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06-06-2022, 05:31 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Illinois
Posts: 4
THOR #25775
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Tellaro lithium batteries – 2022
We have a 2022 THOR Tellaro L. How long should the lithium batteries last when you are Boondocking? Seems we barely get eight hours?!
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06-06-2022, 05:41 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,117
THOR #7035
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Depends on what loads you are running and the size of your battery bank. Do you have the 200 AH bank or the larger bank?
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Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
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06-06-2022, 05:42 PM
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#3
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Junior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Illinois
Posts: 4
THOR #25775
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Lithium batteries versus generator
Have a new 2022 Thor Tellaro LT - due to shortages with generators we paid extra for lithium batteries. Now it seems to barely get useful enough electrical power to run vehicle when Boondocking ( Coffee pot, TV, heat, air-conditioning). Anyone have any information for how long you can run with a generator versus lithium batteries?
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06-06-2022, 05:52 PM
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#4
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Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,726
THOR #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billikim
Have a new 2022 Thor Tellaro LT - due to shortages with generators we paid extra for lithium batteries. Now it seems to barely get useful enough electrical power to run vehicle when Boondocking ( Coffee pot, TV, heat, air-conditioning). Anyone have any information for how long you can run with a generator versus lithium batteries?
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With a generator you can run until you run out of fuel (approx 1/4 tank).
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06-06-2022, 05:58 PM
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#5
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Site Team
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,117
THOR #7035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billikim
Have a new 2022 Thor Tellaro LT - due to shortages with generators we paid extra for lithium batteries. Now it seems to barely get useful enough electrical power to run vehicle when Boondocking ( Coffee pot, TV, heat, air-conditioning). Anyone have any information for how long you can run with a generator versus lithium batteries?
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Did you get the extra alternator to use your engine to charge the batteries? Can't use all those high power things without draining the batteries.
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Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
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06-08-2022, 01:27 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2022 Sanctuary
State: Florida
Posts: 390
THOR #26179
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My Sanctuary has the 400AH LI batt. system with a 3000 watt Inverter & my testing with the A/C running on batteries @ 100% ,alone , about four or maybe squeeze out five hours , depending on many factors ,of course .
I also have the second 280 Amp. Alternator , so taking a drive will charge House Batteries pretty quick . My Solar Panel will help a little with recharging the Batteries , but not much .
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06-08-2022, 02:11 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,584
THOR #13058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billikim
Have a new 2022 Thor Tellaro LT - due to shortages with generators we paid extra for lithium batteries. Now it seems to barely get useful enough electrical power to run vehicle when Boondocking ( Coffee pot, TV, heat, air-conditioning). Anyone have any information for how long you can run with a generator versus lithium batteries?
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Theoretically you could run infinitely if you had a generator. You set you generator's AGS to recharge your house batteries when they get down to a low SOC. Does not matter if you have FLA, AGM or Lithium.
When boondocking, my generator runs 2 hours a day. I think you are saying you do NOT have a generator; so not sure I follow what you are looking to accomplish now because you paid to buy Lithium's, but if you did not save for not getting a generator that is peculiar?
Can't you run the engine to recharge the lithium's when boondocking? If not, you may have to go all in and buy more Lithium's, maybe back off some energy usage?
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2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
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06-08-2022, 12:35 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: THOR Chateua 35SF
State: Florida
Posts: 5,850
THOR #11130
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It's the same delima as electric cars vs. ICE...everything is a sacrifice. If you boondock a lot, carry a small portable generator that will at least run your A/C. Seems the only factor not considered when eliminating gas/diesel generators is A/C over a long period of time. To some...no issue...but to us, we boondock for days at a time. I'd rather run a generator than the chassis engine. That seems counterintuitive.
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Now an SOB
Traded Thor for Melbourne Prestige 24NP
2018 THOR Chateau 35SF
Two Labs, Bugsie & Blondie
Blondie passed in 2020 at 5 to Leukemia
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06-08-2022, 01:19 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: SV34
State: Arizona
Posts: 283
THOR #24580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billikim
We have a 2022 THOR Tellaro L. How long should the lithium batteries last when you are Boondocking? Seems we barely get eight hours?!
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For starters figure out how much battery capacity (amp hours) and solar (watts) you have. If you paid for extra batteries and solar you should see it on your paperwork somewhere or look at you batteries and the number of panels on you roof. As others have said the A/C is what is killing you. Did you get more solar power for input?
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RV: 2021 Class C Magnitude SV34
Toad: 2015 2dr Jeep Wrangler
Motorcycles: BMW K 1600 B, Harley Davidson Heritage Softail (EVO)
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06-08-2022, 01:36 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 34R
State: Indiana
Posts: 608
THOR #19887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billikim
We have a 2022 THOR Tellaro L. How long should the lithium batteries last when you are Boondocking? Seems we barely get eight hours?!
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Since each owner have a different use for their RV, I would recommend starting with finding out how many amperes hour (AH) you use daily while boondocking.
For that you need to have a battery monitor that measures exactly what gets in and out of the battery(ies) when you are boondocking.
