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Old 04-09-2022, 04:46 PM   #41
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If you read the so simplistically worded fluff law you'll see that only a licensed business can recycle.
You'll also maybe see that
registered with the secretary of state
Means
Getting a $25 business license with a drop box address.
Then you'll might find that a business does not need to say where the recycled cc came from when bought from another business.
Then you'll deduce that for $25, and far less ID needed than selling an indivudual cc, you're now in the bulk cc, with no records, business.

Like I typed earlier the law legitimizes the sale of cc.
It does this by allowing thieves to sell bulk cc to other recycling centers without any records by getting a business license by using a state issued ID. The state issued ID requires only a self-affidavit that you're who you say you are.

A steak as big as my head is the bet I have saying this is going on right now.
I haven't looked but I bet a simple google search turns up bulk sales by single owner $25 business license owner.

Don't just read what something says, read what it doesn't say.
Those few words in that middle-school quality law description is an ABSOLUTE outline of how to do bulk cc sales.

Ask Jerry if it isn't a scenario.
Ask some defense attorney attorney here to read the silly law twice.

I in no way say it isn't a start.
I'm saying it is in no way a finish.

It's childishly thought through, rushed, and compounds the problem.
Only the stupidest thieves will even begin to be stopped. 1%...10% tops, but only until their smarter buddy gets the $25 license.

If they can't write a non-sieve law...tell the legislators to go back to being a barrista at a knock-off coffee kiosk.

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Old 04-09-2022, 04:54 PM   #42
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THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
If you read the so simplistically worded fluff law you'll see that only a licensed business can recycle.
You'll also maybe see that
registered with the secretary of state
Means
Getting a $25 business license with a drop box address.
Then you'll might find that a business does not need to say whete the recycled cc came from.
Then you'll deduce that for $25, and far less ID needed than selling an indivudual cc.

Like I typed earlier the law legitimizes the sale of cc.
It does this by allowing thieves to sell bulk cc to other recycling centers wothout any records by getting a business license by using a state issued ID. The sta5e 8ssu3d ID requites only a self-affidaccit that you're who you say you are.

A steak as big as my head is the bet I have saying this is going on right now.
I haven't looked but I bet a simple google search turns up bulk sales by single owner $25 business license owner.

Damn.
Don't just read what something says, read what it doesn't say.
Those few words in that middle-school quality law description is an ABSOLUTE outline of how to do bulk cc sales.

Ask Jerry if it isn't a scenario.
Ask some defense attorney attorney here to read the silly law twice.
I am pretty sure I included you with the No vote?

One could argue, you actually had the tiebreaker. In this country democracy prevails; so the Thor RV Forum voters have spoken and say rescind the damn law, and let's get back to status quo. That is unless someone request a recount of my tally
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Old 04-09-2022, 05:13 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
I am pretty sure I included you with the No vote?

One could argue, you actually had the tiebreaker. In this country democracy prevails; so the Thor RV Forum voters have spoken and say rescind the damn law, and let's get back to status quo. That is unless someone request a recount of my tally
I don't want it rescinded. I want it revised to include adult thoughts and real world scenario.

My success has been based on any plan, any rule, is analyzed in a specifc way:

Before anything is outlined more than on a cocktail knapkin
'We executed to the supposed end and have failed. Let's work backwards to the start and see how we failed, and then let's not fail.'

That law:
'People are still having cc stolen. '
How?
Don't know.
So we have records?
No, recyclers are selling to recyclers and the initial buyer is a ghost and we can't locate them.
How?
A business can sell to a business.
Ok, close that loophole.

Now, again:
We're at the end and have failed.
How?


And you do that over and over until you don't fail.
Or you fail.
Like that legislation fails.
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Old 04-09-2022, 05:27 PM   #44
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For those not old enough to remember why we have catalytic converters on our vehicles, here is a brief history. Prior to 1975 cars did not have a CC. They also burned leaded fuel which caused its own set of health issues.

The original CC was a two-way system that combined carbon monoxide with unburnt hydrocarbons to produce carbon dioxide and water. By 1981 the CC became a 3-way system as it was determined that oxides of nitrogen (NOx) are a large contributor to smog and acid rain. So, the CC was revised to cut down NOx emissions from the tailpipe. For those living in rural areas that don't see it, smog is that haze that formed over cities with heavy industry and large amounts of vehicular traffic. Smog is also a huge contributor to health issues including lung cancer & COPD. Oh, and acid rain, that wonderful by product, was killing off forests and lakes around the country hundreds of miles from the metropolitan areas producing the bulk of the smog.

Growing up in the 60's in a heavily industrialized and populated area of the country we saw firsthand the effects of the gray haze drifting over our county from the traffic and industry along the southern shores of Lake Michigan. After the Clean Air Act of 1970 heavy industry, and the automobile industry were required to meet emission standards to improve our air quality. By the early 70's the auto industry determined in order to meet the tailpipe emission standards cars would need a CC to make that happen. Thus by 1975 they became standard equipment on passenger cars.

