New Catalytic Converter Law

[richguess]

16 ACE27—you made my point for me. My comment was meant to be sarcastic in response to the “illegal alien” comment. And, is there one of us who hadn’t paid someone in cash at sometime pretty much knowing it wasn’t going to be reported? Or worse, taking a discount for paying cash?

I don’t know the answer to catalytic theft, but a lot of people think they do. Lots of experts out there. The law may work, it may not work. But it’s an effort to solve a problem, and I hope it has its intended effect.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

The places buying them KNOW they're stolen. This is how "chop shops" survive... the whole chain is corrupt.

This is why drugs won "the war on drugs". As long as there's an unchecked demand for them, no amount of playing "catch the thief" will have any effect.

Either eliminate them from cars, or make them so cheap it's not worth the effort.

Or we just keep nibbling away at them one thief at a time. Look at this recent unbelievable get away chase, they were throwing the cat converters and tools out of the window I said earlier, the PENALTY is what may ultimately deter. They (the scum) are not making that much money to risk spending to 3 - 5 years in the pen. You can make more money / day mowing lawns legitimately.

The new law in Indiana makes it easier to prosecute. You have to prove them guilty. That is what this is all about. Law enforcement can't stop people from being a thieves. In this country you have the constitutional right to be a thief and yes even stupid.

In cases of under the hand transactions, you may not stop that, but if you running a sting and they buy more than one in case, you can take that dealer out disrupting the network one dealer at a time. Point is let's do something. Indiana got it right, if Texas don't follow suit soon, as soon as the gas prices come down I may move to Indiana

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7261FvGG0c&t=17s

[Chateau_Nomad]

Why not REQUIRE a VIN on the cat? No VIN... it's an illegal cat. If the VIN is found to be counterfeit (by a simple VIN scan), it's illegal.

Require all recyclers to keep a database of all cats they've received. Could be enforced using RANDOM inspections at recycle centers or wherever the cats are known to be sold for recycle. This has worked with pawn brokers for years... require a paper trail to keep your license.

Use sting operations for suspected shady operators. Then - go beyond a fine for penalty by charging the owner with receiving stolen property.

The key is not to catch all the "point of theft thieves", but instead to make it difficult by creating a REQUIRED BY LAW traceable path. Once the thieves out in the field get word that recyclers aren't accepting cats WITHOUT VIN numbers, their cover is blown, and incentive drops dramatically.

In any given area, ONE thief is likely committing 95% of the theft - Just like a coyote culling hens.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Why not REQUIRE a VIN on the cat?

Why not to require a cat at all and leave that to the consumer and the auto industries???

Florida is still above water and the north pole still have ice so I guess the reason for cats are proven inexistent....

Who wants an instant price reduction on vehicles, less fuel consumption and more power???

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Why not to require a cat at all and leave that to the consumer and the auto industries???

Florida is still above water and the north pole still have ice so I guess the reason for cats are proven inexistent....

Who wants an instant price reduction on vehicles, less fuel consumption and more power???

That's a bit selfish and short-sighted...

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

That's a bit selfish and short-sighted...

No selfish here but the other way around, there is a profound evil when you make energy and power more expensive for no reason.

Direct example is the simple man that in the past was able to afford a 3/4ton truck and create a business using it (plumbers, landscaping, electricians, etc) which now are excluded from the society and forced to depend on others.

For us, people that can afford it, the increased cost of energy and power due to emissions is an annoyance but for those of simple means, it is a disgrace.

I need to explain that when I say "those of Simple means" I'm also thinking on those outside of America.
I was not born here (although I'm now a prideful American) and I have seeing the disgrace that a reduction of 1% in America GDP causes in poor countries.

Therefore I have absolutely NO SIMPATY for lies that cause disgrace.

[Bob Denman]

The reason why 3/4 ton pickup is so expensive; has little to do with the converters.
But that's an argument for another time and place...

[richguess]

In my neighborhood there are new sting operations where a car is left somewhere as bait. No results posted yet. The thieves are probably like a smart trout.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Why not to require a cat at all and leave that to the consumer and the auto industries???

Florida is still above water and the north pole still have ice so I guess the reason for cats are proven inexistent....

Who wants an instant price reduction on vehicles, less fuel consumption and more power???

I prefer to avoid crapping in my nest OR other's nests. It goes back to the principle of leaving the environment cleaner than you found it... including HH parking lots. But... this is another subject. And CCs are not going away anytime soon.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

And CCs are not going away anytime soon.

