|
|
09-01-2021, 08:11 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Miramar 35.3
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 210
THOR #20808
|
THOR buys Airxcel
__________________
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 08:15 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
There are so many issues with that purchase that I wonder how it will turn out.
__________________
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 08:21 PM
|
#3
|
Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,726
THOR #1469
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
There are so many issues with that purchase that I wonder how it will turn out.
|
Issues such as?
__________________
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 08:42 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS
Issues such as?
|
The first that came to mind were conflicts of interests in corporate profitability when Airxcel products are used by other RV brands. For example, will Winnebago or Coachmen want to buy Airxcel products knowing it will help their competitor’s bottom line? I don’t know, unless Thor plans to use all/most of Airxcel’s capacity.
What about supply chain when there are shortages? Wouldn’t Thor come first at others’ expense. Just seems like it could get complicated.
__________________
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 08:46 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Freedom Elite 23H
State: Virginia
Posts: 250
THOR #19277
|
So now Thor can freeze out competitors by refusing to sell Airxcel products to them?
Do we expect that to happen?
__________________
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 08:51 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 31S
State: Texas
Posts: 4,157
THOR #6411
|
Bob Martin bought Airxcel for the same reason he bought Postle aluminum, to be able to control the supply. Airxcel's innovation has not kept up with the new RV buyers. Where is the 17,000 btu, soft start, three phase, variable speed, quiet, three motor, heat pump. They have been available for the home market in split unit form for last few years. Multiple zone for heat and A/C is archaic to say the least. Why should I have to heat the basement on my coach when the coach is 35 degrees and I run the propane furnace? Why do I have a separate thermostat in the bedroom and in the hall to control the A/Cs that use common ducts with no active dampers and provide little cooling to the driver's compartment? I just think what I have in a 35 year old house should be an option on a new coach. It doesn't have to come on every coach, but it should be a buyer's option.
__________________
Jim & Roy Davis
2016 Hurricane 31S
1961 Rampside in tow
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 08:55 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 25.6
State: New Mexico
Posts: 5,100
THOR #20220
|
Wow
Overview of Airxcel
Airxcel manufactures and sells a comprehensive line of functionally critical, branded products to the RV industry including:
Coleman-Mach*rooftop air conditioners, heat pumps, thermostats and accessoriesSuburban*furnaces, water heaters and cooking appliancesMAXXAIR*ventilation solutionsAqua-Hot*hydronic heating systemsDicor*roofing products, sealants, coatings, wheels and moreVixen Composites*fiberglass reinforced plastic and custom composite panelsCAN*Italian cooking appliances, sinks and accessoriesCleer Vision*windows and tempered glassMCD*roller shadesUnited Shade*window shades
__________________
LAS CRUCES 2020 Thor Vegas 25.6
Lora & George. Golden Retriever & Multi-Gen Australian labradoodle & new ALD in March. Happy Campers!! E Biking, Hiking, Tennis, Scuba,Fishing,Cross Country Skiing, Snowshoeing. Retired H.S. Principal, Sr. IT Engineer, Life & Health Insurance Agent
"Today is a Gift and Why it is called the Present"
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 09:00 PM
|
#8
|
Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,726
THOR #1469
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
The first that came to mind were conflicts of interests in corporate profitability when Airxcel products are used by other RV brands. For example, will Winnebago or Coachmen want to buy Airxcel products knowing it will help their competitor’s bottom line? I don’t know, unless Thor plans to use all/most of Airxcel’s capacity.
What about supply chain when there are shortages? Wouldn’t Thor come first at others’ expense. Just seems like it could get complicated.
|
Sounds like a solid business decision by Thor Industries. Winnebago and others, more than likely, had the same opportunity to purchase Airxcel as Thor had but passed on the deal. Now the other companies must develop a strategy in case Thor doesn’t want to play.
Smart move for Thor.
