Many defects on 2016 Thor Gemini 23tr. Is it normal?

[InsuredApple]

We picked up our 2016 Thor Gemini 23tr a couple of weeks ago from Fraserway RV. It is our first motorhome and so far we LOVE owning a motorhome. It's really awesome.



Unfortunately, we've found quite a lot of issues. I'm not sure if it's normal to have so many issues... maybe it's normal and my expectations are just too high.

Here are all the issues:

- Tankless water heater doesn't work
- Sewage connection was bent down, couldn't connect to it
- Blinds fell off (and some are loose)
- The fridge panel is detaching
- Loose hinges above the sink
- Outside TV doesn't work
- Drawers don't snap in, keep opening while driving
- There are holes letting in cold air (and we're worried about mice)
- Dashboard panel clip is broken
- Blinds don’t roll up
- Some of the power outlets don't have power

I've also put together blog post on my blog (that no one reads). Added pictures and videos...

Our first motorhome, a 2016 Thor Gemini 23tr – Life of the Insured Apple

Thoughts? Maybe it's a dealer issue, more than a Thor issue?

[JamieGeek]

Did you check if your sewer outlet rotates? On many of the newer Thor models the sewer outlet can swivel around. It is pretty tight, though, so it may take some elbow grease to move it. Yeah watching your video on your blog: That sewer connection should rotate, give it a push or pull.

Sadly, yes this is normal to find some things wrong with the coach. It is both a dealer and Thor issue (Thor builds them crappy, but some of the better dealers go through and fix all the stuff before you get the coach).

When taking it back to the dealer to get service make sure you don't leave it for long (e.g. if they say they have to order parts tell them you'll take the motorhome home and return when the parts come in--don't let them have your RV sit on their lot for months on end).

I hear you about the blog LOL (below is a link to mine--mostly about EVs though).

[InsuredApple]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Did you check if your sewer outlet rotates? On many of the newer Thor models the sewer outlet can swivel around. It is pretty tight, though, so it may take some elbow grease to move it. Yeah watching your video on your blog: That sewer connection should rotate, give it a push or pull.

Sadly, yes this is normal to find some things wrong with the coach. It is both a dealer and Thor issue (Thor builds them crappy, but some of the better dealers go through and fix all the stuff before you get the coach).

When taking it back to the dealer to get service make sure you don't leave it for long (e.g. if they say they have to order parts tell them you'll take the motorhome home and return when the parts come in--don't let them have your RV sit on their lot for months on end).

I hear you about the blog LOL (below is a link to mine--mostly about EVs though).

I was able to rotate the sewer outlet. I tried it, but it felt really solid and I didn't want to force it (and break it). When I called Fraserway RV, a tech told me to put some muscle into it.

It is supposed to go back to Fraserway RV at the end of the month to get fixed. We're worried about... what you said... it sitting in their lot and being without it.

Is this yours?

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by InsuredApple

I was able to rotate the sewer outlet. I tried it, but it felt really solid and I didn't want to force it (and break it).

Yeah ours was quite stiff until recently--and this is our 3rd season.

Originally Posted by InsuredApple

Is this yours?

Yup that is our Axis at the Cleveland South East KOA back in August.

[bevedfelker]

Did the water heater work at the dealer's during the PDI?

This unit has a gas tankless water heater rather than the gas/110VAC type in Jamie's and most everyone else's RV. Your water heater only operates on propane. It also only heats the water on demand. Is the valve open on the propane tank? Did you try lighting the stove burners and let them burn for a minute or so to purge all the air from the gas lines?

[KC8RXQ]

Insuredapple,

Yes, RV's all come from their respective manufacturer's with their own special issues. Mine had a laundry list that was recently taken care of but I was able to leave it at the dealership and was not taken advantage of.

Yes, it is a sad shame that Thor won't step out of the RV pack and set the new standard for manufacturing and QC but I guess the don't have to. My dealer (Sonny's Camp-N-Travel, Concord, NC) has a very good service team and both the service manager and the dealership manager are stand-up men that work to help the customer and know how to work within the Thor system. I also know that the factory service representative I talked to (Tim Rhoades) was very knowledgeable and helpful so I no complaints there either. I do have issues with Thor's evident and willful act of letting poorly manufactured products leave their property but at least I have most, if not all, of my issues taken care of...that is until the nest time. At any rate our ownership experiences are part of the RV lifestyle and what would we have to talk about if it weren't for all these opportunities that Thor and the other manufacturers give us? Yes, can you sense the dripping sarcasm?

Best regards and I hope you can enjoy the journey.

[Thordog]

We looked at and almost bought a Thor Compass which is the twin to the Gemini. We were also looking at using it as a mobile work/travel vehicle. When we asked if the TV's would work on 12v, the dealer said - "I haven't seen a 12v TV in 15 years". Most of these guys are clueless. We asked them for info on installing a 1500w inverter and they quoted us $1500 to do that. We would have bought it but the dealer was so arrogant about their price we decided to keep looking. Also the housing around that skylight was loose and almost came crashing down on our heads during the test drive. I didn't understand how the dealer could let someone drive a unit with such a big issue as that was.

