what you pay for” is particularly true.

Pete'sMH · 07-13-2018, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairfieldwizard

As I read the posts here, I find it fascinating to me what RV owners put up with. We all want to love the concept of owning a motorhome and they are beautiful. Why is it that we tolerate wiring hacks, poor construction and just plain junky quality. While I was dealing with a blown up 12 vdc controller board that was installed in the engine compartment in s place behind the cowl making it impossible to work on, I learned from the board manufacturer that they alerted Thor of a potential catastrophic wiring error. When I say catastrophic I mean that failure would result in the engine stopping while the coach is in motion. He sent me the service bulletin, which, to date doesn't appear in public.
It reminds me (as it should remind many of you) of the 1970's when after taking delivery of a new car, you drove it home for a week and then brought it back in a week so the dealer could fix everything that's not working. Then, Toyota and others decided to do things differently. "Why not just test everything to make sure it all works before it leaves the factory?" And along with quality improvement processes, that's what they did. Today, they dominate the car business. But we all get cars that work properly in all regards when we take delivery of them, they require virtually no maintenance for thousands of trouble-free miles.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Thor RV Forum mobile app

With respect, we put up with it, in part, because we choose to purchase entry to mid-level products. Thor makes no apologies about serving the bottom end of the market and that’s where we are. It’s hard to believe maybe that a $60-100,000 vehicle can be entry level but it is. My Freedom Elite cost substantially less than a nice pickup truck and that doesn’t happen without a cost in quality. You can buy a road bicycle at Walmart for $200 or you can buy a nice (though still only mid-level!) Cannondale at a bike shop for $2,000. If you choose to buy from Walmart you forfeit the right to expect Cannondale performance. I do understand that all manufacturers have quality issues but entry level is entry level. That said, I am greatly saddened by many of the troubles reported here even though my own coach has been mostly trouble free.

Pete'sMH · 07-13-2018, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

With respect, we put up with it, in part, because we choose to purchase entry to mid-level products. Thor makes no apologies about serving the bottom end of the market and that’s where we are. It’s hard to believe maybe that a $60-100,000 vehicle can be entry level but it is. My Freedom Elite cost substantially less than a nice pickup truck and that doesn’t happen without a cost in quality. You can buy a road bicycle at Walmart for $200 or you can buy a nice (though still only mid-level!) Cannondale at a bike shop for $2,000. If you choose to buy from Walmart you forfeit the right to expect Cannondale performance. I do understand that all manufacturers have quality issues but entry level is entry level. That said, I am greatly saddened by many of the troubles reported here even though my own coach has been mostly trouble free.

And I should add that CW is the Walmart of the RV world. You don’t get the same level of service on your bicycle at WM that you’d get at the Cannondale dealer!

The Gritz Carlton · 07-13-2018, 01:45 PM

Maybe that's the true difference. I don't consider mine an entry level product, nor do I consider it high-end. It was probably made in a separate plant than the gas A's...not sure. Will be doing a factory tour this Fall. MSRP on mine was $198K and it seems to have been built very well. The volume of this model is no where near what they are cranking out in gas A's so maybe there was more attention to detail. Time will tell.

Muggs · 07-13-2018, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

With respect, we put up with it, in part, because we choose to purchase entry to mid-level products. Thor makes no apologies about serving the bottom end of the market and that’s where we are. It’s hard to believe maybe that a $60-100,000 vehicle can be entry level but it is. My Freedom Elite cost substantially less than a nice pickup truck and that doesn’t happen without a cost in quality. You can buy a road bicycle at Walmart for $200 or you can buy a nice (though still only mid-level!) Cannondale at a bike shop for $2,000. If you choose to buy from Walmart you forfeit the right to expect Cannondale performance. I do understand that all manufacturers have quality issues but entry level is entry level. That said, I am greatly saddened by many of the troubles reported here even though my own coach has been mostly trouble free.

Gritz, keep an eye on your above cab area. One of my racing buddies has same unit and something happened above cab that caused water intrusion. No details yet, but a lot of stuff is being replaced and it has been in service quite a bit of time. They travel a lot and may have hit something.