In NW Indiana we have seen dramatic improvements in air quality thanks to those requirements on cars, and industry.
Do we really want to go back to the wild west of no regulations? Get rid of emission requirements on automobiles and industry?
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Old 04-09-2022, 05:44 PM   #45
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THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
I don't want it rescinded. I want it revised to include adult thoughts and real world scenario.
Ok, I don't want this to go down as some kind of voter fraud on my part. I even counted the posts that I have flagged as ignore But nonetheless; the questions I was tracking were?

1. On what you think?
Your answer / input provided
2. Will it work?
Your answer is No, but you suggest if it is redone it will or may? Does not seem like you vote Yes it will work?
3. Will other states follow suit?
No one answered this question, but the law as written in Indiana is not a majority favored law per this Thor RV Forum; so I assume it would not be so in other states... the State of California notwithstanding.
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Old 04-09-2022, 06:03 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJC62 View Post
For those not old enough to remember why we have catalytic converters on our vehicles, here is a brief history. Prior to 1975 cars did not have a CC. They also burned leaded fuel which caused its own set of health issues.

The original CC was a two-way system that combined carbon monoxide with unburnt hydrocarbons to produce carbon dioxide and water. By 1981 the CC became a 3-way system as it was determined that oxides of nitrogen (NOx) are a large contributor to smog and acid rain. So, the CC was revised to cut down NOx emissions from the tailpipe. For those living in rural areas that don't see it, smog is that haze that formed over cities with heavy industry and large amounts of vehicular traffic. Smog is also a huge contributor to health issues including lung cancer & COPD. Oh, and acid rain, that wonderful by product, was killing off forests and lakes around the country hundreds of miles from the metropolitan areas producing the bulk of the smog.

Growing up in the 60's in a heavily industrialized and populated area of the country we saw firsthand the effects of the gray haze drifting over our county from the traffic and industry along the southern shores of Lake Michigan. After the Clean Air Act of 1970 heavy industry, and the automobile industry were required to meet emission standards to improve our air quality. By the early 70's the auto industry determined in order to meet the tailpipe emission standards cars would need a CC to make that happen. Thus by 1975 they became standard equipment on passenger cars.

In NW Indiana we have seen dramatic improvements thanks to those requirements on cars, and industry.
Do we really want to back to the wild west of no regulations? Get rid of emission requirements on automobiles and industry?
I'll be the first to say "ABSOLUTELY NO!"
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Old 04-09-2022, 06:04 PM   #47
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THOR #13932
By following suit:
That law directly as written?
No.

This Indiana
'Baby bouncing a ball in her crib'
law
will need to be followed by an
'nba game'
law
Written by any following, even Indiana's, state legislature.
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Old 04-10-2022, 12:10 PM   #48
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THOR #20900
Let's even it up. Add me to the "yes" list.
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Old 04-10-2022, 01:09 PM   #49
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THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by atreis View Post
Let's even it up. Add me to the "yes" list.
Duly acknowledged sir... Cat thieves in Indiana are pissing in their boots. We will keep the polls opened up as long as necessary until we win

So I have tallied the views from the 1st 48 posts.
Will it work? Yes or No
The new Indiana Law...

"This limits cash payouts for detached catalytic converters at $25 per transaction per day. Lawmakers say this will reduce the incentive for thieves. The law also states only salvage recyclers licensed with the Secretary of State’s office can buy or sell catalytic converters."

8 voted against the law 50%
8 voted for the law 50%


Tiebreaker = Actual result from State of Indiana voted in favor of new law; therefore by consent decree the new law is appealing to most on Thor RV Forum.
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Old 04-10-2022, 01:25 PM   #50
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THOR #13932
Since we're at a the about useless words that only outline how to usurp them,

Let's address another issue in this thread.


For fun,

Look up
1,000,000 horses vs 1,000,000 cars.
See the real, tangible stuff. Not spew from either side. If you don't like the numbers, go ahead and adjust a bit, they aren't gospel.


Now figure in gasahol for generators and we're home free.

Erase ice personal vehicles entirely.

You start to analyze from the point you expect to finish, and work backwards. This is done so the phrase;
'Fools rush in'
Can't be applied.
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Old 04-10-2022, 03:56 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
[COLOR="Red"][B][B]8 voted against the law 50%
8 voted for the law
No it will not.
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Old 04-10-2022, 07:00 PM   #52
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THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by RACarvalho View Post
No it will not.
Your vote had been previously tallied, based on your response in post #6 of this thread. However your current post does validate the no vote.

Tally remains

8 voted against the law 50%
8 voted for the law 50%

Tiebreaker = Actual result from State of Indiana voted in favor of new law; therefore by consent decree the new law is appealing to most on Thor RV Forum.
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Old 04-10-2022, 07:04 PM   #53
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THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Since we're at a the about useless words that only outline how to usurp them,

Let's address another issue in this thread.


For fun,

Look up
1,000,000 horses vs 1,000,000 cars.
See the real, tangible stuff. Not spew from either side. If you don't like the numbers, go ahead and adjust a bit, they aren't gospel.


Now figure in gasahol for generators and we're home free.

