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Old 07-06-2015, 08:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Beacher View Post
Not if the engine is burning gasoline, diesel, propane, or compressed natural gas. The combustion and exhaust process will still produce and allow toxic substances to vent to the atmosphere on all of the current state of the are emissions systems.

With current technology, the quote only applies if it's a fuel-cell electric vehicle with very good air filters. In that case the polluted intake air is filtered and exhausted with water vapor. So, the dirty air that came into the fuel cell, is filtered on it's way out, and is cleaner. The air was never burned or combusted, but simply contributed to a chemical reaction.
The quote I initially referred to applied to an internal-combustion-engined auto, not a fuel cell. It was a long time ago and made reference to the modern car they were testing (think it was a Honda but not certain) had cleaner exhaust than what was found in Los Angeles and particularly Mexico City. I remember laughing about their claim that you could help clean the air by driving more.

Whether they were right is another issue, but what I read definitely applied to an ICE.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:46 PM   #22
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I remember now where I first heard it... from Click and Clack.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:01 PM   #23
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The water heater, furnace, and refrigerator are all specifically designed to operate safely and combust propane fuel without concern. They are all shielded and vented to the outside to vent CO away from the living quarters.

...
The exhaust on my coach is, in my opinion, nowhere near as safe as that of the generator. When I pull the cover off my furnace about 3 to 4 inches of unsealed and unclamped exhaust pipe comes out with the cover. The exhaust tip for the furnace is approx. 1 inch from the side wall of the coach. This is by the design specs of Attwood.

My generator on the other hand has a gasket at the exhaust manifold and all pipe connections are secured with clamps. The tip of the exhaust comes out from the coach at least 3 inches.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:08 PM   #24
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This is not the article I read originally which was for a gasoline-powered auto, but it shows great advances have been made. It mentions cleaner tailpipe than ambient air (this one on natural gas).

The Cleanest Cars on Earth?: Honda Civic GX and Other Natural Gas Vehicles (NGVs) - Gas 2


After this period more advances have been made. From Honda:

"The gasoline-powered Honda Civic is an Ultra-Low-Emission Vehicle. In 2000, an Accord became the first gasoline-powered car sold in California to meet the Super-Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle standard. Two years later, Honda introduced a new generation of gasoline engines around the world, with extremely low emission levels and increased fuel efficiency that also helped improve driving performance."
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:52 PM   #25
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Ironically: I've heard that about the V-10 (specifically that its exhaust is cleaner than the intake air).
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:41 PM   #26
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Ironically: I've heard that about the V-10 (specifically that its exhaust is cleaner than the intake air).
With its catalytic convertor it is likely cleaner than the generator, unless you count CO2.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:43 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Chance
With its catalytic convertor it is likely cleaner than the generator, unless you count CO2.
Well obviously you can't count CO2 ! LOL 10 Cylinders burning pumps out a lot of CO2.
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Old 07-09-2015, 07:43 PM   #28
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Over here in the UK it is hardly ever warm enough to run the air-con so the problem never arises.
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Old 07-12-2015, 12:50 PM   #29
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Obviously,any manufacturer is going to put that liability disclaimer in there. However,I will add it is not totally invalid. If I am parking to run the gen,I park where the air/wind will carry the exhaust away. Also,if it is not blistering hot,I run it long enough at night to blast the A/C,cool the unit down,and then shut down.Usually works.Especially at night when the sun is not heating up the coach. Also,I have made a small extention for the gen exhaust to carry it further away.Of course,I only use it when parked. Be careful with this.You dont want to force the gen. to push the exhaust too far out the pipe,or you will run into new problems. A foot to 18" seems to suffice. (as with thor,this is a liability statement. I claim no responsibility if you extend your gen. exhaust,and something goes wrong!)
Having said all that,I have used the gen all night while asleep,and no issues.
Happy Trails
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Old 07-12-2015, 06:01 PM   #30
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Well obviously you can't count CO2 ! LOL 10 Cylinders burning pumps out a lot of CO2.
I've seen guys report that their V10 idles with as little as .8 GPH, so it's not that much more than a larger generator may burn. In large part this happens because the V10 idles much slower than the 3600 RPM that some generators operate at.

So even if an idling V10 used twice as much fuel as a generator and therefore produced more carbon dioxide, it may very well produce less carbon monoxide. It's hard to say.