We ended up buying a 2017 Thor Freedom Elite 29FE from Camping World and are very happy with it. http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f17...view-5138.html

[gauthig]

Unfortunately, a punch list is normal and not only Thor. Looking at other forums like IRV2 or talking to owners of other units like Wini, Alegro even the high-end Newmar, all have first owner punch lists.

It's one of the pro's when looking at new vs used. Used normal would have all the initial issues fixed. Just like a new house with paint issues, air gaps in doors, wallpaper peeling, trash left in cabinets (yes I found a McDonald's bag in a drawer).

None of this is a real issue as the Dealer and Manufacture will help your to resolve this in the first year.

The real issue is the time spent in the shop. You need to schedule a time advance to drop off the unit, then they start the work. But they are normally backed up and take time in each department.
Here is a real example:
*You call in and get an drop off appointment in 3 weeks.
*Then they get it and and have someone start on issue #1 and document it.
* They then contact Thor for approval which takes several days delay, so they move it out of the bay and back onto the lot.
*When they get the approval, they schedule when it can go back to the bay and have someone work on it. That may be another 5 days to get it started again.
*Work is done and completed for that issue.

I list it out as per issue since the big shops actually have different people work exterior, electrical, plumbing, cabinetry. This results in the same diagnose, contact Thor, wait, repair process to repeat for each different type of issue. So, it could take a long time to get the initial punch list resolved.

Best method, take a trip after your purchase and start documenting everything. Make sure you used every feature a couple of times. Then schedule a time that you can live without it. Full-timers do not have this luxury.

By the way, looking at my and many others on this forum, a good Punch list may have 20 items on it. Many minor, but some major. Just remember to give all issues to the dealer in the first year.

[Thordog]

Better yet, don't pay the dealer for the unit until you test everything. I put together a 4 page punch list that involved testing each component when connected to shore power/water and also repeating using the generator/water pump. We caught a cabinet that was missing a closing catch and they fixed that right there during the PDI.

I think that if you had tested everything most of that stuff could have been caught right there and you could have gotten them to fix it before you took the unit. Hindsight is 20/20 I know but just an FYI for next time.

No excuse though for mounting the solar controller in that spot. I'd go back and make them fix that.

Looking at your blog I really liked that unit. It's smaller and more maneuverable than our rig. Very nicely designed. I'm sure Thor will get all that stuff sorted out and you will be very happy with it.

[InsuredApple]

Wow, thank you very much for all the feedback and insight.

It makes me feel a bit better, knowing that having so many issues with a brand new unit isn't something unusual.

Fraserway RV, which is where we bought the unit, isn't that good. The sales staff and the "hand over" service people didn't know the unit at all. Well...

I'm hoping the unit won't be in there for too long. I could do most of the work myself, but why pay for extra warranty and purchase something new, if I got to work on it myself?

[InsuredApple]

Originally Posted by KC8RXQ

Insuredapple,

Yes, RV's all come from their respective manufacturer's with their own special issues. Mine had a laundry list that was recently taken care of but I was able to leave it at the dealership and was not taken advantage of.

Yes, it is a sad shame that Thor won't step out of the RV pack and set the new standard for manufacturing and QC but I guess the don't have to. My dealer (Sonny's Camp-N-Travel, Concord, NC) has a very good service team and both the service manager and the dealership manager are stand-up men that work to help the customer and know how to work within the Thor system. I also know that the factory service representative I talked to (Tim Rhoades) was very knowledgeable and helpful so I no complaints there either. I do have issues with Thor's evident and willful act of letting poorly manufactured products leave their property but at least I have most, if not all, of my issues taken care of...that is until the nest time. At any rate our ownership experiences are part of the RV lifestyle and what would we have to talk about if it weren't for all these opportunities that Thor and the other manufacturers give us? Yes, can you sense the dripping sarcasm?

Best regards and I hope you can enjoy the journey.

Originally Posted by Thordog

We looked at and almost bought a Thor Compass which is the twin to the Gemini. We were also looking at using it as a mobile work/travel vehicle. When we asked if the TV's would work on 12v, the dealer said - "I haven't seen a 12v TV in 15 years". Most of these guys are clueless. We asked them for info on installing a 1500w inverter and they quoted us $1500 to do that. We would have bought it but the dealer was so arrogant about their price we decided to keep looking. Also the housing around that skylight was loose and almost came crashing down on our heads during the test drive. I didn't understand how the dealer could let someone drive a unit with such a big issue as that was.

We ended up buying a 2017 Thor Freedom Elite 29FE from Camping World and are very happy with it. http://www.thorforums.com/forums/f17...view-5138.html

Wow, your 2017 Thor Freedom Elite looks amazing. It's quite a bit larger than what we wanted for our first RV. It looks great, so much space!

We'll get something bigger in a couple of years. I'd love to get a unit with 4x4 and better all-season capabilities (and a tad bit more room).

