Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Community Forums > Thor Owners Community Discussions
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-17-2021, 11:07 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32
State: Alabama
Posts: 779
THOR #22586
Weighing requirement

This is a shoulda thing. RVIA should require that every RV be weighed by the manufacturer with individual axle weights and have that information provided to a potential customer. Every truck, maybe every vehicle, has a door jamb sticker, Tire and Loading which shows available cargo for that vehicle as it left the factory.

The problem for RVs especially a motorhomes, is there may be a CCC available but in fact it's largely unusable. Why, because while there is available CCC for total capacity, the margin for an axle isn't there. Throw in the fact that front loading capacity is generally very limited, where are you going to put items and remain within GVWR or rear AWR. For a motorhome we already have the yellow door sticker showing available cargo capacity, we have GVWR and GAWR front and rear but since you don't know what the RV weighs for each axle you don't know how much cargo you can really carry.

I suspect that RV manufacturers would fight that proposal tooth and nail because they don't want the uninformed to know there isn't any real or safe way to carry what they show in CCC. Also a standardized loading for an RV at the scales. When I was doing my C shopping, I asked several times what that CCC. was based on? Full fuel, propane, batteries, ??? I got several answers and even the answers supposedly provided by the companies varied. That goes for Thor, Forrest River and Winnebago.

__________________
2021 Thor Omni XG32
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 12:23 PM   #2
Site Team
 
EA37TS's Avatar
 
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Carolina
Posts: 6,308
THOR #1469
3 problems.

The manufacturer supplies the unfinished vehicle to the RV manufacturer with their axle weight limits. The RV manufacturer then completes the vehicle. The Dynamax Isata 5 had real problems for awhile because they came off the line with max weight on the rear axle.

RVIA will tell you they do not represent RV owners and their loyalty is to their member manufacturers. There is no requirement that manufacturers belong or build to RVIA standards.

RVIA lobbied Congress on behalf of RV manufacturers. There is no one that lobbies on behalf of RV owners.

Great idea but it will never happen. Consumer beware.
__________________
EA37TS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 12:32 PM   #3
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 21,599
THOR #8860
Yup...
Purchasing an RV is a MAJOR expense for most folks. As a result: it should warrant a pretty fair amount of research from a prospective buyer.

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/at...1&d=1631881864
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	What He Said....jpg
Views:	33
Size:	17.1 KB
ID:	33705  
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 12:50 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32
State: Alabama
Posts: 779
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS View Post
3 problems.

The manufacturer supplies the unfinished vehicle to the RV manufacturer with their axle weight limits. The RV manufacturer then completes the vehicle. The Dynamax Isata 5 had real problems for awhile because they came off the line with max weight on the rear axle.

RVIA will tell you they do not represent RV owners and their loyalty is to their member manufacturers. There is no requirement that manufacturers belong or build to RVIA standards.

RVIA lobbied Congress on behalf of RV manufacturers. There is no one that lobbies on behalf of RV owners.

Great idea but it will never happen. Consumer beware.
I agree it's just a wish list. Sadly I think most RV buyers are largely uninformed and are clueless what CCC even means or how it applies. If they even see a number such as on the tire and loading sticker, they don't know what it means, how it was calculated or what they can do with it. Ignorance is bliss I suppose so I figure the majority if RV owner's are very blissful. It's preaching to the choir here because I think that forum members are going to be more informed that the general public which is why we are here in the first place. Find out stuff.
__________________
2021 Thor Omni XG32
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 01:08 PM   #5
Site Team
 
EA37TS's Avatar
 
Brand: Entegra
Model: Accolade 37TS
State: South Carolina
Posts: 6,308
THOR #1469
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunker21 View Post
I agree it's just a wish list. Sadly I think most RV buyers are largely uninformed and are clueless what CCC even means or how it applies. If they even see a number such as on the tire and loading sticker, they don't know what it means, how it was calculated or what they can do with it. Ignorance is bliss I suppose so I figure the majority if RV owner's are very blissful. It's preaching to the choir here because I think that forum members are going to be more informed that the general public which is why we are here in the first place. Find out stuff.
Look at the number of motorhomes running down the road that are clearly over weight. Small class As pulling tandem axle stacker trailers,

