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Old 06-24-2018, 07:53 PM   #21
vkb
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Model: Axis 24.1 KC's Big Box
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Itís a B+ by Coachmen. I havenít looked at it other than on Internet, and may not. Itís size does split the difference between a van and Axis, so thatís a big plus. However, we are also not big fans of the Ford Transit cab for motorhome use. Maybe recent revisions have helped ó donít know.

At 24 feet itís the same length as my previous ďCĒ but narrower and lower, and seems roomy in pictures for 2 people by sacrificing the bedroom. I also like the forward facing seats, no slide, and space to occassionally sleep 2 children, but it would come down to how easy the queen bed was to lower, and whether getting in it was easy as we get older.

I like the overall packaging, but not sure about the details. It may be worth a look. Other than not having a bicycle garage and permanent beds (like Euro units that size), itís close to what Iíve been looking for.
Chance Ö That Coachman is on the same chassis as the Travato Ö Ron drove it...he said it was 'ok' .. As I said in another post..my biggest problem with the Camper Vans is the extremely small refrig. I could adjust to the small microwave...all we do is heat coffee and some food items or snacks anyway... The wet bath...we dealt with that in our first motorhome..that 21' StarflyteÖ it was doable. I have been curious about the overhead Queen which is lowered. At our age...I think, getting into and out of in the middle of the night would be a real challenge !

We STILL LOVE OUR AXIS .. I will be greatly surprised if Ron makes the change.

In addition, Chance...Ron sez...if you don't like a slide...just don't use it !!
ya ya we know...it is the weight etc. of it being there.


I hope you find an RV you like...sounds like you are close !
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Old 06-24-2018, 08:22 PM   #22
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From the perspective of size/vs MPG. Since most of my driving is over 45 MPH. Weight of accessories/slide/trailer seems to have little impact on MPG. The combination of torque curve, gearing and tire diameter gives me impression that there is significant reserve power available in the e450 combination. I think they all come with 4.56 rear gear. 4.10 would improve MPG but there would be a reduction in GCVW and the ability to match traffic.

The 24.1 slide does not need to out to use RV. I do not even put it out if at track alone. No utilities are on slide and it is light. I have no doubt I can push in by myself in event of failure. The ease of use, general utility and overall cost effectiveness of this unit is impressive for our application.

Beyond racecar tow duty, we will be taking grandson (9) to see the Alabama, then off to blue ridge then to farm in NC. Later on we go to Ft Wilderness for 10 days.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by vkb View Post
Chance Ö That Coachman is on the same chassis as the Travato Ö Ron drove it...he said it was 'ok' .. As I said in another post..my biggest problem with the Camper Vans is the extremely small refrig. I could adjust to the small microwave...all we do is heat coffee and some food items or snacks anyway... The wet bath...we dealt with that in our first motorhome..that 21' StarflyteÖ it was doable. I have been curious about the overhead Queen which is lowered. At our age...I think, getting into and out of in the middle of the night would be a real challenge !

We STILL LOVE OUR AXIS .. I will be greatly surprised if Ron makes the change.

In addition, Chance...Ron sez...if you don't like a slide...just don't use it !!
ya ya we know...it is the weight etc. of it being there.


I hope you find an RV you like...sounds like you are close !
Kay, I believe the Coachmen Oriůn started out on the RAM ProMaster chassis (same as Travato), but Coachmen appears to have switched it over to the Ford Transit last year, or year before that. The Ford has rear wheel drive, plus an extra ~ 1,000 pounds GVWR.

I think the problem Coachmen probably had when building on the ProMaster chassis is that the cargo carrying capacity wasnít adequate; particularly for the rear axle. Other similar-size Class B+ on ProMaster chassis (like the REV) had weight issues.

The Travato, being a pure van camper, is much smaller and lighter, and therefore has much more cargo carrying capacity. Also, since the Travato can get 16 ~ 17 MPG, the range is much better. Itís not great, but itís OK.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:41 PM   #24
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Range was one of the bigger factors in our decision to move from a travel trailer to our current ACE 30.1. We pulled a 24ft Keystone Passport with a Nissan Armada. No problems pulling the trailer, but as soon as we filled up with gas we were planning the next stop.

