Vegas batteries dead even though plugged in and converter working

JoeDS · 09-22-2018, 03:24 AM

Came back from a 5 week trip. Went to start my Vegas and both the chassis battery and coach battery dead. Unit was plugged in and converter was working but would not charge the batteries.

Put a charger on the coach battery for about 6 hours and that worked enough to run the lights but no charge at all in the chassis battery. Pressed the bypass switch, engine started up ok let it run a few minutes shut it down.

A few minutes later I heard several relays click and like magic everything returned to normal and the coach converter started charging both systems!!!

Anyone have any ideas on what malfunctioned/

JamieGeek · 09-22-2018, 03:34 AM

The Use/Store switch must be on Use when storing while plugged in.

If in Store the batteries are disconnected from the converter/charger and thus won't charge or maintain a charge.

Muggs · 09-22-2018, 11:02 AM

I learned this the hard way when I brought mine home. Left it in yard in store position. Between grandsons watching dvds and other systems chassis battery was dead and house batteries low. Now we never use store position as it is always plugged in. No more issues.

Bob Denman · 09-22-2018, 12:40 PM

Glad to see that you got it figured out!

It would be REALLY nice if this one little switch got a whole lot more attention during the delivery of the rig!

JoeDS · 09-22-2018, 12:52 PM

Muggs and Jamie, thanks for the assist.

My unit has been in storage at my house since our last trip in April with no problems. While we were gone something went wrong.

As for the use/store switch as you are aware it is spring loaded so it stays in a neutral position. You push-to-use and you push-to-store. When you do you can hear the relay click in or out.

I did notice with the batteries run down the use/store switch was not functional even with the unit plugged in. In an ordinary RV this contractor is usually a two coil device (latching relay) that you energize one coil or the other and it latches in one position or the other. In my previous RVs (trailers and truck campers) when you plug into shore power this relay was bypassed and the batteries went on the charging circuit regardless. Apparently on our units this is not the case due to the more complex logic of a motor home.

Something is wrong somewhere because what ever went wrong it should not have allowed the engine battery to also discharge. It is supposed to be separated from the coach battery to prevent it from being discharged when the RV battery runs down.

Has anyone "out there" ever been able to get a wiring diagram of our unit. I have even had it in to Thor service to work on this before. The serviceshop doesn't even have a diagram!!

JoeDS · 09-22-2018, 01:07 PM

PS:

To have the store/use circuit controlled by the battery is rather stupid. To have to have a charged up battery to allow the charger circuit to charge does not make sense.

I had to put on an external charger to charge my battery to allow the relay to activate to allow the coach charger to kick in and charge the battery.

Again the engine battery ran completely down as well. The two systems should be completely separate.

**16ACE27** · 09-22-2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeDS

PS:

To have the store/use circuit controlled by the battery is rather stupid. To have to have a charged up battery to allow the charger circuit to charge does not make sense.

I had to put on an external charger to charge my battery to allow the relay to activate to allow the coach charger to kick in and charge the battery.

Again the engine battery ran completely down as well. The two systems should be completely separate.

Normally, they are supposed to be separate except when using the emergency start switch or when charging either from the converter (also charges the chassis battery) or the engine alternator (also charges the house batteries).

Have you downloaded Ed's Axis/Vegas crowd sourced manual? It has a good explanation and diagram of how this works.

The fact that both batteries died indicates either that the cross-connect solenoid is stuck closed or you have a drain on both the house and chassis battery sides.

JoeDS · 09-22-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tfryman

Normally, they are supposed to be separate except when using the emergency start switch or when charging either from the converter (also charges the chassis battery) or the engine alternator (also charges the house batteries).

Have you downloaded Ed's Axis/Vegas crowd sourced manual? It has a good explanation and diagram of how this works.

The fact that both batteries died indicates either that the cross-connect solenoid is stuck closed or you have a drain on both the house and chassis battery sides.

Thanks, and yes I have that manual but even though it has good information on the various modules of our unit it does not have an overall wiring schematic of how it is all put together. As far as drains go you will always have a small drain on the engine side due to its computer is always "on" but that should not be so large to completely drain the battery in a month or so of inactivity. I have a truck and two cars and they all started right up during the same period of non use. ?!?!?

JoeDS · 09-22-2018, 03:20 PM

As a followup to my own post. I dug in a little more and indeed the use/store function does control a latching relay with 2 coils and it remains in the state last energized.

