Rv Park 50amp service to 30amp service.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by dstankov

The OP is going to plug a 30 amp coach into the campgrounds 50 amp pedestal and wants to use the pedestal's 20 amp circuit to power small appliances for use with the outdoor kitchen. The current concerns are the rating of the extension cords that should be used and how to use the appliances without constantly tripping the pedestal breaker. With my prior 30 amp class C I did this on a couple of occasions at campgrounds providing 50 amp service only with an included 20 amp outlet on the pedestal. With the current 50 amp coach, I still use an extension cord off the 20 amp service at the pedestal for running the toaster etc... in the morning and the canopy LED lights at night.

I wasn't responding to the OP. I'm sorry I didn't quote "Cindysteve" but thought it was obvious I was addressing that question. I apologize for the confusion.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Chance

I wasn't responding to the OP. I'm sorry I didn't quote "Cindysteve" but thought it was obvious I was addressing that question. I apologize for the confusion.

You are correct. My comment should have stated "Cindysteve" and not the OP because that is to whom it was directed.

Now, if I understand you post correctly you are saying if 30 and 50 amp are available at the pedestal and the coach runs 30 amp to plug the coach into 30 amp and then adapt down the 50 amp to run appliances or other electrical items outside. Is this correct?

[Chance]

Originally Posted by dstankov

You are correct. My comment should have stated "Cindysteve" and not the OP because that is to whom it was directed.

Now, if I understand you post correctly you are saying if 30 and 50 amp are available at the pedestal and the coach runs 30 amp to plug the coach into 30 amp and then adapt down the 50 amp to run appliances or other electrical items outside. Is this correct?

Dave, more or less since there are a million ways to do this. I was actually thinking that if the site has 50-Amp service, which is really 2X50-Amp in different legs (phases), then one could split a 50-Amp into two using a "Y" adapter. From that one could run the motorhome on one leg and outside remote kitchen off the other 30-Amp leg.

If a person also purchased a 50-Amp cable to run from the pedestal to the motorhome area before the split, it may help with campgrounds that don't want multiple connections at one site since one would only be using the 50-Amp plug. Or one could buy a second 30-Amp cable and install "Y" adapter at pedestal, using one for MH and other for outdoor loads.

If I were "personally" looking to use as much power as I could get from a single 50-Amp hookup, I would probably take it a step further and essentially build a small power distribution center that would run the motorhome off a 30-Amp breaker, plus another 20-Amp breaker off one leg, and then add 2 or 3 more 20-Amp breakers off the other leg. Each breaker could then power a separate cooking device up to 20-Amps. For people looking to use lots of power outdoors, it's almost like upgrading from 30- to 50-Amp service. Granted not the same but close enough if peak loads come from outdoor electric cooking.

ParkPower Y Adapter 50x30x30 - $83.99

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by Chance

Dave, more or less since there are a million ways to do this. I was actually thinking that if the site has 50-Amp service, which is really 2X50-Amp in different legs (phases), then one could split a 50-Amp into two using a "Y" adapter. From that one could run the motorhome on one leg and outside remote kitchen off the other 30-Amp leg.

If a person also purchased a 50-Amp cable to run from the pedestal to the motorhome area before the split, it may help with campgrounds that don't want multiple connections at one site since one would only be using the 50-Amp plug. Or one could buy a second 30-Amp cable and install "Y" adapter at pedestal, using one for MH and other for outdoor loads.

If I were "personally" looking to use as much power as I could get from a single 50-Amp hookup, I would probably take it a step further and essentially build a small power distribution center that would run the motorhome off a 30-Amp breaker, plus another 20-Amp breaker off one leg, and then add 2 or 3 more 20-Amp breakers off the other leg. Each breaker could then power a separate cooking device up to 20-Amps. For people looking to use lots of power outdoors, it's almost like upgrading from 30- to 50-Amp service. Granted not the same but close enough if peak loads come from outdoor electric cooking.

ParkPower Y Adapter 50x30x30 - $83.99

I have not yet been to a site that did not have a 20 amp receptacle and breaker along with the 50 amp hookup.

Although it sounds good in concept the problem I have is if you are running exterior loads off a leg of the 50 amp circuit the extension cords used, in my mind, would then become the fuse and the potential for fire during an overload could occur. I would rather run an extension cord off the 20 amp circuit and its breaker than take a chance on a fire or frying my equipment.

Also, I have not yet been to a park that has a one cord policy so running an extension cord off the 20 amp circuit has not been an issue.

[bevedfelker]

Seems like a lot of this thread makes the 30-Amp service look like the Rodney Dangerfield of electric service -- it just can't get any respect.

Last summer we were camped at Ford Wilderness. We were connected to the 30 Amp service as we usually are. One morning when we got up it was about 95 degrees with 90% humidity. When my wife was making breakfast, here's the electrical we were using:

Coach lights on in bedroom and living area
TV on in living room
Wireless phone charging in USB port
Electric fry pan cooking eggs
Microwave bacon in microwave
Coffee maker making the coffee
Refrigerator set on electric
Water heater set on electric
A/C running

We never popped any circuit breakers.