Our Vegas is effectively replacing a 2007 Chevy Suburban as primary tow vehicle for 5500 lb open race car trailer. The Suburban just passed 12 years on Memorial day. We still have it and many comment how well it has aged. By going to an entry level unit like the Vegas, we have somewhere to cool off at track. My wife now goes to track with our Pup as with her back issues, sitting in Suburban for 16 hour days can be stressful. As an added bonus, we used to pay for WDW hotel rooms and have to get someone to mind Pups. Now we stay in campground and Pup goes along. We have also used RV as a camper, disabled transport and as a moving van.

Many of the manufacturing issues I read about are disappointing. We do not seem to have that after 2 years. The quality of parts used is not high end but usable. Minor things like water pump, $65 from Amazon gets you a spare which in my unit requires 15 minutes to change. My doorlock wore out/broke, I put a new one in. The shower drain nut loosened. Is in an area that flexes because I am heavy. Put resilient hose over entire assembly and eliminated it permanently. Wire routing was sloppy but safe. Connections such as wire nuts were minimal and solid. Fit and finish of cabinets is low grade Home Depot but serviceable.

Being used at racetrack, it gets dirty. I would expect wife would drive me crazy and take outside showers at track if it was over $100K. She keeps this thing as clean as day we picked up and does not complain about mud/grease/sand. She does keep denim on couch/beds and runners on dash. She seems to understand that the Vegas is a utility not a showpiece.

I seems you get what you pay for, if you have any luck at all there will not be major issues. I would like to know the real rate of manufacturing failure in percentage. I meet many people that are happy with all brands. A few that have had issues that would drive me nuts with all brands.

Seems some are justifiably disappointed, I find that disturbing enough that it will likely prevent us going to bigger, more complicated unit.

I honestly do not know if we just got lucky or not. The Vegas cost $67,500, a new Suburban LT was at $72,000 plus tax, tag and title.

We are happy with the Thor Vegas 24.1.

The Gritz Carlton · 07-13-2018, 02:06 PM

"Gritz, keep an eye on your above cab area. One of my racing buddies has same unit and something happened above cab that caused water intrusion"

Thanks...I'll do that. It's one area I watch all the time...it's huge. My regional Thor rep told me they are downsizing that cap for 2019 and make it more streamline.I love the shade it gives the truck cab but sometimes feel it's gonna roll off the top in a turn. Give your buddy my number...I'd like to talk with him more specific about his issue. Plus...any of you can call me anytime...let's talk Camper Crap!!

Don Gordon
678-428-1684

Bob Denman · 07-13-2018, 04:12 PM

I guess that we should just face facts:
There are some folks out there who will complain: even if you beat them with a brand-new baseball bat!

Cason61 · 07-14-2018, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schreinertms

BradnKaren - Also having a Challenger, I noticed that keeping the unit cool is a "challenge", no pun intended, especially when your campsite has no shade. Even running both AC's it struggles to get comfortable. What I noticed is a lot of heat coming from the windshield/front even with the shades down. Seems like a good insulated exterior windshield cover might provide some relief. Have you considered that option?

Yeah, go cheap and get a couple of those car / truck window shades at Walmart and put them up before you close the cloth shade. Is the cloth shade rubber backed cause that helps too.

Mitch0331 · 07-14-2018, 08:35 PM

Have been happy with our 17 Hurricane 34F.

Sure, minor issues. Just returned from a 6500 mile journey and still only minor issues. I fix what I can.

I live in South Florida. Want to hear complaints? Many of my part time neighbors come from Canada with their Prevosts. Spend a mill give or take and have similar issues to we who spend 100k +/-.

I've not met anyone with a motorhome or trailer who has the perfect unit.

Birdman · 07-15-2018, 05:21 PM

One year approximately on our Gemini 24 and very few problems, none really major. Several long trips and numerous shorter trips and we have found there is a lot to do in NC. What I have learned from these forums is there is lot that I do not know and have taken the approach as I have with the Transit. I know nothing about a diesel engine and not much about a gasoline engine. I know nothing about electronics. If something breaks, then so be it. However, I do agree that there are workmanship issues that Thor should really be ashamed of. Good example, everyone should know that particle board will not hold a screw when that screw is under pressure such as bouncing down the road.

