Leveling question - setting manual level then auto leveling

[Jusplainwacky]

This has probably already been addressed, but after searching for some time, I couldn't find any posts...so here goes.

I park my coach on the side of my house where I have a nice level concrete pad...and on a side note, I installed a dump station that is connected to the house sewer line, which is really nice.

Anyway, I discovered that when I take my coach out, and extend the slide-out, the countertop is not level, which I'm sure is caused from the weight of the slide-out.

So, the other day while at home, and the coach up on its jacks, I decided to manually level the slide-out and reset the "zero/level" point. As I'm sure all you know, to do this, I had to raise/lower the left/right side jacks then the back/front. After I got it all level, I pressed the "store" button...so far so good.

I then retracted the jacks all the way up, waited a bit then pressed the auto-leveling and viola...the slide-out is now level. All is good.

Now, here is my question...let's say that I raised the left side up 5" and the front down 3"...stored that as the leveling point. Now if I was to retract the jacks and again press "auto-level", will the jacks go to the same height that I manually set, or does the auto-level determine the right amount of force to lift the coach to be level? As an example, instead of the coach lifting up the left side 5", it lifted it up 3" and the front down 1".

I hope I explained this in a manner that anyone reading this can understand it.

[16ACE27]

Nope, sorry you didn't. The only thing the auto leveler cares about is putting the coach at the same angles it has stored as the zero leveling point. No force, no pressure, no height is taken into account.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Nope, sorry you didn't. The only thing the auto leveler cares about is putting the coach at the same angles it has stored as the zero leveling point. No force, no pressure, no height is taken into account.

To obtain the angles, the coach has to know how high to raise each jack, so not sure I fully understand your logic.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

To obtain the angles, the coach has to know how high to raise each jack, so not sure I fully understand your logic.

It does that by comparing stored angle information to actual angle information. It has no idea how far a jack is extended.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

It does that by comparing stored angle information to actual angle information. It has no idea how far a jack is extended.

So, let's say I'm on level ground and that I manually level the coach and end up with all the wheels off the ground and set that as the new level point.

Then I retract the jacks and then press auto-level...what you are saying is that it will not level with all the wheels off the ground...correct?

If this is the case, then one cannot auto-level the coach in a manner that takes the most of the weight off the tires...is that right?

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

So, let's say I'm on level ground and that I manually level the coach and end up with all the wheels off the ground and set that as the new level point.

Then I retract the jacks and then press auto-level...what you are saying is that it will not level with all the wheels off the ground...correct?

If this is the case, then one cannot auto-level the coach in a manner that takes the most of the weight off the tires...is that right?

You only met to set null one time. That level is stored. Using auto level then adjusts the coach to level. The travel distance of the individual jacks has no bearing on the stored level condition.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

You only met to set null one time. That level is stored. Using auto level then adjusts the coach to level. The travel distance of the individual jacks has no bearing on the stored level condition.

I understand that you only need to set the "null/leveling point" and that is stored. That is what I did.

It makes sense that the distance the jacks travel is irrelevant cause if a coach is parked on an uneven ground, the jacks aren't going to level the coach based on the travel of the jacks. I get that also.

The reason I was asking this question was to understand if a person could auto level their coach where the majority of weight was not on the tires, but more so on the jacks.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

I understand that you only need to set the "null/leveling point" and that is stored. That is what I did.

It makes sense that the distance the jacks travel is irrelevant cause if a coach is parked on an uneven ground, the jacks aren't going to level the coach based on the travel of the jacks. I get that also.

The reason I was asking this question was to understand if a person could auto level their coach where the majority of weight was not on the tires, but more so on the jacks.

Yes you can as long as the rear wheels are not off the ground and you jacks have the weight capacity.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Yes you can as long as the rear wheels are not off the ground and you jacks have the weight capacity.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

I understand that I can raise and level the coach MANUALLY to any height so that weight of the coach is not so much on the wheels. What I am asking is if the auto-leveling can be set in a manner to accomplish the same thing. If I understand the contributors of this POST, you can't accomplish this using the auto-leveling feature.

[Chateau_Nomad]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Why are you lifting the motorhome more than is required to achieve level? Is it a stability concern? Please explain and someone may have a different approach to helping you achieve your goal.

Just for reference, my hydraulic leveling jacks (Big Foot) are capable of lifting the entire coach... verified by a Big Foot technician. Done properly and in the correct sequence, all four jacks can be safely fully extended. If they couldn't, would you trust them to hold your coach? Just know that the rear wheels should NEVER be completely off the ground unless both front jacks are firmly planted. But once the front is solid, once the rear jacks plant - the coach isn't going anywhere... regardless of whether the rear wheels are touching the ground or not.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Why are you lifting the motorhome more than is required to achieve level? Is it a stability concern?