__________________
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 09:03 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 31S
State: Texas
Posts: 4,157
THOR #6411
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
The first that came to mind were conflicts of interests in corporate profitability when Airxcel products are used by other RV brands. For example, will Winnebago or Coachmen want to buy Airxcel products knowing it will help their competitor’s bottom line? I don’t know, unless Thor plans to use all/most of Airxcel’s capacity.
What about supply chain when there are shortages? Wouldn’t Thor come first at others’ expense. Just seems like it could get complicated.
|
Thor Industries only uses about 30% (by sales) of Airxcel's products. Electrolux (Dometic & Frigidaire) is still in business.
__________________
Jim & Roy Davis
2016 Hurricane 31S
1961 Rampside in tow
|
|
|
09-01-2021, 09:38 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS
Sounds like a solid business decision by Thor Industries. Winnebago and others, more than likely, had the same opportunity to purchase Airxcel as Thor had but passed on the deal. Now the other companies must develop a strategy in case Thor doesn’t want to play.
Smart move for Thor.
|
It’s not just Thor that may not want to play. What if Winnebago and others avoid Coleman and other “Thor”/Airxcel products?
Time will tell what happens overall. For all we know Thor may only be interested in a small part of Airxcel and may have plans to spin the rest off. Who knows?
It will be interesting to follow, and also to see if quality is affected.
I agree A/C lines need to be updated a lot, which will require significant investment that Airxcel may have not had. A couple of years ago they announced they were coming out with DC air conditioner, and it never made it to market as far as I know.
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 12:31 AM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Missouri
Posts: 2,324
THOR #6903
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau388
Bob Martin bought Airxcel for the same reason he bought Postle aluminum, to be able to control the supply. Airxcel's innovation has not kept up with the new RV buyers. Where is the 17,000 btu, soft start, three phase, variable speed, quiet, three motor, heat pump. They have been available for the home market in split unit form for last few years. Multiple zone for heat and A/C is archaic to say the least. Why should I have to heat the basement on my coach when the coach is 35 degrees and I run the propane furnace? Why do I have a separate thermostat in the bedroom and in the hall to control the A/Cs that use common ducts with no active dampers and provide little cooling to the driver's compartment? I just think what I have in a 35 year old house should be an option on a new coach. It doesn't have to come on every coach, but it should be a buyer's option.
|
My three ducted AirXcel units work very well on heat or AC
Zone control is great also
They are ahead of the competition however DC and so on split units are good of course
There has to be a reason they haven't made it on RV'S
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 01:02 AM
|
#12
|
Site Team
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Dakota
Posts: 8,726
THOR #1469
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwmcguire
My three ducted AirXcel units work very well on heat or AC
Zone control is great also
They are ahead of the competition however DC and so on split units are good of course
There has to be a reason they haven't made it on RV'S
|
Cost?
Nomadic 9000 BTU 12VDC is almost $4,000 while a Coleman 13k is less than 800.00.
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 01:45 AM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Aria 3401
State: Washington
Posts: 831
THOR #22245
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumatics
|
Reads like a good decision. Being able to control of ones supply chain and have as much "in house" as possible is good for quality and margin.
__________________
2021 Aria 3401
2021 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk - toad
2010 Porsche Boxster(trailered)
Retired US Navy Corpsman HMC(SW)(FMF)
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 01:55 AM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Chateau 24F
State: Ohio
Posts: 4,089
THOR #16721
|
A classic Goliath crushes competition. This is exactly what the big boxers have done in small town America. It's also why I always make every effort to buy from "main street America" first if possible... which is becoming very difficult with closed/vacant mom & pops turning into the new ghetto.
Vertical consolidation has been accelerating since the 1970s, and we're witness to the results... great for some... not so great for others.
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 01:59 AM
|
#15
|
Junior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Windsport 27B
State: Maryland
Posts: 29
THOR #20189
|
Agree Nomad. Vertical integration has been taught in business schools for years. Given all of the recent supply chain problems, it seems like a good business decision.