[oldsman41]

wow thats a pretty large list i just bought a 2017 gemini and had 2 things that where a concern. fixed both myself.

[Thordog]

We decided to trad in our Freedom Elite 29FE for a Gemini 23TR. The FE 29FE is just too big a rig for my wife to handle. Also the passenger seat doesn't recline at all since the coach is behind it.

So by not making the correct decision back in the fall it is costing us $12k to trade in our 2017 FE 29FE with just 4000 miles on it.

So I'm curious to hear from InsuredApple as well as others about how the like the Compass/Gemini 23TR?

[nmcmilla]

Originally Posted by Thordog

So I'm curious to hear from InsuredApple as well as others about how the like the Compass/Gemini 23TR?

I like my 2017 Gemini a lot. I bought in December 2016. I did have an assortment of issues --many had been noted by others here on the forum. Due to those forum posts (and not just the Gemini owner posts), I focused in on possible problems right away (caught some in the PDI). Once the Thor warranty repair approvals were given, my Gemini 23TR spent 2 weeks in the Abbotsford Fraserway dealership and most issues were resolved (one non-essential part was still on order but I picked it up anyways -thanks again to comments on this forum to "not let it drag on" at the dealership).
I then spent 3 weeks in it "on the road" finding a few more minor issues which are to be handled "while I wait" in early May. Mid-May onwards I have a variety of RV trips planned so (not wanting to hex myself) am very hopeful I'll not have to check out "on the road" Ford/Thor/Fraserway service.
Tip: I had a lot of trouble swiveling the passenger seat. I saw it done but when it came time for me to actually do it alone... not so easy;-) it I found it very frustrating. Maybe do it yourself under supervision the 1st time. Nancy

[chief90]

I too have a new RV 2016 Thor Tuscany XTE40AX and have a punch list of oh about 60 items, the biggest item are the gaskets on all 3 of my slides one is missing and the others are drooping, the salesman sent me the PDI check list, I was concerned about the gaskets and sealant around the windows, slides, doors etc. I have been pondering how I will address all these issues with the owners where I purchased this RV. I agree with the other posts, Thor should have a better QA team, I did research Thor products but did not see any negative reviews on the Class A that I purchased. Everything should be under warranty. I made a punch list, contacted a reputable dealership, made an appointment for them to go through my punch list, took all day. I have been sending updates to my punch list to the service writer when I noticed issues that are not right. They had to get approval from the warranty department a Thor, now I have an appointment this month to take it to the dealer to work on my punch list. The most important part of my punch list is the slide gaskets. Suzzanne

[joshuawray17]

I've been full-timing in my 2016 Compass 23TR for the past week and I really like it. I've been sleeping on the jack-knife sofa and haven't bothered with the queen bed yet.

My squak list is pretty short:
- Missing jam nut on wheel cover.
- Two broken bed slats on the queen bed.
- One trim panel (crown? moulding) in the bedroom.
- Droopy skylight surround.

These are all things I can take care of pretty easily with parts. Getting parts from Thor/Camping World is my only real challenge here.

Things I would change...
- Bigger propane tank (for boondocking)
- More battery capacity (for boondocking)
- Factory inverter (I will wire in a 2000w model soon)
- Backwash/flush connector for black tank
- More basement storage (i will likely just minimize my belongings more)
- Built-in auto-transformer (volatge regulation)
- Prewire/preinstalled solar (I plan on installing as much wattage as possible)

[Laco]

That's a long list of issues. Our 2017 had issues, but not that many, and they have been handled by the selling dealer. The Gemini is not a 'high end' coach, but everything on it should work. We are coming up to the one year mark, couple of months off, and I will leave it one more time at the dealers, for some minor adjustments, sealing, and tightening. The tank less water heater does work, but has some different characteristics to get used to, not insurmountable, but different. After almost a year with the Gemini, some things about it I really appreciate, like efficient use of limited space, other things about it, leave me wondering. Overall, we find the Gemini fun to use, love how easy to drive it is, and maneuverability in tight spaces.

[Bob Denman]

We pick our (first ever!) RV up this Saturday...
Should we have a legal pad and pen ready for the list?
(Planning in some "driveway camping" over the weekend)

[Laco]

You should operate everything on it with the dealers tech, usually they have a person dedicated to going over everything in the coach with the buyer for delivery. Make sure everything works, have them document anything and everything that needs to be fixed, adjusted or repaired, and you document as well. Either have them fix everything before you accept delivery, or get a hard date from the service department, in writing, as to when you will bring it back, and the anticipated time it will take for them to complete the work. When you do take it out, use everything and make sure you know how everything should work and how it does work. Driveway camping is useful, but the real test is when you get it out and live in it for days at a time. Enjoy!!!!

[Bob Denman]

Thanks!
We've been told that the delivery part of the process (excluding paperwork), should take four hours. I guess that I'll be taking notes, and pointing out deficiencies along the way!
(Hopefully: there will be none that are serious.)