I have a Victron 712 whic is really nice but there are others.
After finding that out, you need to decide how long you want the batteries to last and from there you can calculate, in AH, how many AH are lacking and then decide how you will get that (Generator, solar, more batteries?, etc)
This seems complicated and time consuming but it really saves time and $.
Just adding more batteries or solar may not make the trick if it is not enough or your charger controller/system is not designed for that.
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06-08-2022, 02:30 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton
It's the same delima as electric cars vs. ICE...everything is a sacrifice. If you boondock a lot, carry a small portable generator that will at least run your A/C. Seems the only factor not considered when eliminating gas/diesel generators is A/C over a long period of time. To some...no issue...but to us, we boondock for days at a time. I'd rather run a generator than the chassis engine. That seems counterintuitive.
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It’s a simple energy balance problem that has been discussed on this forum for years in numerous threads, yet the concept is difficult for non-technical to grasp; and that’s understandable. My concern is that manufacturers and sales people are stretching the truth on system capabilities, which they don’t fully understand themselves, and will lead to a lot of unhappy campers.
Indeed it is easy and relatively cost-effective to replace a generator with lithium batteries “except” for powering an air conditioner for long periods of time, particularly during the day. Even small well-insulated vans with 600 Ah of battery at 12 VDC (~ 7.5 kWh) will drain the batteries in 5~6 hours or less enough to require recharging, and even with dedicated 280 Amp alternator charging at 160~200 Amps during fast idling it will take 2~3 hours to charge batteries back up and start the cycle again. That much idling may be OK if you only do it one or two days a year, but not on a regular basis.
Lithium battery systems are ideal to replace generator for people who go from campground to campground with full hookups. Also for travelers/touring that drive every day and boondock only at night. Or for people who camp/boondock in cool weather and only use air conditioner on shore power at campgrounds.
To boondock off the grid for extended periods like you describe doing yourself, this type of lithium-battery system without generator is not practical yet at a reasonable cost. It can be designed and built, but requires battery charging at least 5 to 10 times faster than discharge rate; and that’s not easy or inexpensive.
Some expensive systems have alternators that charge at 6 to 10 kW which means the vehicle engine would only have to run an hour at a time once in a while instead of running a generator 24 hours a day to power an air conditioner. And they have enough battery capacity to power air conditioner through the night; an important feature to many for various reasons.
Again, my concern is that manufacturers have watered-down these lithium battery systems without fully communicating their limitations. Basically, not all lithium systems are even close to the same; yet some buyers don’t seem to know all the differences.
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06-11-2022, 06:11 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Regency Ultra Brougham IB
State: Arizona
Posts: 108
THOR #13468
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Did I understand you correctly to say that you are running the AC off of your Lithium batteries? If so, you should not expect to get much time before those batteries are too low to use.
We have 300 AH of BB Lithium batteries in our RV, and 400 watts of solar. My wife often uses her electric tea pot and the toaster while boondocking and we can get about 2-3 days with modest sunshine, double that with strong sunshine, before we run out of battery power. We use the electric tea pot, the toaster, some 120 vac fans, we watch a DVD on the TV before we go to sleep and generally don't have any problems. But we would not try to run the AC.
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06-11-2022, 10:16 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Brand: Crossroads
Model: Sunset Trail 29SS
State: Michigan
Posts: 10
THOR #475
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From the Thor Tellaro website, the lithium upgrade is 460 A/hrs and the vehicle does include alternator charging of the battery pack.
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06-11-2022, 10:36 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 6,759
THOR #13932
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Oddly, I could run my single 15k ac through my inverter with just two type 24 wet cells all day long if I was running the v10.
If the engine was off the ac would kick over...maybe, and do about three minutes.
I've since taken the ac off of the inverter circuit.
I said many times in my early motorcoach life that I would do the THREE alternator v10 bracket the very day it was time to change belts or a water pump and add twelve 6v batteries.
I have changed due to this forum(and I was being silly trying to use those damn batteries I already had)
Having a motorcoach without a generator is pretty wrong from every angle that involves ac.
Add a generator to make life easy not fad driven.
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06-11-2022, 11:53 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,584
THOR #13058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface
I have changed due to this forum(and I was being silly trying to use those damn batteries I already had)
Having a motorcoach without a generator is pretty wrong from every angle that involves ac.
Add a generator to make life easy not fad driven.
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As a newbie RV owner a few years ago, I was somewhat taken back with the number of people not only bashing generators, but actually taking them out in favor of Lithium. It reminds me of looking at a ZL1 Camaro at a Dealer's Showroom with $130K MSRP; and guess what; it came with no AC
Before buying our RV, from what I learned on this site among many things was to decide if AC was important? For me it is EVERYTHING; so I was sure to make sure my unit had 2 ACs. From there, I needed a way to get them power anytime I wanted, I got lucky because my generator came with my RV, no extra cost However, I did invest in Onan EC-30 that will start the generator to power those ACs whenever the coach reached a temperature we thought was too hot. Ironically we use this a lot while driving. i.e. I set my Thermostat at 78; we leave for trip with just the dash air on and all as good, but at some point the heat outside may overcome the ability to keep the coach cool; so at 78 degrees, the genny fires up and the AC starts. It runs and cycles on and off throughout the trip to keep the temp constant.
