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Old 09-28-2018, 10:16 PM   #21
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Good issues to think about: "Time will tell the tale..."
But what is it that you'd be looking for IN the "B" of your dreams?
It's probably not the name on the chassis...
What size, what features, and what functional aspects are you looking for?

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Old 10-01-2018, 04:02 AM   #22
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The chassis is the foundation of any motorhome, so it’s very important (at lest to me).

For example, I prefer a gasoline engine over a diesel, and also prefer a larger-displacement naturally-aspirated gasser over a smaller turbocharged engine. I wouldn’t need a V10 like my present camper van, but adequate power and torque is necessary. Having lots of dealerships throughout the USA is a big plus too.

Mercedes Sprinters through 2018 are diesel, more expensive, have fewer dealerships, and the van body is very narrow inside. Most adults can’t sleep across the van, the aisle ends up tight/narrow, and bathrooms are hard to stand in unless they are in very back across van so you can stand in middle of aisle.

Ford offers a NA gasoline V6 with adequate power, a little low on torque, and with limited towing capacity. RV manufacturers often use the long-wheelbase extended van chassis which works best with dual rear wheels because of the very long rear overhang and much higher roof. Ford Transit is rather narrow inside also.

The RAM ProMaster is our version of the Fiat Ducato, which in Europe accounts for about 75% of RVs. It’s front wheel drive, which improves handling and fuel economy. Cost is lowest, and getting in and out easier because of lower step-in. Length is limited to just under 21 feet, making it shorter than others, but makes up for it by being much wider inside. Van sides are more vertical than Sprinter or Transit, which makes mid-coach bathrooms more spacious. Aisles are usually wider also so motorhome feels more open and spacious; albeit shorter.

The ProMaster makes a great van camper platform, but can’t tow much and has a minivan transmission that concerns me. Gear ratios are not up to modern standards, so highway downshifts result in high engine RPMs.


There’s a lot to consider just choosing the right chassis. Beyond that there’s even more to consider in designing your dream camper van.
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Old 10-01-2018, 05:07 AM   #23
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I hope that this improves there sales. As my stock in Thor is down 34% as of Friday. You would think that there buying power and dominance of the market would make them number 1.
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:42 PM   #24
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Winnebago is presently the biggest player in Class B camper vans, and also happen to build on all three major chassis — ProMaster, Sprinter, and Transit (Travato, ERA, and Paseo).

Thor is relatively small in Class Bs, and have focused on luxury models based on Mercedes Sprinters.

The combined volume of EHG and Thor should put them just over Winnebago.

As to profitability, I’m not sure larger size alone is the answer. Very large corporations can go bankrupt which shows they are not exempt from hard times. Having the right product at the right price probably helps more.



SSI: 'B' Sales Stay Strong, up 29% for 7 Months | RV Business

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Originally Posted by article
Statistical Surveys Inc. (SSI) reported that Winnebago Industries Inc. led the segment through July with a 37.6% market share followed by Erwin Hymer Group North America (30.5%) and Thor Industries Inc. (11.3%).
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:30 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
.....cut.....
What size, what features, and what functional aspects are you looking for?
SIZE:

People building their own often go with smaller vans for added maneuverability and stealthiness, but RV manufacturers that mass produce are more likely to use the larger vans as their platform. Buyers want lots of room.

Those who want or need to use their camper vans as a primary or secondary vehicle also place more importance on being able to park in a standard parking spot. For that the longest ProMaster at 21-feet should work OK. My van with spare tire is about that long and I take it just about anywhere, including downtown Houston and other large cities without hesitation. The longer vans at around 24-feet plus could be a challenge to park in a few places — extrapolating from when I carry a hitch-mounted box that puts me at ~ 23 feet.

FEATURES:

A “dream” Class B is just a long list of things we may wish for, knowing we’re not going to get many of them. I’ve only seen one that came close to our wish list, and it was priced close to $200k. That’s not a great investment. Here’s the first 10 items that came to mind.

Safe comfortable forward-facing seats for four.

Comfortable sleeping for two.

Ability to tow small camping trailer.

Parkable at home — HOA approved.

Dry toilet would be great — no wet bath.

Open uncluttered interior — less is more.

Reliable and low maintenance.

Good fuel economy.

Great high-speed handling.

Run A//C all night without generator.


P.S. — I would compromise a lot on size and features if it made it small enough to fit in garage. Not likely since mine doesn’t fit and it’s too small, so packaging would have to be far better for it to work that way.
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:50 PM   #26
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I like your list, and a whole lot of it is certainly possible...
The more that we use our Outlaw: the more we realize that we did a fairly decent job of finding the right rig for us.
It's not perfect; but it's close enough!
We've found that the features match up pretty close to what our priorities have actually turned out to be...
But since the Missus is "five-foot nuthin'...", and the cabinets are about thirty feet in the air...
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:56 PM   #27
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People in Hell want Ice Water. Some things will never happen!!
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Old 10-01-2018, 06:38 PM   #28
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I found it's often best to never say "never".
That sounds a lot like "forever"; and that's a helluva long time!
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:11 PM   #29
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People in Hell want Ice Water. Some things will never happen!!
When I was carrying a 200-pound Sony tube TV upstairs many years ago (with help), I would have said the very same thing about anyone who dreamed of a larger-screen flat-panel Samsung that only weighs 8 pounds. And it’s high definition and cost me 1/10 th in present dollars.