Just for reference, my hydraulic leveling jacks (Big Foot) are capable of lifting the entire coach... verified by a Big Foot technician. Done properly and in the correct sequence, all four jacks can be safely fully extended. If they couldn't, would you trust them to hold your coach? Just know that the rear wheels should NEVER be completely off the ground unless both front jacks are firmly planted. But once the front is solid, once the rear jacks plant - the coach isn't going anywhere... regardless of whether the rear wheels are touching the ground or not.

I'm not trying to lift the coach more than is required to achieve level. I understand I could lift the whole coach off the ground if I wanted by MANUALLY raising the coach...that is not the subject of this POST.

Allow me to rephrase things...
What I was asking is if the AUTO-LEVELING feature has the ability to level the coach at different heights. As an example, say the coach is level, and then I manually raise the front and sides and reset the "null/level" point.

In order for the jacks to raise the coach higher, the hydraulic pressure has to be greater which would be applied to the jacks. My question was is if the Auto-Leveling system also factors in the hydraulic pressure so that the same pressure would be applied that was achieved by manually leveling the coach. If it did, a person could not only just level the coach, but also level it in a manner to take the weight off the wheels.

That's the question. Perhaps I should have just rephrased my question and asked if the Auto-Leveling controller also stores the hydraulic pressure when a person resets the "null/leveling/zero" point.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

Anyway, I discovered that when I take my coach out, and extend the slide-out, the countertop is not level, which I'm sure is caused from the weight of the slide-out.

First.... you should not be checking the level on a counter-top, table, etc. I can almost guarantee they won't be level even if the coach is really level. You should be checking the level at the floor. And depending on the length of the coach checking the level at the front, center and rear.

Second.... no, you can't program the Auto-Level for different heights. It does not have the level of programming complexity. Its only mission is to get the coach level. The only pressure it cares about from a sensor perspective is the actual pressure when the jacks are retracted so it can tell the Controller to report the jacks are retracted on the control pad.

Third.... I never use Auto-Level because I can level the coach faster and in the fewest moves and without some of the crazy gyrations it can make when you are out in the real world and don't have a nice level concrete pad. Also, in a perfect world the Controller (and depending on the model the additional level sensor) would be placed in the center of the coach. Most are installed to one side or another and I believe that makes the Auto-Level a bit unreliable.

I always manually level by putting down a level 1/3 of the way from the front and a 1/3 away from the rear in the center of the floor. I then manually lower the front jacks till they touch and then the rear till they touch. Then based on what the two levels showed originally I move the jacks accordingly in small movements until level. Once at level, I check all four wheels to make sure they aren't off the ground.

Letting Auto-Level over extend the jacks unnecessarily is a bad thing as it can lead to a bent or broken jack. I have seen more than a few people where that happened.

[CactusJuice]

No. In my experience the auto leveler never goes to the same height twice even in my paved storage area. It usually ends up with the front end four to six inches off the ground even though I can set level in the same spot manually with the wheels still in contact. Not only that, but the process of getting there is rather disturbing as it jacks the front, side to side in a jerky fashion. At a campsite, it is even worse. There it bounces around and occasionally shuts off with a "Low voltage" warning having popped the breakers. The logic needs work.

It is much easier to simply level it manually. I have the Level Mate Pro. I just sit in the chair and use my phone readout to get it as best as I can. One must learn to let perfection go though as the jacks are not precise enough in their movement to allow small movements for exact leveling. Getting that last 0.2" right is a frustrating process that just leaves the coach higher than it really needed to be (mimics the auto process, I guess).

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Judge

First.... you should not be checking the level on a counter-top, table, etc. I can almost guarantee they won't be level even if the coach is really level. You should be checking the level at the floor. And depending on the length of the coach checking the level at the front, center and rear.

I took level readings at various places on the coach.... the floor, inside the microwave, the bedroom cabinets, cooktop, etc... including inside of the refrigerator and kitchen countertops which both are part of the slide-out, and nothing is EXACTLY level...it's all close.

So, in my opinion, it's not going to make any difference if one levels the floor or the slide-out as the difference is trivial.

However, the reason I leveled the slide-out was for two reasons...
One is because that is where the sink is at, and if I get water on the countertop, I don't want that water draining towards the corners of the backsplash/wall where it can do damage over a period of time.

Secondly, and more important to me is that I wanted the cooktop level so when I'm pour oil in the pan, cooking eggs, pancakes, etc...everything isn't flowing to one side of the pan.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

I took level readings at various places on the coach.... the floor, inside the microwave, the bedroom cabinets, cooktop, etc... including inside of the refrigerator and kitchen countertops which both are part of the slide-out, and nothing is EXACTLY level...it's all close.