The Armada had a 25 gallon tank, but we generally got 7-8 MPG while towing, so at best a 200 and more realistically a 150 mile range, but we generally filled up every 100-120 miles as you can never count on a gas station that would allow us in and out appearing when you are below 1/4 tank. When we pulled in to a campsite for the night, the first order of business after unhitching was to go find a gas station.

With the ACE we have a 80 gallon tank and get the same 7-8 MPG. That gets us around 500 miles if you account for some generator usage.

Second big reason for moving to the ACE was ease of setup. A few years ago we'd pulled into an RV park in Steamboat Springs and spent 30 minutes getting unhitched, leveled and set up. Just about then a guy pulls up in a brand new Phaeton. He pulls in, depressures the bags, and lowers the leveling feet. Then the door opens and guy comes out with a lawn chair and beer and sits down. Wife says "why can't we do that". Now we can, just without all the glitz.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:14 PM   #25
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I agree that fuel range sould be a consideration for people who do some traveling. We have made 3 trips to the west coast, from Vermont, and even in the lower 48 there are, or were, several stretches of over 100 miles between gas stations.


If you are expecting 12mpg i think this is very optimistic. We range between 8 an 10 mpg with about 9 being average. Of course my rig is 12 years old but the same engines are still being used.
Yeah, I remember pulling an RV trailer that killed mileage for my Truck to 7-8 miles per gallon with a 26 gallon tank. Then I saw a sign in Oregon that said "next services 179 miles" and they were not joking either. Luckely I had a spare gas can with 5 gallons, just in case. Just made it with less than a 1/8th tank and the fuel lite was on.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:55 PM   #26
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Short of larger Transit fuel tank ....

This may sound like heresy to Transit fans, but it seems to me that one solution could be to switch these smaller, lighter, narrower, and lower-profile B+ gas rigs to Ford Econoline chassis with SRW and similar 158Ē wheelbase.

With TPMS, single rear wheels shouldnít be as big a concern, which is partly why we now see many large 5ers being pulled by SRW pickups.

A similar-size (to Coachmen) compact B+ on Econoline with 6.2L truck V8 might only get 11 MPG instead of 12 MPG on Transit with 3.7L gas V6 (Iím excluding diesels), and it may not drive as smoothly, but I think it would be a lot more rugged and the cab more RV friendly. Towing capacity might be a lot higher also.

Granted, the SRW Econoline Cutaway chassis is only available with 40-gallon fuel tank, but at 11 MPG the range would be identical to larger Class Cs that get 8 MPG with 55-gallon tank.

Itís unfortunate that since the Firestone tire debacle, weíve had minimal interest in SRW RVs in US. The Thor 19G Class C was one of the last I recall, and that was only ~ 20-ft and on 138Ē WB chassis. A slightly larger version, like Coachmen T24RB above, may go over even better.


By the way, thanks for all comments.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:23 PM   #27
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Watching with interest....
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:23 PM   #28
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Chnce,
I might have missed this earlier
What is it about the diesels, that causes you to avoid them?
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:58 PM   #29
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Before my Vegas and Axis I had a 21í Phoenix Cruiser, on a Ford E-350 158Ē WB, that we loved. With a small slide and kitchen and shower in the rear, with a rear side door entry, it was perfect for 21í. We took it to Alaska from Florida (three months +) and put 36,000 miles on it in 3 years. With the 55 gal tank and over 10mpg, we had a 500 mile range. We traded it for a Vegas 24.1 in 2014 because DW was sick of making the bed on the fold out couch - which was not all that comfortable. The extra 3-4í of the Vegas gave us a separate bedroom. But 21í was easier to park and drive downtown. Life is a compromise.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:10 AM   #30
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Chnce,
I might have missed this earlier
What is it about the diesels, that causes you to avoid them?
I just have never been able to justify a diesel in a 21-25í RV. While I have driven diesel rental cars all over Europe and love them, the additional cost of a diesel in a small RV just doesnít seem to make sense to me. Few people drive an RV over 100-150k miles which is about the minimum break point to make the additional cost of the diesel worth it. While the gas mileage is better, the cost of oil changes and maintenance balance that out to some degree. In addition, you can always find someone to work on and find parts for a Ford gas engine and chassis. A lot of people love their small diesels and I am not knocking that. I just canít see a big advantage with the large upfront cost.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:18 AM   #31
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But you should be able to see a better range between fill-ups. Isn't that worth something to you?
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:27 AM   #32
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I was thinking of the many E-Series options because today was the scheduled day for 2019 Model Year to start.