No doubt there’ll always be a market for 40-ft motorhomes weighing over 20,000 pounds, but the trend, and growth rate, is in smaller rigs. That’s probably why Thor bid on EHG.

As I’ve stated before, if any major OEM came out with a huge van chassis, it would revolutionize RV choices. That’s the one missing component (in US market anyway).
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:27 PM   #30
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Assuming that they can build it without the "issues", that plague so many of their RVs...
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:56 PM   #31
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I have a close friend who recently lost her husband (78) but very active...she's done the Great Loop on a Nordic Tug twice and now wants to purchase a van conversion, Class B or something she can travel in but also use as a daily driver. She's looking for something that will offer all amenities of an RV but not something she has to fold up inside and unfold too much for function. It's hard to find without going with a bit wider body than the standard van platform.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:02 PM   #32
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Bob, I was refering to a major US vehicle manufacturer, like Ford, GM, or RAM, building a super-sized van like this foreign one. An RV based on such a large van would be like a small Class A but with OEM quality in many areas an RV manufacturer can’t match. We could have large size plus OEM dash, airbags, doors, A/C, windshield, etc.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:18 PM   #33
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I have a close friend who recently lost her husband (78) but very active...she's done the Great Loop on a Nordic Tug twice and now wants to purchase a van conversion, Class B or something she can travel in but also use as a daily driver. She's looking for something that will offer all amenities of an RV but not something she has to fold up inside and unfold too much for function. It's hard to find without going with a bit wider body than the standard van platform.
Sorry to hear at such a young age.

Agree, width is very important. The ProMaster is 6’-2” wide inside, whereas Sprinter is about 5’-10”. Because walls are more upright, the width difference at eye level when standing is even more. The PM “feels” a lot more than 4” wider.

Unfortunately, the ProMaster is only available up to 20’-10” long, but for a single person or smaller couple, that may be plenty unless living in it. For traveling, I would love one as an upgrade in size — it’s nearly twice the volume of an old Ford Econoline, and about 3X to 4X larger in volume than Classic VW campers vans.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:09 PM   #34
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Don't knock the old VW Vanagen!

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1538431766
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:32 PM   #35
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How close is this Zion SRT to what you're looking for?
http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1538433112
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:48 AM   #36
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At the 2017 Tampa Supershow we looked at the Zion version which is a little longer than the SRT. The longer version had opposing couches in back which combined into a King-size bed. In the Zion you can sleep lengthwise, where in Zion SRT you sleep across the coach.

As I recall it had 400 Amp-hour lithium battery and second alternator to charge batteries quickly. It was nicely equipped, and could run A/C over 3 hours from batteries.

The floorplan was wrong for us in that we want forward-facing seats at front of van. Storage space for larger items (like chairs, table, and a grill) just wasn’t enough.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:08 AM   #37
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If I were in the market for a Class B, this would be a minimum. It has one slide, huge split bed in rear with a QD3600 diesel generator. The body is a one-piece molded fiberglass shell. Pricey but a different built RV than all the other B's. They have tons of floor plans and also offer models with no slides.


Luxury Small Motorhomes | Fuel-Efficient Downsized Class C (Class B-Plus) RVs | Coach House Platinum II 241XL
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:11 PM   #38
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They DO build some really nice rigs...
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Old 10-02-2018, 02:16 PM   #39
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If I were in the market for a Class B, this would be a minimum. It has one slide, huge split bed in rear with a QD3600 diesel generator. The body is a one-piece molded fiberglass shell. Pricey but a different built RV than all the other B's. They have tons of floor plans and also offer models with no slides.


Luxury Small Motorhomes | Fuel-Efficient Downsized Class C (Class B-Plus) RVs | Coach House Platinum II 241XL

Agree they make nice rigs. We tried buying a lightly used Coach House last month as an interim RV, but it had sold before the listing was complete (pictures hadn’t even been posted). It was like new, with only 10,000 miles, and priced way below market value.

Anyway, Coach House makes the Arriva Class B based on 24-foot Mercedes Sprinter van, but the rest of their models are actually Class Cs. The B+ is a marketing term, but officially classified as a Class C (for Cutaway chassis).
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Old 10-02-2018, 02:29 PM   #40
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Downsizing to a true van camper (Class B) takes a lot of compromising on space. To put it in perspective, the largest Bs presently sold in US are well under 500 cubic feet of room behind cab. By comparison, B+ are roughly in 800 to 1,000 cubic feet or more.

For one or two small adults who travel light, I think a B may be enough; not unlike a 30-ft Class C may be enough for a family of 4 and a dog.

What surprises me somewhat is that a lot of B buyers (or DIY builders) choose vans that are much smaller than what’s available, even though costs are about the same. Some go with 300 cubic feet of room when 450 is almost the same cost. It tells me some campers really do prefer smaller rigs, and that cost is not the primary driver.
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