Mitch0331 · 11-13-2018, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman

One year approximately on our Gemini 24 and very few problems, none really major. Several long trips and numerous shorter trips and we have found there is a lot to do in NC. What I have learned from these forums is there is lot that I do not know and have taken the approach as I have with the Transit. I know nothing about a diesel engine and not much about a gasoline engine. I know nothing about electronics. If something breaks, then so be it. However, I do agree that there are workmanship issues that Thor should really be ashamed of. Good example, everyone should know that particle board will not hold a screw when that screw is under pressure such as bouncing down the road.

If I encounter such issues I back out the screw, apply wood glue into the hole and screw threads then screw in. This has done well for me in many applications.

HaRVey · 11-14-2018, 06:47 PM

While I've had my share of both major and minor problems on both our new Pakazzo 33.2 and our previous ACE 29.2, I can say that we are very happy with the Palazzo.
The ACE had many fit and finish issues (gaps from engine compartment to drivers pedals, etc.), a bad ECM the first week and most importantly, a bad outer wheel bearing in less than a year which by the grace of God did not send us over the cliff on the trip before I discovered it... but can't blame Thor for Ford issues.

As for the Palazzo, we had a bad VGT actuator and a recent recall for the Freightliner chassis for no taillights, rear marker lights or left turn signal, all of which I'd been driving without for the last 3 months! (kicking myself for not doing a basic check on a brand new vehicle).
The only quality issue I can assign specifically to Thor was the back frame of the kitchen cabinets was not attached to anything which kept the drawers from closing or staying closed. Long story, but the issue was caused by too long of water lines up through the floor interfering with and tearing loose the back frame when the slide is closed.
Like the original poster, I have a good relationship with one of the Thor support team who sends me what I need to fix minor stuff myself and not have to deal with the hassle of dealerships or service centers.

Docgoulart · 11-14-2018, 07:29 PM

I, also, love my Thor......having taken it on it’s first journey, can’t say enough about the Diesel engine in my Gemini. Have had some problems but expected them! My one question remains......How to more effectively drain the black tank.....any comment would be appreciated. Thanks. Mary

Ron1Z · 11-14-2018, 07:32 PM

We purchased our 2018 Windsport 29M in June 2017 off the showroom floor. So far we only have had a few minor problems that I repaired myself and if I needed parts Thor sent them to me. Very happy with Thor and would purchase another one when needed.

Bob Denman · 11-14-2018, 08:35 PM

Time for an admission..

We DID end up trading our Thor in for a different brand. (Tiffin)
It wasn't that the Outlaw didn't make us happy (it did!): it was more because we re-prioritized out needs...

However.... Thor's quality control was a part of the consideration...

Long & Winding road · 11-14-2018, 10:36 PM

So Bob are you still going to hang around us low lifes with "Thors" or will you grace us with your presents regardless? LOL.

Its gonig to be hard to beat this Forum community IMO. And I for one dont want you to leave.

Have you signed up the Tiffin Forums yet? If so how do you like them so far?

Laco · 11-15-2018, 12:08 AM

Thor like all RV manufactures, uses less then highly skilled workers on the assembly lines. If they used licensed electricians, plumbers etc., the cost would be so high, they would virtually be unmarketable. Buying a high end coach does not eliminate the assembly issues, as Provost uses the same less then highly skilled assembly workers. There is a Provost repair facility, not that far from where I live, and they are backed up for months, like any other RV dealer, and most Provosts sell in the 2 million dollar range. RV's are very complex and assembly and product quality regulations are very lax or non-existent. Every new RV I have had, and others I know, pretty much plan on spending the first year trying to recover from the manufacturing process. My coach, prior to the Gemini, was a fairly high end 41 foot DP, and I spent the better part of the first two years repairing and debugging. The Gemini, though it has had a number of smallish annoying issues, really hasn't been that terrible, and as of now, everything is fully functional. I of course wish it had been problem free, but I did not expect that, and the problems I did have, Thor and the dealer took care of to my satisfaction.

Bob Denman · 11-15-2018, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

So Bob are you still going to hang around us low lifes with "Thors" or will you grace us with your presents regardless? LOL.

Its gonig to be hard to beat this Forum community IMO. And I for one dont want you to leave.

Have you signed up the Tiffin Forums yet? If so how do you like them so far?

You're not getting rid of me THAT easy!

I've been kicking around in a Tiffin forum: they wear their collars awfully tight...

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