So, in my opinion, it's not going to make any difference if one levels the floor or the slide-out as the difference is trivial.

However, the reason I leveled the slide-out was for two reasons...
One is because that is where the sink is at, and if I get water on the countertop, I don't want that water draining towards the corners of the backsplash/wall where it can do damage over a period of time.

Secondly, and more important to me is that I wanted the cooktop level so when I'm pour oil in the pan, cooking eggs, pancakes, etc...everything isn't flowing to one side of the pan.

That’s all well and good but……..

Other than leveling being important for fridges that run on propane, it is equally important for the slide structure (not the counter top).

If the counter is not level and square from a build perspective…. which is highly probable…. and you level it based on that point, the chassis can still be off level. If it is out of level enough, it can cause binding of the slide mechanism.

More than one person on this forum has had issues retracting slides because the chassis (best determined at the floor) was not level enough and it caused torquing and then binding while retracting the slide. They then had to move the jacks with the slide exetended, which can be bad for a Schwintek Mechanism.

The actual level quality of your countertop and your chassis may be very close and then a moot point…. just trying to make sure you look at all the angles.

But if you’re really worried about watet and oil in a pan, you should be manually leveling anyway. Auto-Level will not get you there reliably.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Judge

That’s all well and good but……..

Other than leveling being important for fridges that run on propane, it is equally important for the slide structure (not the counter top).

If the counter is not level and square from a build perspective…. which is highly probable…. and you level it based on that point, the chassis can still be off level. If it is out of level enough, it can cause binding of the slide mechanism.

More than one person on this forum has had issues retracting slides because the chassis (best determined at the floor) was not level and it caused torquing and then binding while retracting. They then had to move the jacks with the slide exetended, which can be bad for a Schwintek Mechanism.

I think it's splitting hairs...if one levels the countertop, slide-out, floor...as nothing that should be level is that far off. I would be willing to bet that if you leveled the slide-out at one point, it would be slightly off at another.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

I think it's splitting hairs...if one levels the countertop, slide-out, floor...as nothing that should be level is that far off. I would be willing to bet that if you leveled the slide-out at one point, it would be slightly off at another.

Ok…. then fine.

So why in the hell would you even be using Auto-Level if you are trying to get it so perfect that water and oil don’t run in a particular direction each and every time you level???? [emoji3166]

That would seem Just Plain Wacky…. Pun intended!

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Judge

Ok…. then fine.

So why in the hell would you even be trying to use Auto-Level if you are trying to get it so perfect that water and oil don’t run in a particular direction each and every time you level???? [emoji3166]

If you manually tried to level the coach using the cooktop/countertop as the reference, you'd have to go back and forth looking at the level and back to the controller.

On the other hand, if you set your reference level using the countertop/slide-out and stored that in the level controller, it goes to that level each time....so I don't have to manually level it each time.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

I understand that I can raise ...

LEVEL has nothing to do with HEIGHT.
The system is measuring level and pumping fluid into the jacks to reach LEVEL.
It will continue pumping until the LEVEL zero recorded it reach.
If it reaches the maximum the jacks can go it will throw an error code.
There are no sensors to measure HEIGHT so, technically, the system could lift all wheels off the ground if it can't reach LEVEL before that.

That is the reason many of us manually level for our "sensor" is a more refined one and we can reach LEVEL at a lower HEIGHT.
For example, lets say you are level w/o any jacks down.
The system will raise the front until it feels it is unlevel then it will raise the rear until it feels the jacks are on the round and so on...
When we manually level, we feel the jacks have touched the ground way before the coach sensor would so the final HEIGHT end up being lower because our "sensor" is a better one...

Anyway, the "final word" of when it is level is the zero point in the coach system.

Again, LEVEL has nothing to do with HEIGHT.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

LEVEL has nothing to do with HEIGHT.
The system is measuring level and pumping fluid into the jacks to reach LEVEL.
It will continue pumping until the LEVEL zero recorded.
If it reaches the maximum the jacks can go it will throw an error code.
There are no sensors to measure HEIGHT so, technically, the system could lift all wheels off the ground if it can't reach LEVEL before that.

That is the reason many of us manually level for our "sensor" is a more refined one and we can reach LEVEL at a lower HEIGHT.

Again, LEVEL has nothing to do with HEIGHT.

I think we all understand that level has nothing to do with height.

The question was if a person leveled their coach at a certain height, which would be the result of hydraulic pressure (not some height sensor which makes no sense especially if the ground was uneven), does the controller have a pressure sensor where it can level the coach to that same height.