I don't have the ability to run my AC(s) off inverter or batteries nor have I ever needed too.
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
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06-12-2022, 12:18 AM
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#16
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Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,726
THOR #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman
As a newbie RV owner a few years ago, I was somewhat taken back with the number of people not only bashing generators, but actually taking them out in favor of Lithium. It reminds me of looking at a ZL1 Camaro at a Dealer's Showroom with $130K MSRP; and guess what; it came with no AC
Before buying our RV, from what I learned on this site among many things was to decide if AC was important? For me it is EVERYTHING; so I was sure to make sure my unit had 2 ACs. From there, I needed a way to get them power anytime I wanted, I got lucky because my generator came with my RV, no extra cost However, I did invest in Onan EC-30 that will start the generator to power those ACs whenever the coach reached a temperature we thought was too hot. Ironically we use this a lot while driving. i.e. I set my Thermostat at 78; we leave for trip with just the dash air on and all as good, but at some point the heat outside may overcome the ability to keep the coach cool; so at 78 degrees, the genny fires up and the AC starts. It runs and cycles on and off throughout the trip to keep the temp constant.
I don't have the ability to run my AC(s) off inverter or batteries nor have I ever needed too.
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Well said.
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06-12-2022, 02:58 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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Most RVs don’t have generators. Why is going without a generator now a fad?
I expect you guys are referring to motorhomes only, but Americans have been camping in trailers without generators for over half a century; or much longer.
No one is saying generators are not great to have, but why can’t some motorhome owners not be able to camp like trailer owners? Actually, RVs with lithium/inverter systems have much greater electrical capabilities than typical (common) camping trailers.
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06-12-2022, 03:24 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 29M
State: Texas
Posts: 2,672
THOR #11781
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I tend to agree with Chance that salepeople are overstating the capabilities of these new coaches. They will tell the new owner anything they want to hear to close the sale. The sales staff are not telling the potential buyer the limitations of the lithium package. it doesn't matter to the sales person, the commission check has already been cashed by the time the new owner realizes they were sold a bill of goods.
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Lt Keefer
2018 Hurricane 29M
CHF, Saf-T-Plus, SumoSprings
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06-12-2022, 01:16 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 5,584
THOR #13058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Most RVs don’t have generators. Why is going without a generator now a fad?
I expect you guys are referring to motorhomes only, but Americans have been camping in trailers without generators for over half a century; or much longer.
No one is saying generators are not great to have, but why can’t some motorhome owners not be able to camp like trailer owners? Actually, RVs with lithium/inverter systems have much greater electrical capabilities than typical (common) camping trailers.
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You can, I have camped in tents and spent a many of nights sleeping outside on a boat on the lake with no AC.
But the OP was asking about Lithium versus Generators and seems to have an issue that he only got 8 hrs of battery usage (forget air)? You buy what you need. Maybe OP was simply trying to clarify what he needed for his purposes?
__________________
2019 Sunstar 29ve; Toad Lincoln Navigator; RVi Brake 3 & Command Center; Roadmaster Nighthawk Tow bar & Baseplate; Sumo Springs; Safe T Plus; Onan EC-30 AGS; Vmax 250ah AGM; T-Mobile Internet; H/W Heater / Chassis Disconnect Switches; Southwire Surge Guard 44270 & 34951 w/Monitor 40301; Jet Flo Macerator; Alpine SPE500 Speakers; Visio M21D-H8R
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06-12-2022, 01:44 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman
You can, I have camped in tents and spent a many of nights sleeping outside on a boat on the lake with no AC.
But the OP was asking about Lithium versus Generators and seems to have an issue that he only got 8 hrs of battery usage (forget air)? You buy what you need. Maybe OP was simply trying to clarify what he needed for his purposes?
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You are at one “camping” extreme by owning a large motorhome with two air conditioners and needing to power them frequently without shore power.
At other RV extreme exist small trailers where a single battery powers LED lights, water pump, ceiling fan, and furnace blower. It is mostly understood by buyers that when small trailers have built-in microwaves and or air conditioners, owners must hook up to shore power or else bring along a Honda portable generator or similar source of electricity.
Class B vans (what OP has) in my opinion are somewhere in the middle between these two extremes. For decades many van campers had generators but many did not. The lithium/inverter option is a relatively new electrical design that splits the difference between vans that had generators and those that had no real source of self-contained electrical power. Unfortunately, it is causing a lot of confusion. Generators and shore power are essentially black and white options in that you have them or you do not. That makes it simple to understand. You have power or you don’t.
By comparison, lithium/inverter systems introduce significant “energy” limitations that affects run time depending on what is running, how hard it is running, the cycle time of air conditioner based on weather, etc. It appears a bit too much for owners to fully grasp limitations because there are too many variables. Generators are simple like shore power. As long as it’s running and there’s plenty of gas in tank, owner doesn’t have to care much whether air conditioner is operating at 50% or 100%.
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