It is activated by the RV battery. It must be in the USE mode for the charger to charge the system even when plugged in to shore power.

That's wear I normally leave it. Don't know what happened this time.

With that said, when the RV is plugged in, proper design would be to have the charger charge the batteries like it has been on other RV that Ive had in the past.

At this point I would like to rewire the system, but without any wiring diagrams that is almost impossible. Our units are all connected together by plugin wiring harness to a main controller in that outside compartment under the drivers seat. It might be easier to to just buy 2 battery minders and plug them in.

Actually I think I know what the real problem is. We visited Norway an I suspect a Troll sneaked in to my checked luggage (they are invisible in the daytime you know, so TSA cant detect them) and has taken up residence in my RV. At night time he goes around flipping switches. Has to be that. It cant be me or Thor's fault. Makes real sense. Thor - Vikings - Trolls. It all fits!

JamieGeek · 09-22-2018, 05:49 PM

To get a sort of wiring diagram just call Thor with your VIN they will e-mail it to you (while you're at it just ask them for all the construction diagrams). Wait until Monday to call, however.

JamieGeek · 09-22-2018, 09:07 PM

Sadly I'm going to be the IP police here: We really shouldn't be publishing the construction drawings from Thor. It is Thor's intellectual property to give, not ours and your unit may not be built the same (really, like I have to say this! LOL) as anyone else's. I only mention it because Thor has been really nice about giving these to anyone who asks but if they see that they immediately end up on the internet they may have a change of heart.

In addition, your links above include your VIN which can be PII (Personally Identifiable Information--privacy stuff).

Ok getting off my soapbox now....

Bob Denman · 09-22-2018, 10:01 PM

Uh-Oh...

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1537653656

**fhenn** · 09-22-2018, 10:23 PM

IP police were here

Bob Denman · 09-22-2018, 10:42 PM

In Other Words...

Cheese it: The Cops!

(no disrespect intended...

)

http://www.thorforums.com/forums/att...1&d=1537656118

JoeDS · 09-23-2018, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

To get a sort of wiring diagram just call Thor with your VIN they will e-mail it to you (while you're at it just ask them for all the construction diagrams). Wait until Monday to call, however.

Jamie,

Good idea on asking for ALL of them.

So far I've been unable to get a schematic or ladder diagram from Thor on the 12v battery wiring. I did get a 10 pages of documents that showed all of the wiring harnesses in the coach EXCEPT for the 12 battery wiring. I was going back to Ed Felkers book last night and he references several drawings I dont have one of which is labeled "battery Schematic"

Think I will try again this week.

Bob Denman · 09-23-2018, 07:40 PM

Happy hunting, and good luck!

Buttonguy52 · 09-24-2018, 12:59 PM

Have you tightened all the connections to battery? I thought mine was gone. Went to get new battery and all connections loose. I looked at battery and it looked like a junk yard battery so for 119. Bucks had it changed out.

JoeDS · 09-24-2018, 01:13 PM

Yes. They are good. Brand new batteries in fact installed by Interstate.

fivejackie · 09-24-2018, 04:34 PM

We could not shut off our porch light. I turn the light on with the remote, it was over riding the switch. I finally able to turn it off with the remote. After that the switch for the porch light worked fine.

Try using your remote to turn off the light. It might just work, make sure your switch inside is off.

gnach · 09-25-2018, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhenn

IP police were here

Janet must have had a change of heart re: our sharing construction diagrams that we've acquired from Thor. Yeah, I get concept and have found my own images lifted on the 'net BUT who could use these diagrams but the coach owners or service techs? As a contractor, I was required to provide the owner with a set of As-Built drawings upon completion. On the purchase of an expensive studio apartment on wheels we are given a generic and near useless manual. Thor should provide those drawings with a legit manual, maybe on CD. How much money gets wasted paying a service tech to trouble shoot a problem that a schematic could have pin pointed? The service writer at CW thanked me for the dash wiring diagram saying the Thor didn't provide them. (Could have been another of his lies like "we can't wash the roof of your new rig because OSHA doesn't allow us up on the roof.")

Ed's manual is a fantastic concept and a tremendous help to us owners but it was developed because Thor doesn't. Frankly, I see our sharing the drawings as a benefit to Thor, doing the job for them.

...stepping off the soap box to take my blood pressure meds

You may also like: