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Old 08-17-2015, 10:50 PM   #21
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Chateau 35SF
State: Missouri
Posts: 713
THOR #2020
It is powered from the toad. It says it is all electric powered from a built in battery but I believe the built in is just in case you loose power in the toad.

http://blueox.com/recreational--flat...k2012-patriot/
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:05 PM   #22
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Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
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With dollies that have surge brakes (or electric for that matter), it would seem that maximum stopping power would be limited by weight from toad's front wheels only; hence the maximum toad's braking contribution would be roughly from 50% to 65%. The rest of the toad's weight sitting over rear wheels would go unbraked. On larger toads that unbraked rear weight could approach the same weight of a small car like a Smart. Obviously there are other factors like how large the motorhome is relative to toad, and also how strong the motorhome brakes are relative to toad's or dolly's.
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:35 PM   #23
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Model: Hurricane 34E
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Originally Posted by Chance View Post
With dollies that have surge brakes (or electric for that matter), it would seem that maximum stopping power would be limited by weight from toad's front wheels only; hence the maximum toad's braking contribution would be roughly from 50% to 65%. ..
No. Not quite.

The net effect of the toad load to the coach occurs at the hitch ball.

The hitch ball does not know or care how many wheels behind it have braking force or stopping power. Only the dolly knows! The hitch ball certainly does not only give 50% to 66% credit for stopping the toad due to only two wheels with brakes. The dolly applies a 100% braking contribution for the toad's rolling mass using it's two wheels. As far as the hitch ball is concerned, it doesn't know if there is a dolly or 4-down toad connected, as long as it stops properly.

In order for a tow dolly's two wheels to stop the weight of the toad, (regardless of it's size), it has to apply enough braking force. With hydraulic surge brakes, if you load a small vehicle on the dolly, it applies a small braking force, and with a large vehicle it applies sufficiently more, all automatically. Electric brakes require an electronic brake controller which can be preset to anticipate the mass of the toad, based on inertia.

If you have ever made an emergency stop while pulling a properly configured tow dolly, TT, 5er, or boat you know that the stopping distance is just as good as the coach by itself, (if not better, due to the rolling resistance helping to slow down, like an anchor or drag chute).
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Old 08-18-2015, 03:37 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Beacher View Post
No. Not quite.

The net effect of the toad load to the coach occurs at the hitch ball.

The hitch ball does not know or care how many wheels behind it have braking force or stopping power. Only the dolly knows! The hitch ball certainly does not only give 50% to 66% credit for stopping the toad due to only two wheels with brakes. The dolly applies a 100% braking contribution for the toad's rolling mass using it's two wheels. As far as the hitch ball is concerned, it doesn't know if there is a dolly or 4-down toad connected, as long as it stops properly.

In order for a tow dolly's two wheels to stop the weight of the toad, (regardless of it's size), it has to apply enough braking force. With hydraulic surge brakes, if you load a small vehicle on the dolly, it applies a small braking force, and with a large vehicle it applies sufficiently more, all automatically. Electric brakes require an electronic brake controller which can be preset to anticipate the mass of the toad, based on inertia.

If you have ever made an emergency stop while pulling a properly configured tow dolly, TT, 5er, or boat you know that the stopping distance is just as good as the coach by itself, (if not better, due to the rolling resistance helping to slow down, like an anchor or drag chute).
In a panic stop it has to make a difference. And I'm not talking about controls -- I'm simply stating that if brakes have enough power to lock up wheels, then any weight that rolls without being braked will add to stopping distance.

In any panic stop the maximum braking force can not exceed what the tires can grip on road, so it pays to have the entire mass to be stopped providing vertical force towards increasing that grip. That's the main reason to add brakes to a toad in the first place.