[Chance]

Ed, as I recall 30-Amp service dates back to a period before RVers used so much electricity, so it would not surprise me if it slowly gets replaced by 50-Amp as the new standard.

By the way, if I had to guess, I'd bet all the loads on your list were not pulling power at same time; at least not for long. In my old Class C I could just run the AC and microwave off the generator which could produce 30 Amps or more. Granted newer equipment is more efficient, but your list appears to easily exceed 30 Amps if all were on at once.

[bevedfelker]

Chance you are right -- but the lights, tv, microwave, fry pan, coffee maker and A/C were all on at the same time and pulling power. The water heater and refrig -- probably not.

[gmc]

I had a 30amp unit for 4 years... never had an issue...
And the less expensive and bulky power cords are nice.
Mine had 2 AC units - I could select which one to run on shore power - if I wanted both - needed the generator to supplement.

The 50amp (100) is nice... but I've also run this unit on 30amp service with no issues.

Only time I've tripped a breaker has been with 2 appliances on the same 15amp branch. Note to self: turn off the space heater before turning on the coffee maker...

Looking at what Ed and Bev were running and some approximations:
Coach lights on in bedroom and living area - 12 volt system
TV on in living room - minimal draw
Wireless phone charging in USB port - draws even less (even a 1 amp charger' is 1 amp OUTPUT at 3.7 volts... much lower INPUT at 12v.)
Electric fry pan cooking eggs - 800 watts - 7 amps
Microwave bacon in microwave - 800 watts - 7amps
Coffee maker making the coffee - 800 watts - 7 amps
Refrigerator set on electric - likely not running
Water heater set on electric - likely not running
A/C running - 1500 watts - 13amps

I'd say you were right on the edge... not knowing the real ratings of your appliances or the settings they were on...
If the AC tried to START in that timeframe - you would have tripped the 30amp... (start requires at least 50% more power than run...)

If you have a SurgeGuard or similar with display - it will tell you what you are drawing at any point. (in total for 30amp - and by leg for 50amp.

[EA37TS]

I do not believe anyone was trying to give 30 AMP a bad rap but rather trying to help someone determine a setup that may work for them and their coach. My prior Class C was 30 amp and like gmc the only time I had a problem was when I turned on the space heater in the morning and then turned on the coffee pot. We also had the problem with the space heater and the microwave.

And to be perfectly honest, I tripped a breaker in the Challenger running 50 amp the same way. I had the space heater on and then turned on the coffee pot. We corrected the situation here by moving the space heater five feet and plugging into an outlet on a different circuit. I couldn't do that on my class C.

Back to the issue of using the pedestal 20 amp for the outdoor kitchen, when I started doing this with the Class C it was because Forest River did not install any exterior sidewall outlets on that coach. I had one outlet in the exterior kitchen tied to one 15 amp breaker. I also had very limited counter space around the sink so multiple appliances in that location was a non starter. Although the situation and setup are different with the Challenger, old habits are hard to break and using the 20 amp off the pedestal still works well. Besides a cord running on the ground and covered by a patio mat looks a lot better than one hanging off the side of the coach and DW likes it when the exterior setup looks "inviting".

Note to self, determine if the exterior and outdoor kitchen outlets are on the same or separate circuits. Might be nice to know in the future.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by dstankov

Also, I have not yet been to a park that has a one cord policy so running an extension cord off the 20 amp circuit has not been an issue.

Where I've run into this policy, it was instituted because owners of 50 amp rigs wouldn't pay the extra charge for 50 amp service and used "cheater boxes" to plug into the 30 amp AND 20 amp service to power their RVs. Although this wouldn't give them the theoretical 100 amps (50 amps per leg x 2 hot legs) available from correctly wired 50 amp service, it would give them a theoretical 50 amps (30 amps on L1 + 20 amps on L2) - more than available from simply adapting down and plugging into the 30 amp plug. This practice doesn't work with newer GFCI-protected 20 amp outlets in the pedestal since the 50 amp rigs have a common neutral, and the neutral leg current on the 20 amp outlet doesn't match the hot leg current - therefore, the GFCI will trip when a cheater box is used.

Some campgrounds responded with the one outlet policy. Others simply forbid the "cheater boxes".





Rusty

[JamieGeek]

We have a small table that we setup outside right next to the camper; next to the plugs on the side of the camper. We'll frequently run a coffee pot and a skillet from those plugs.
I can't be 100% sure that we've run everything specified in the list, but we've come close (including making toast inside the camper when the skillet is running on the outside). I can't recall ever tripping a breaker in those circumstances.
Our typical setup:

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

Where I've run into this policy, it was instituted because owners of 50 amp rigs wouldn't pay the extra charge for 50 amp service and used "cheater boxes" to plug into the 30 amp AND 20 amp service to power their RVs. Although this wouldn't give them the theoretical 100 amps (50 amps per leg x 2 hot legs) available from correctly wired 50 amp service, it would give them a theoretical 50 amps (30 amps on L1 + 20 amps on L2) - more than available from simply adapting down and plugging into the 30 amp plug. This practice doesn't work with newer GFCI-protected 20 amp outlets in the pedestal since the 50 amp rigs have a common neutral, and the neutral leg current on the 20 amp outlet doesn't match the hot leg current - therefore, the GFCI will trip when a cheater box is used.