Hope they made it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Chnce,
I might have missed this earlier
What is it about the diesels, that causes you to avoid them?
I helped my dad work on diesels when I was young, but they were much simpler back then. I recall one that operated at full load for 2 years straight with only short stops for oil and filter changes. That would be more than 1,000,000 miles if in an RV. But does that matter when average RV gets driven 5,000 per year?

When I studied engineering we covered CI and SI engines equally. There is nothing really wrong with diesels, but lately as gasoline (SI) engines have gotten more reliable and efficient, their diesel (CI) counterparts have gotten less reliable due to all the emissions equipment.

For vehicles that don’t get driven much, diesel payback is poor. They are noisier, and pollute more (now relatively clean compared to old diesels, but at expense of complexity and higher costs).

I just think gasoline fuel is easier to find, and if you need emergency repairs in middle of nowhere, gas is better choice. Diesel is a better choice if driving 100,000 miles a year. Most of us fall in the middle, so it comes down to personal preference.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:33 AM   #33
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But you should be able to see a better range between fill-ups. Isn't that worth something to you?
Or you can install a larger fuel tank which is a lot cheaper and lighter if range is the main concern. Iím surprised Ford doesnít offer a tank larger than 25 gallons for Transit.
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:12 PM   #34
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I agree with the larger fuel tank option... if it is even possible!
We'd need some "under the belly" pictures and diagrams; to figure out what can be accomplished!
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:26 PM   #35
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Biggest advantage to diesel is POWER, better mileage and less maintenance. Today's diesels are perfected, quiet and clean burning power plants. My coach weights in around 20K pounds, gets 11.7 MPG and blows up hills full speed without lugging or transmission dropping down a single gear and the range is nearly 700 miles. The initial, additional cost for diesel power is insignificant to me as the stress reduction is the offset. The only thing better is what you personally believe in. Better is a state of mind.
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:45 PM   #36
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Diesels like to make torque...
Gas engines like building horsepower!

What was it that Denis Leary said in that commercial?
"Torque is what twists the cap off your beer bottle!"
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton View Post
The initial, additional cost for diesel power is insignificant to me as the stress reduction is the offset. The only thing better is what you personally believe in. Better is a state of mind.
Agreed on that. We chose gas for other reasons - namely the ability to service most of it ourselves plus the ease of finding a shop if it needs work. It was totally a comfort thing. Being less expensive didn't hurt either.
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:14 PM   #38
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I agree with the larger fuel tank option... if it is even possible!
We'd need some "under the belly" pictures and diagrams; to figure out what can be accomplished!

I donít know if Ford is able to address the issue of a larger fuel tank because of safety or other regulations, but Iíd bet there is room for a larger tank, or perhaps a dual-tank system, on Transit Cutaway chassis that have longer wheelbase like those used for motorhomes.

The 25-gallon tank is used on much shorter vans, so on RV chassis that are stretch over 3 feet, there is room to work with. One longer tank may not work well because it may get too long to work properly, but there appears to be plenty of room to have 2 tanks, which Ford does on some trucks.
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:18 PM   #39
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Agreed on that. We chose gas for other reasons - namely the ability to service most of it ourselves plus the ease of finding a shop if it needs work. It was totally a comfort thing. Being less expensive didn't hurt either.

Ford could have installed the PowerStroke Diesel V8 in F-53 years ago, but hasnít. Youíd have to ask yourself why.
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:20 PM   #40
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That's a million dollar question!!
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