For this reason I've idled my V10 to cool the van a few times. I figure it can't be that different than a generator as far as safety goes.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:54 PM   #31
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Exhaust Extender

I see where CW sells a gen exhaust extension kit that vents at the roof level. Using that might elevate concerns.
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:27 AM   #32
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Get the extension for the exhaust that runs up the side and run the gen. I bought a second detector but I would never have bought the RV if I thought I couldn't run the gen for the A/C. It gets hot in Arizona.
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:41 AM   #33
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I say listen to Thor. Suffer the heat not the consequences.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:40 PM   #34
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Last week I got to ride in an electric car with battery-powered air conditioning and now can't wait till it becomes more affordable so it can be used in RVs. It was very quiet and cooled just like any other auto AC.

If not for higher cost it would be ideal for running AC at night off the grid (assuming you can recharge during day with solar, engine, etc.).
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:44 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Chance
Last week I got to ride in an electric car with battery-powered air conditioning and now can't wait till it becomes more affordable so it can be used in RVs. It was very quiet and cooled just like any other auto AC.
Which car did you ride in? A Leaf, Tesla, or Volt? (The top 3 selling EVs).

Been loving my EV.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:57 PM   #36
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Which car did you ride in? A Leaf, Tesla, or Volt? (The top 3 selling EVs).

Been loving my EV.
Tesla S with 85 kilowatt-hours of battery capacity. With just a tenth that much battery I could easily run my van's AC all night. Would beat a generator for me any day.

By the way, with five adults that Tesla accelerated much faster than any car I've ever owned. It makes over 300 HP. Just mentioning this to show that even a tenth that much battery capacity could power many RV devices at once (granted for shorter time). Also, the car had already been driven about 136 miles before i rode in it. I was impressed except for cost.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Chance
Tesla S with 85 kilowatt-hours of battery capacity. With just a tenth that much battery I could easily run my van's AC all night. Would beat a generator for me any day.

By the way, with five adults that Tesla accelerated much faster than any car I've ever owned. It makes over 300 HP. Just mentioning this to show that even a tenth that much battery capacity could power many RV devices at once (granted for shorter time). Also, the car had already been driven about 136 miles before i rode in it. I was impressed except for cost.
Yeah I've ridden in an S85--very impressive. The P85D must be a truly scary ride!

I've wondered what it would take to have a fully EV RV. There would be plenty of room for batteries under the coach but I'd guess range and recharge time would be the real issues there: All that battery would take a lot more than the 50A supply at the campground can supply (I can fully charge my Focus on the 50A supply at a campground in about 3.5 hours).
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:06 PM   #38
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I've seen guys report that their V10 idles with as little as .8 GPH, so it's not that much more than a larger generator may burn. In large part this happens because the V10 idles much slower than the 3600 RPM that some generators operate at.

So even if an idling V10 used twice as much fuel as a generator and therefore produced more carbon dioxide, it may very well produce less carbon monoxide. It's hard to say.

For this reason I've idled my V10 to cool the van a few times. I figure it can't be that different than a generator as far as safety goes.
We do that sometimes.... idle the V-10 to cool the coach..... rather than the generator since it's quieter. I sure do wish there was a better muffler available for the onan!
Very interesting about that 0.8GPH number..... I have wondered what that burn rate would be. Wonder if that's a good number???
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:00 PM   #39
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We do that sometimes.... idle the V-10 to cool the coach..... rather than the generator since it's quieter. I sure do wish there was a better muffler available for the onan!
Very interesting about that 0.8GPH number..... I have wondered what that burn rate would be. Wonder if that's a good number???
There are a couple problems/issues with running the engine at idle rather than running the generator.

First, at idle the engine does not adequately burn the fuel thereby causing the build up of carbon and other deposits in the valve train and leading to higher valve train related failure rates.

Second, at idle the engine may not reach the operating temperature over time to adequately had vapors generated in the oil pan and lubricating system. This may result in reduced oil life and increased emission control problems with crankcase ventilation components and oxygen sensors.

The Ford manual states that with excessive idling the engine oil and filter must be replaced every 5000 miles rather than the at 7500 mile intervals under normal operating conditions. Also, according to the service schedule the spark plugs, under excessive idling, must be replaced every 60,000 miles rather than every 97,500 miles.

The Ford engine is meant to power the vehicle down the road, not cool the coach when you are sitting in a campground. The generator on the other hand is meant to provide AC power to the coach when shore power is not available.

Although it is not important to me (I rarely boondock), one might look into what makes a "Quiet Generator" quiet and see if those principles can be applied to the Onan line.
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:26 PM   #40
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good points dave
and definitely something to consider in our decision making processes!!

in my case though, we're only talking about idling 20 minutes or so while one of us zips into a store, for example..... and it's once in a while
while i'm sure even that is not ideal (hard to know what Ford defines as "Excessive") it's not like I'm idling for hours on end or doing it regularly.
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