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 02:09 AM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Chateau 24F
State: Ohio
Posts: 4,089
THOR #16721
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjoster56
Agree Nomad. Vertical integration has been taught in business schools for years. Given all of the recent supply chain problems, it seems like a good business decision.
|
I think many industries relying on semiconductors from China realized they have no control over those supply chains. Buying up your competition only nets a much larger firm which still has supply chain issues. And who could see THAT happening with the "deals" that were cut 50 years ago? You reap what you sow...
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 10:06 AM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Missouri
Posts: 2,324
THOR #6903
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS
Cost?
Nomadic 9000 BTU 12VDC is almost $4,000 while a Coleman 13k is less than 800.00.
|
Solves that one
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 11:17 AM
|
#18
|
Senior Member
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad
I think many industries relying on semiconductors from China realized they have no control over those supply chains. Buying up your competition only nets a much larger firm which still has supply chain issues. And who could see THAT happening with the "deals" that were cut 50 years ago? You reap what you sow...
|
Maybe worse.
When companies buy air conditioners or whatever from two or three suppliers, they have some backup in case of catastrophic interruptions due to a plant fire, flooding, labor issue, or whatever. Granted, sometimes companies put all their eggs in one basket to save incrementally on costs, which gives them a competitive advantage, but it is a risk they are taking.
I personally don’t see an RV company being able to manufacture air conditioners better than air conditioning “experts”. Competition amongst air conditioning companies should advance the technology and those with the best products for the price (value) will get the most orders from RV manufacturers. I don’t see how Thor owning Coleman directly will make business better long-term unless Airxcel is sitting on intellectual property that they don’t have the funds to implement. A much larger company like Thor could help with funding of new and more advanced products and in the process benefit by using the technology solely on their motorhomes and trailers, but that doesn’t seem as likely to me.
I can see Thor expanding by buying other RV manufacturers like Hymer and other brands, but Airxcel is outside their core business in my opinion. To me it would be like Ford or GM making their own tires instead of buying from multiple suppliers who are experts at making tires, not engines.
__________________
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 11:31 AM
|
#19
|
Axis/Vegas Enthusiast
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Axis 24.4
State: Michigan
Posts: 9,837
THOR #1150
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Maybe worse.
When companies buy air conditioners or whatever from two or three suppliers, they have some backup in case of catastrophic interruptions due to a plant fire, flooding, labor issue, or whatever. Granted, sometimes companies put all their eggs in one basket to save incrementally on costs, which gives them a competitive advantage, but it is a risk they are taking.
I personally don’t see an RV company being able to manufacture air conditioners better than air conditioning “experts”. Competition amongst air conditioning companies should advance the technology and those with the best products for the price (value) will get the most orders from RV manufacturers. I don’t see how Thor owning Coleman directly will make business better long-term unless Airxcel is sitting on intellectual property that they don’t have the funds to implement. A much larger company like Thor could help with funding of new and more advanced products and in the process benefit by using the technology solely on their motorhomes and trailers, but that doesn’t seem as likely to me.
I can see Thor expanding by buying other RV manufacturers like Hymer and other brands, but Airxcel is outside their core business in my opinion. To me it would be like Ford or GM making their own tires instead of buying from multiple suppliers who are experts at making tires, not engines.
|
Case in point: Both Ford and GM spun off their parts operations to independent companies (Visteon and Dephi respectively).
Interesting that they list "expanding aftermarket sales" as a benefit but just a few lines above that is "aftermarket is 20% of sales"...doesn't seem like that much of an expansion.
When I worked back at Ford during a major push to outsource everything one of the long time managers told me: "Its cyclical...we do it this way for a while and then do it that way for a while...it will come back" LOL.
|
|
|
09-02-2021, 12:03 PM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Miramar 35.3
State: Pennsylvania
Posts: 210
THOR #20808
|
Time will tell whether this works out for Thor.
__________________
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|