When we went out West I believe it is Wyoming that requires all boats crossing into the state stop for an inspection. For things to change maybe states should require all RVs cross the scales and then ticket anyone over weight. Might open some eyes and educate folks.
__________________
EA37TS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 01:16 PM   #6
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 21,599
THOR #8860
It sure would keep the Dealerships busy on Monday mornings... answering all those phone calls from irate buyers!
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 01:24 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32
State: Alabama
Posts: 779
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
It sure would keep the Dealerships busy on Monday mornings... answering all those phone calls from irate buyers!
And potentially be a cash cow for state revenues.
__________________
2021 Thor Omni XG32
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 03:37 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Travelin' Texans's Avatar
 
Brand: Redwood
State: Texas
Posts: 1,484
THOR #3610
This is also an issue with towables!
The truck manufacturers advertise the "max towing weights" of their trucks, in an attempt to one up the other guys, when that number is meaningless to anyone towing a RV.
That number was arrived at by the manufacturer towing low profile utility type trailers with the load of blocks placed directly over the axles thereby considerably reducing the tongue/pin weights, this isn't possible with a RV. The payload of an individual truck will be exceeded long before it would/could ever "carry" the load of a RV at it's rated max towing weight.
RV manufacturers are guilty of the same false advertising when they call an entire segment of their 5th wheels "1/2 ton towable", most all of that segment will exceed the payload of the average 1/2 to truck usually before the buyer loads anything into the truck or rv.
The other misnomers are "Polar", "Artic", "4 Season" or any other gimmicky name insinuating it's equipped to handle sub zero temps. A layer of Reflectix (shiny bubble wrap) with the under belly covered doesn't equip it for freezing temps.
__________________
Danny & Linda
Sold '13 Thor Redwood 36 FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Currently RV & truckless
Replacement undetermined
Travelin' Texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 03:42 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Florida
Posts: 733
THOR #5313
We did a lot of calculation before buying RV. I had heard a lot about GVWR/GCVWR/OCC.

All 3 of the RVs we looked at had yellow sticker. We ended up selecting Vegas with 3199 lb OCC/22000 lb GCVW. I figured staying below weights would keep unit drivable and able to keep up with traffic/merge etc.

We weighed, adjusted tongue and weighed again multiple times. The heaviest we have been is just over 19000. Usually 18300 lbs. 500 lb tongue limitation was easy.

Decide what you really need and they look. Any question in your mind go weigh. The chose what fits to prevent disappointment.
__________________
Muggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 03:51 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32
State: Alabama
Posts: 779
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
We did a lot of calculation before buying RV. I had heard a lot about GVWR/GCVWR/OCC.

All 3 of the RVs we looked at had yellow sticker. We ended up selecting Vegas with 3199 lb OCC/22000 lb GCVW. I figured staying below weights would keep unit drivable and able to keep up with traffic/merge etc.

We weighed, adjusted tongue and weighed again multiple times. The heaviest we have been is just over 19000. Usually 18300 lbs. 500 lb tongue limitation was easy.

Decide what you really need and they look. Any question in your mind go weigh. The chose what fits to prevent disappointment.
The problem is knowing what the weights are before the purchase. Generally speaking a dealer isn't going to take it to the scales or let you take it. Take a gas C for example. There may be a 2000 available cargo capacity but very little between the actual rear axle weight and the axle weight rating. Bunches available for the front axle but of course how are you going to load it with weight up front when there isn't any meaningful space to put it. Trailers, especially 5th wheels have the opposite issue, heavy front ends and of course where is the cargo areas, up front of course. Usually very little in the rear unless it's a toy hauler, different animal. Sadly most buyers haven't heard the CCC issues and don't know what all those alphabet letters mean anyway.
__________________
2021 Thor Omni XG32
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 03:57 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32
State: Alabama
Posts: 779
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Someone said
Clueless.