Why not?
Also,
About crapping in your own nest, may I assume that when you get into your house you stop breathing so you don't release CO2 inside home???

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

Why not?
Also,
About crapping in your own nest, may I assume that when you get into your house you stop breathing so you don't release CO2 inside home???

Twitter mentality...
Not every discussion needs to be a fight.
But if that's what you REALLY want...

[DogLovers]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Then you would guess wrong. Keep your biases and politics to yourself. Lots of people get paid under the table, illegal aliens is only one grouping. And being paid via a transaction "off the books" or "under the table" applies to the topic of selling stolen catalytic converters: it's already happening to avoid current laws on buying/selling stolen property and will continue/increase to get around this new law aimed specifically at converters.

"Keep your biases and politics to yourself", That seemed a rather pointed comment coming form a "Site Team Manager".

Please refrain from being rude to forum members. I would not like to have to report your behavior. Seems like an unproductive exchange.

[Bob Denman]

Be careful...
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/at...1&d=1649434289

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Twitter mentality...
Not every discussion needs to be a fight.
But if that's what you REALLY want...

Hey Bob, I don't want a fight and my question was a rhetoric one to lead to a point where we can question what is the limit for "emission regulations"?
w/o limit, we will quickly reach the conclusion, from the top of our human arrogance, that we need to kill 6 billion people because they produce too much CO2... it seems a very stupid proposition but some are already thinking that way...

As for pollution, many of the arguments used are/where based on the big city mentality.
I once flew from Indianapolis to Frankfurt, Germany and then Paris, France and back to Indianapolis and I saw the polution cloud in Frankfurt and Paris but not in Indianapolis.... why?
Because this emissions pollution they use to justify many things is local and not global.

A single Vucano eruption can produce more CO2 than the entire humanity ever have....

I was born, raised and lived in a big city (more than 10 million people) for 36 years and I can tell you that the problem of pollution in big cities is in fact a problem of urban development and not emissions.

We don't need Euro/EPA regulations where I live now because we don't have that problem and we don't have that problem because there is almost no building in the city with more than 3 floors

Therefore if someone stole your motorhome CC I have one almost new I can sell you.... Just kidding!!!

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by DogLovers

"Keep your biases and politics to yourself", That seemed a rather pointed comment coming form a "Site Team Manager".

Please refrain from being rude to forum members. I would not like to have to report your behavior. Seems like an unproductive exchange.

Report me for what? Reminding someone not to inject politics into a forum whose rules prohibit political discussions? Did you read the whole exchange?

[DogLovers]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Report me for what? Reminding someone not to inject politics into a forum whose rules prohibit political discussions? Did you read the whole exchange?

Really? Just let it go.

Let's talk about why my diesel pusher has no convertor.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by DogLovers

Really? Just let it go.

Let's talk about why my diesel pusher has no convertor.

How about my FRED?
I guess I can crawl under it tomorrow, and take a peek for myself.
(It finally comes home form it's long Winter nap! )

[halfprice]

Originally Posted by richguess

In my neighborhood there are new sting operations where a car is left somewhere as bait. No results posted yet. The thieves are probably like a smart trout.

Rich,
I worked some of those in town. Lots of fun and crooks are opportunist. Never had to sit long before the bait was taken

Jerry

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by halfprice

Rich,
I worked some of those in town. Lots of fun and crooks are opportunist. Never had to sit long before the bait was taken

Jerry

Curious to what actually happens to a caught bad guy….when my converter was stolen I had a pretty interesting conversation with the police officer who took my report. He said they usually see a surge in thefts periodically when a couple of bad guys move through the area. They’ll grab low hanging fruit and then move on to another community. If they are caught they likely will be back on the street almost immediately and then they’ll move on. The officer told me these thefts are not a high priority and it’s unlikely that anything will change, it was pretty discouraging!

[dkoldman]

Wow I didn't see this thread going this direction

So I have tallied the views from the 1st 40 posts before this thread close on what you think, will it work, will other states follow suit?

The new Indiana Law...

"This limits cash payouts for detached catalytic converters at $25 per transaction per day. Lawmakers say this will reduce the incentive for thieves. The law also states only salvage recyclers licensed with the Secretary of State’s office can buy or sell catalytic converters."

8 voted against the law 53%
7 voted for the law 47%

Well maybe Indiana will rescind the law so the thieves can get back to their regular course of doing business without any red tape. Or maybe, if I were a thief I would not conduct catalytic converter theft business in Indiana to show my dismay with such a law that serves no purpose.