Some campgrounds responded with the one outlet policy. Others simply forbid the "cheater boxes".





Rusty

Although I have not come across that I can see where it would come into play especially if the site had an upcharge for 50 amp and the Rv'er was too cheap to pay it and/or a 50 amp site was available. It that case the site owner should ask the Rv'er to depart the area and never return.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

We have a small table that we setup outside right next to the camper; next to the plugs on the side of the camper. We'll frequently run a coffee pot and a skillet from those plugs.
I can't be 100% sure that we've run everything specified in the list, but we've come close (including making toast inside the camper when the skillet is running on the outside). I can't recall ever tripping a breaker in those circumstances.
Our typical setup:

Nice. Where do you store the table? Does it fold in half, or is it not that deep (hard to tell from picture)? Lack of bigger Mega Storage under beds of 24.1 has been a concern of mine since we first looked at them.



Anyway, back on topic. We tripped a breaker only once that I recall -- and it only took 3 items. The air conditioner was running (typically around 13 Amps) and I turned on the microwave (also around 13 Amps). My wife who was in bathroom and didn't know I had microwave on turned on a 1500 watt hair dryer, which tripped the main in short order. These three items alone probably pulled close to 39 Amps combined.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Nice. Where do you store the table? Does it fold in half, or is it not that deep (hard to tell from picture)? Lack of bigger Mega Storage under beds of 24.1 has been a concern of mine since we first looked at them.

The table is a standard 2' x 4' table; it doesn't fold in half and is small enough to fit in the "mega storage"/passthrough in the back. I can get to the table from either side (if I empty all the other stuff that is pile in front of it on one side).

[bevedfelker]

Chance -- we have a Lifetime 2' X 4' folding table from Walmart. We use it just like Jamie's picture - set it up where the exterior plug is. Folds in half to a 2' X 2' size. We store it in the rear pass through compartment.
Lifetime 4' Fold-In-Half Adjustable Table, White Granite - Walmart.com

[Chance]

Thanks Jamie and Ed for feedback. I guess the storage areas are deceptively larger than they appear. Wasn't trying to change subject too much but the table's size caught my eye.

It'd be nice if Thor would include the same Mega Storage under the Axis 24.1 bedroom that they use on the large Class C motorhome they build for Cruise America (we've rented those before). With that setup you get about 100 cubic feet in one large compartment, plus built-in large table and a place to carry the spare tire. When I rented one for 3 weeks for a long trip with family, that storage space made all the difference. The table was great too; although badly stained from previous use.

[Cindysteve]

OK, now somebody please verify that I have this right.

-Because of voltage drop and resistance, my best bet is 25 ft (not longer) extension cord that is 10 gauge. I must pair each cord with a surge protector. (and 25 ft is plenty long to reach a table next to the coach anyways)

-Running two cords from each 20 amp receptacle will help split the load, and would net a bit more power (providing it does not violate any park outlet usage policy).

-Alternately, I can use a step down dogbone splitter going 50 amp to 15 amp and net even greater power. (when there is both 50 amp and 30 amp receptacles and it does not violate any maximum outlet policies.)

-If I am going to use the induction plate on high, worst case is I have to plug the toaster into the coach receptacle. (unless I use the 50 amp with a splitter where I will have plenty of power.)

Please verify that I now indeed have this figured out, or correct me if needed. Thanks!

[Pappydude]

DARN, to bad you don't live in Oregon - I have one of each for sale. I got bought both for my 5th wheel and got rid of it. Now I don't need them for my Thor ACE 29.4........

[KNK]

I'm a new owner of a RV. We will be visiting family over Thanksgiving. I purchased a "dog bone" to go from the RV (30 amp) to residential service. Having an extension cord appropriate for this use, what other concerns should I have while getting electric from a residence?

[TurnerFam]

to SUM all of this up...

the more you travel, camp, and boondock, the more you realize you need an adapter for every sort of different and varied situation, though you seem to never have the right one at the moment : /

we've traveled a LOT, and every park and campground is slightly different, sometimes VERY different, but all never exactly the same. All the adapters and extension cords we have hardly every get used, but they are there for the times when you least expect you might need them.

-we've plugged into a church's outside 15a outlet when parked overnight, adapted from 50a to 30a when at a older campground, and adapted down to a 15a plug running a 100' extension cord to an outlet in a campground bathroom

-we've even adapted TWO 30a rv site outlets to our 50a coach, and included another extension cord to an additional 15a outlet, for '75 amp' service

it never ends... but it's nice when you're prepared, even when you're not : )