Erase ice personal vehicles entirely.

You start to analyze from the point you expect to finish, and work backwards. This is done so the phrase;
'Fools rush in'
Can't be applied.
Duck, you are truly one of a kind. You get my vote for the most interesting man in the world.

One day when I get older, I am gonna ask the relevance of the tire wheel in your avatar? Right now, I don't think I can handle the truth
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Old 04-11-2022, 12:29 AM   #54
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Two reasons for the wheel:

It's a picture of my 4x4 front hub lock, the only outward difference between my 24.1 and 10,000 others.(the 4" lift isn't really 'seen'. It's sensed.)

And


It's governmental-quality Proof that I am not, mmmaaaayybeeeee, involved in the
Missing cat
Mystery.

(One of my all time favorite bumper stickers is:
'Lost your cat? Check my tires'.)
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Old 04-11-2022, 01:26 AM   #55
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THOR #16721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
Duly acknowledged sir... Cat thieves in Indiana are pissing in their boots. We will keep the polls opened up as long as necessary until we win

So I have tallied the views from the 1st 48 posts.
Will it work? Yes or No
The new Indiana Law...

"This limits cash payouts for detached catalytic converters at $25 per transaction per day. Lawmakers say this will reduce the incentive for thieves. The law also states only salvage recyclers licensed with the Secretary of State’s office can buy or sell catalytic converters."

8 voted against the law 50%
8 voted for the law 50%


Tiebreaker = Actual result from State of Indiana voted in favor of new law; therefore by consent decree the new law is appealing to most on Thor RV Forum.
My opinion was a "NO" for rescinding EPA air quality regulations. As far as the CAT legislation... I have not read it, so therefore have no opinion.

Sometimes I think new legislation is put forward as an appeasement to voters, and sometimes INTENTIONALLY lacks teeth for unscrupulous reasons. Especially if there are already statutes on the books which could be applied... but authorities lack the courage. I like Duck's method of "following the stink to it's source". The worker bees will never stop until you get the queen.
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Old 04-11-2022, 01:58 AM   #56
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THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
My opinion was a "NO" for rescinding EPA air quality regulations. As far as the CAT legislation... I have not read it, so therefore have no opinion.

Sometimes I think new legislation is put forward as an appeasement to voters, and sometimes INTENTIONALLY lacks teeth for unscrupulous reasons. Especially if there are already statutes on the books which could be applied... but authorities lack the courage. I like Duck's method of "following the stink to it's source". The worker bees will never stop until you get the queen.
So my assumed No Vote for you was actually a No Vote from you

Wow... this worse than trying to count dangling chads in Florida.

So I have tallied the views from the 1st 55 posts.
Will it work? Yes or No

The new Indiana Law...

"This limits cash payouts for detached catalytic converters at $25 per transaction per day. Lawmakers say this will reduce the incentive for thieves. The law also states only salvage recyclers licensed with the Secretary of State’s office can buy or sell catalytic converters."

8 voted for the law 53%
7 voted against the law 47%


Tiebreaker = Actual result from State of Indiana voted in favor of new law; therefore by consent decree the new law is appealing to most on Thor RV Forum.

I think the new law is specifically intended to make it easier to prosecute laws that already exist on the books? No dealer can cash purchase more than one Cat a day and at $25. That is a very easy sting to setup.

Regardless, there are now more Thor RV Forum members supporting the law. I hope to see something from the state to show if any impact is noted.
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Old 04-13-2022, 01:52 PM   #57
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THOR #6280
Convertor problem solved

Yesterday in Sacramento, California a man was killed when he was run over by the car he was under while attempting to steal the catalytic converter.

Poetic Justice?
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Old 04-13-2022, 02:17 PM   #58
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THOR #19887
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogLovers View Post
Poetic Justice?
When the justice system start refusing executing justice, death penalty tends to become the preferred method of justice.

That is why Hammurabi's code is way better than no code at all(or no enforcement of laws).
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:51 AM   #59
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THOR #13058
Follow up

Here is a follow up of new law and enforcement Indiana.



The new law referenced above makes it easier to prosecute the business owners who use to be able to perpetuate the theft market in Indiana.

These 5 will all get Felony convictions. They were processing 1,500 cat converters / day!!!! I would take this a step further by allowing the thieves to potentially class action sue the Business owners for Deceptive Business Practices by that were illegal.

Lets see how fast these tactics and new laws move to other states.
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:09 AM   #60
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THOR #16721
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
Here is a follow up of new law and enforcement Indiana.



The new law referenced above makes it easier to prosecute the business owners who use to be able to perpetuate the theft market in Indiana.

These 5 will all get Felony convictions. They were processing 1,500 cat converters / day!!!! I would take this a step further by allowing the thieves to potentially class action sue the Business owners for Deceptive Business Practices by that were illegal.

Lets see how fast these tactics and new laws move to other states.
It's been repeated
a million times.

Remove the incentive
and the "problem" disappears.

I'm usually against new federal laws, but by making the penalty universal (like mail theft) you avoid the small town corruption involving payola to local politicians.
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