To immerse yourself in to something as all consuming as rv purchase/travel and PURPOSEFULLY remain clueless should be a red flag...b7tbinstead, some9ne asks for m9re regulation.


Some would rather take the easy route of being
Governed
Than to invest the slightest modicum of thought for themselves.

Pre
sented with 300 pages if owners manuals, the internet, the s ales force many/most still can't find tue black tank valve or the coach power switch.

Three more numbers on a sticker, on a wall, near a seat(that 50 people a month here couldn't find and had to ask where it is)won't do anything.
I don't propose increased regulations or governing but instead self industry regulating, thus the RVIA comment. The last thing we need is a form of EPA for RVs to screw things up more. Asking people to become informed is a lost cause in itself too.
__________________
2021 Thor Omni XG32
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 04:08 PM   #12
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 21,599
THOR #8860
Some folks aren't happy unless their food is chewed for them; and then spit down their throat...
__________________
"What: me worry?"
Good Sam Member 843599689
Current coach: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 04:16 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
ducksface's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 3,631
THOR #13932
I deleted my post.
I decided if fear is what keeps them viable, let them fear the 5psi or the 100lbs over towing capacity.
Fear is why I have a dash-cam. Fear(and complete lack of ability) is why I don't have a helicopter.
We all have a line. Some enjoy not having to draw their own line.

I can't sway their decisions much and if I do, I can't control the sway. They are static now(and that's a good thing for all of us) I don't want to unleash the Kraken of
Devil May Care
In those folks who can't find their seat adjuster.


Bobs
Chew their food
Made me answer as to why my post went missing.

I think from now on I might leave the
3,000 mile/6 months oil changers
Just lay where they land.
__________________
Below is a link to most of my modifications either accomplished or pending.
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f2...n-18996-3.html

Click on my pictures then click the pop-up for a full screen zoomable picture.
ducksface is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 04:23 PM   #14
MLP
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: California
Posts: 377
THOR #17478
As far as trailers and fifth wheels go, do not rely on the amount of weigh you can add by the sticker. That is set for a basic trailer. If you got the second AC, and a lot of extras, well the weight is not included in the base weight of the trailer. So you have to weigh it to find out. Yes you have to purchase and then weigh to find out you can have food, no water, and only a quarter of what you thought you could carry. Most do not weigh and are over weight by a lot. We had our fifth wheel weighed at a Goshen rally. We were within 100 pounds left to right and front axle and back. We were basically at max weight which is about what I calculated. We were congratulated and told some weighed that day were as high as 3k overweight. We were among the very few that were within the weight allowed.
__________________
2013 Thor Palazzo 33.2
2013 Honda CRV
MLP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2021, 05:29 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32
State: Alabama
Posts: 779
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLP View Post
As far as trailers and fifth wheels go, do not rely on the amount of weigh you can add by the sticker. That is set for a basic trailer. If you got the second AC, and a lot of extras, well the weight is not included in the base weight of the trailer. So you have to weigh it to find out. Yes you have to purchase and then weigh to find out you can have food, no water, and only a quarter of what you thought you could carry. Most do not weigh and are over weight by a lot. We had our fifth wheel weighed at a Goshen rally. We were within 100 pounds left to right and front axle and back. We were basically at max weight which is about what I calculated. We were congratulated and told some weighed that day were as high as 3k overweight. We were among the very few that were within the weight allowed.
CAT scales are a wonderful and magical place that result in "being informed". But a lot of people can't spell CAT. I also am not trying to save the world or people who don't want to be saved. Unless asked in a campground, I don't go around and ask anyone if they have taken their 44' toy hauler 5th wheel being towed by an F-250 short bed how their scales trip was.

When I bought the Omni I knew what the CCC was supposed to be, I just didn't know where it could be. Turns out I'm in pretty good shape, better than I would have guessed. 1/2 tank fresh water and mostly loaded for travel, I have 1400# to GVWR and 1500# to RAWR and about the same for the front.