In trailers of all types it is "typical" to have 100% of trailer weight contributing towards tires getting a better grip (because all wheels are braked). In a tandem-axle trailer if you only had brakes on one of the two axles, then locking up the two braked wheels would not stop as fast as if all four wheels are braked. The same happens with a dolly. Weight on toad's unbraked axle adds to mass that wants to keep going forward during a panic stop but it doesn't contribute as much to braking. This means that a dolly's ultimate braking (the point at which tires lock up) can't be as good as a trailer's or flat-towed vehicles' (assuming great brakes on all).

When an RVer tows a 3,000-pound car behind a 20,000-pound motorhome, these differences in performance that we are discussing are pretty small. I'm not sure it's even worth debating.
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Old 03-20-2016, 01:56 AM   #25
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State: Connecticut
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Honda CR-V --

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Originally Posted by windsport27k2015 View Post
Hello Everyone,
We can't seem to decide weather to purchase a third vehicle that can be towed with a dolly or all four down or purchase a flat to tow , one of the vehicles we own that can not be dolly or all down. My better half feels that the flat would be difficult in the parks where do you put it? Has anyone any advice?? Open to all suggestions.
Ensure the model is a true flat tow
Go with Blue Ox Tow Bar
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:22 AM   #26
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Model: 2015 Vegas 24.1
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,339
THOR #2601
An owner on this forum with a 2014 Vegas 24.1 sent me the following for setting up a 2016 Kia Soul for flat tow:

1 - Tow Bar – Avanta BlueOx - $850
2 - Drop Hitch – BlueOx - $120
3 - Diode wiring and cable ends - $137
4 - Cable from Motorhome to towed vehicle - $65
5 - Base Plate – BlueOx - $350
6 - Battery maintainer - $55
7 - Shackles (4) for Safety cable - $40
8 - Braking removable type $900 - $1400 (considered but rejected)
9 - Braking permanent type $800 (selected) but install can be as much as $600- $800
10 - Cover for tow bar (if you leave it on the MH you need this) - $50
11 - Four keyed alike locks for hitch - $60
12 - Brake-a-way switch if not included with brake purchase

TOTAL COST (with all dealer installations): $3327
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:46 AM   #27
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My blue Ox was bought used - with tow safety cables and cover - 200
Blue Ox base -Amazon - 350
Ready brake - Amazon -400
Install by local mechanic - 350
Tow lights - 70

I installed a --- tow switch -- to kill accessories while crv is being toad -- to prevent battery drain
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:55 AM   #28
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Model: Chateau 35SF
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I've commented elsewhere in the forum about etrailer.com. They are close to St. Louis. We bought everything we needed to flat tow for $2200 for the parts and because we live close we took it to them for installation. Installation is free.
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:22 PM   #29
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State: Texas
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Met a fellow here in Arizona that towed his Hyundai (which is not designed to tow 4 down) with a Blhe Ox bar & left it running while towing. He said it was cheaper to pay for a little gas than to trade vehicles or add the neccessary pumps to the existing car, said he had towed it like that for the last 5 years without any problems.
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Old 03-20-2016, 06:31 PM   #30
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Just my .02 cents! I don't have this problem as I tow my rv, but if & when we go to a MH it will be whatever vehicle that can be flat towed, witnessed too many folks having to wrestle dollies around or taking half a day loading/ unloading off of trailers, flat tow only for me!
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:05 PM   #31
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Model: Hurricane 32A
State: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Does your Blue Ox Patriot also have a vacuum pump? And since it sounds like your brake system is not connected to coach directly, if it uses a vacuum pump, how is it powered? From toad or coach?
Based on my research before buying something a year+ ago - the Blue Ox Patriot and Roadmaster Brake Buddy both operate a 'dead pedal' - no power assist... You must release any vacuum (pump the brake a couple of times) if the engine ran recently to allow it to properly calibrate.

I chose Roadmaster Invisibrake - an option that uses the toad's power brakes - providing the needed vacuum... powered by the toad - which is being recharged from the MH by the same unit...

Sounds like the Unified Tow Brake also provides the needed vacuum (if the toad needs it - some use a different system now - Hydroboost - which uses an electric pump instead of vacuum.).
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