About trailers the sticker on one is "supposed" to be as it left the factory with options installed on it. It doesn't include, propane, batteries, dealer added items, etc. Yes a trip to the scales is advised if you want to know the facts.
__________________
2021 Thor Omni XG32
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2021, 12:45 AM   #16
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 21,599
THOR #8860
Ducky,
Sorry: I didn't mean to cramp you up...
__________________
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2021, 02:18 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Chateau 24F
State: Ohio
Posts: 831
THOR #16721
Problem is you can't fix stupid. There's idiots out on the highways pulling overloaded 5th wheels with underrated trucks... with a 4-wheeler on a trailer in tow! We were in Tennessee this past spring. I lost count of these guys passing me on the freeway going at least 80. !!! Watching that third trailer fishtail in the wind... a disaster waiting to kill some innocent people.

Can you imagine one of these UNSAFE rigs coming around a turn - out of control - on a two lane highway - coming straight at you?

Asking people to regulate themselves? Try removing all stop signs and watch common sense in action.

Expecting the RV industry to regulate itself is naive. They will ALWAYS simply tell people what they want to hear... as long as there are no repercussions. Remember when dentists were telling us how healthy smoking is? That went really well...

IMO regulation is required when the "do no harm" principle is violated. If there is no harm to others... have at it.
__________________
Chateau_Nomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2021, 10:38 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Freedom Traveller A27
State: North Carolina
Posts: 648
THOR #17765
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunker21 View Post
CAT scales are a wonderful and magical place that result in "being informed". But a lot of people can't spell CAT. I also am not trying to save the world or people who don't want to be saved. Unless asked in a campground, I don't go around and ask anyone if they have taken their 44' toy hauler 5th wheel being towed by an F-250 short bed how their scales trip was.

When I bought the Omni I knew what the CCC was supposed to be, I just didn't know where it could be. Turns out I'm in pretty good shape, better than I would have guessed. 1/2 tank fresh water and mostly loaded for travel, I have 1400# to GVWR and 1500# to RAWR and about the same for the front.

About trailers the sticker on one is "supposed" to be as it left the factory with options installed on it. It doesn't include, propane, batteries, dealer added items, etc. Yes a trip to the scales is advised if you want to know the facts.
Im the opposite. With full fuel, 80 gals. Full water, 50 gals. All our stuff. No wife and no dogs. I scaled at 15,980. Have 16,000 GVWR. lol have to ask her to get out and sneak thru the woods behind the weigh station.
__________________
Jimbo56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2021, 11:46 AM   #19
I Think We're Lost!
 
Bob Denman's Avatar
 
Brand: Still Looking
Model: Tiffin Wayfarer 24 BW
State: New York
Posts: 21,599
THOR #8860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo56 View Post
Im the opposite. With full fuel, 80 gals. Full water, 50 gals. All our stuff. No wife and no dogs. I scaled at 15,980. Have 16,000 GVWR. lol have to ask her to get out and sneak thru the woods behind the weigh station.
I guess you wouldn't want to ask her to clean the wax out of her ears, and the lint out of her bellybutton; as a way to cut down on the loaded weight...
__________________
Bob Denman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 08:59 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Hurricane 29M
State: Texas
Posts: 1,624
THOR #11781
The 'government' regulates all kinds of things in the name of safety. Why not regulate the RV industry? One reason is the RV industry lobbies against such regulations so they can sell crap campers to unsuspecting customers. Not everyone is as smart as some of the posters here think they are. Consumers have all kinds of experience levels. Some have RV'd for years, some have dreamed for years and for some it's a passing fancy. But to me, the main reason there is no real regulatory control of the RV industry is because you have to have disposable income to purchase an RV. Modern government only seeks to redistribute this disposable income from those that have it to those that don't and if after that process you still have enough for an RV, the government doesn't give a damn about you.
__________________
Lt Keefer
2018 Hurricane 29M
CHF, Saf-T-Plus, SumoSprings
Lt Keefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 04:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2