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Old 06-02-2019, 07:11 PM   #1
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What millennials want in an RV?

Interesting opinions on what millennials want in an RV:

Start with better design

Build smaller

Focus on quality

Look to Europe

Provide more gear storage

Etc....

https://www.curbed.com/2019/5/31/186...e-camping-tips


I have a hard time thinking that what millennials want is all that different from many others in different age groups. Additionally, not everyone within an age group wants the same, including millennials.

Some of the article seems superficial, but a lot of it resonates with me. Who doesn’t want a smaller, higher quality, more functional and elegant RV that is nice to look at?

What do you think? Are millennials and what they want from an RV really that different? According to Thor CEO millennials will be a significant group of buyers within 5 years, and Thor must adjust.

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Old 06-02-2019, 09:31 PM   #2
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while the M group 'could' be in the market in several years, I bet it's actually much, much longer before they really get to the age where 'investing' in a mobile camping vehicle is high on their list, especially as they seem to be more overcautious about the impact on the 'environment', etc.
Why would they want to go to an rv park and 'plug in' to the very electrical power supply source they want to 'do away with'? Maybe 'solar' is their answer, but it's quite an expensive proposition, at least to do all that they 'want' to do, with all of their 'electrical' devices.
If the M group puts off having children until later in life, it also bodes well that they won't be buying anything to 'take the kids camping' with for many years in the future.

I'm only in my early 50's, and would say that most prior to my age aren't necessarily investing in the most numbers of RVs as the older groups, at least the ones up to 20 or more years older than myself... I agree, though, that all the shows about tiny houses and RVing may be seeming to create a sudden 'rush' to the RV purchase, though, even for much younger ages who can now do their 'business' while not at a traditional 'office' or work place.

If changes are expected, I would think they might be:

-more 'computer' space, options
-less reliance on propane, or any type of extra 'fuel'
-more solar and inverter options
-more dispersed camping options in more non-traditional areas
-if you removed the stove and oven you'd probably also see little resistance
-more counter space

I think size will always vary depending on whether a single, couple, or family - and whether some choose 'glamping', or camping, or 'resorting', or off-gridding, etc.
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Old 06-02-2019, 09:54 PM   #3
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I thought that they just wanted somebody else to buy it for them...
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:00 PM   #4
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Millenial's are currently 23-38--that top end includes many families that RV (including some that own motorhomes).
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:31 PM   #5
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So they want it smaller; only with more gear space?

When they figure out how to pull THAT rabbit out of a hat: let me know...
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
So they want it smaller; only with more gear space?

When they figure out how to pull THAT rabbit out of a hat: let me know...
Sure its called a TARDIS (geek joke ).
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:29 AM   #7
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i read that article this AM...it showed up in my news feed.
Yeah, I ticked off several of those "wants" myself....and I'm not in that generation. It mostly struck me as a fluff piece...mostly just saying that the industry is hoping younger folks will start buying more.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:02 AM   #8
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So they want it smaller; only with more gear space?

When they figure out how to pull THAT rabbit out of a hat: let me know...
Millennials are apparently interested in European-style bike garages just like we’ve discussed on this forum many many times. Hymer and other Euro motorhome builders include bike-size garages in their designs even when motorhomes are much smaller than an Axis/Vegas. It doesn’t take a millennial to see that some buyers want to take bikes along. In the USA it’s been more like huge garages for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles, etc.

It can’t be that difficult to design and build a large gear storage garage if only manufacturers thought there was demand.


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For me, my camper is not just a mobile home that goes from RV parking lot to parking lot. I explore off-the-grid, and I use bikes, kayaks, SUPs, skis, snowboards, and climbing gear to do it. But an alarming number of RVs have no place to put bikes for a family, much less larger items. I believe this is why van life is so appealing to younger generations; even though vans are smaller than other types of RVs, they often have more room to store bikes, skis, and even snowmobiles.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:23 AM   #9
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By the way, the new for 2020 Coachmen Pursuit 27XPS design may have already been influenced by some of what’s being discussed here. It’s only 29-ft long, has no slide, and a fairly good size bike garage (picture below).
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:30 AM   #10
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I think the industry is in dyer need of overhaul. I am not millinenia but I have been looking hard to buy an RV for a year.

I don't think it is nothing wrong with all of the sizes for different needs; but it is shocking they don't make what I assume would be a niche for new market growth.

But to start, the quality problem has to be fixed. If I have to hear about a PDI one more time... It is mind boggling to see all of the defects with a brand new MH on the lot never sold. Lot of folks may not buy because they don't feel comfortable to identify all that may be wrong during a PDI.

Across the board, every new RV should rise about $2,500 so the mfg can offer a 4 year warranty. Sell the ESP, but it should be for years 5 - 7 etc. If Mfg knew it has to last 4 years (at least 3 ); we would all see the Q in Quality improve.

Propane should be eliminated. Everything should be electric off the batteries, solar or shore. Electric stoves, ovens, refrigerators, heat etc.

There should be more done for energy efficiency within the coaches. During summer excess heat can come from from windshields, skylights etc. More energy required to keep cool.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:44 AM   #11
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My 2cents worth...I'm so glad that I'm so far ahead of this group and will not have to depend on their contributions of live. Any business that builds their profile on the dependence on them will sure go bust. If Thor equips them with a debit card reader and allow them to just go to any dealers lot, swipe mom's card and use them for a few days...leaving them wherever they wish when they're done...it might work. They don't want to own anything...much less, a motorhome...it's bigger than their "tiny house". Maybe a teardrop, no frills trailer the size of small dumpster, but nothing more. If you design your business profile around people "using" your products versus actually "buying" your products... you'll make it with this group...but it best be all about using stuff...not owning it.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
I think the industry is in dyer need of overhaul. I am not millinenia but I have been looking hard to buy an RV for a year.

I don't think it is nothing wrong with all of the sizes for different needs; but it is shocking they don't make what I assume would be a niche for new market growth.

But to start, the quality problem has to be fixed. If I have to hear about a PDI one more time... It is mind boggling to see all of the defects with a brand new MH on the lot never sold. Lot of folks may not buy because they don't feel comfortable to identify all that may be wrong during a PDI.

Across the board, every new RV should rise about $2,500 so the mfg can offer a 4 year warranty. Sell the ESP, but it should be for years 5 - 7 etc. If Mfg knew it has to last 4 years (at least 3 ); we would all see the Q in Quality improve.

Propane should be eliminated. Everything should be electric off the batteries, solar or shore. Electric stoves, ovens, refrigerators, heat etc.

There should be more done for energy efficiency within the coaches. During summer excess heat can come from from windshields, skylights etc. More energy required to keep cool.
I agree with most of what you say..... Except elimainating propane. Propane is cheap and clean burning. I love using propane for my frig and stove. Plus its much cheaper than solar and the extra batteries needed to run stuff without propane. Not to mention lighter than 4 or 6 batteries and panels etc.

Sure I would love to be more "Green" but IMO we are not there yet. As battieries get better, cheaper, and lighter they will trickle down the the RV's then we can eliminate propane (Perhaps even the engine and replace with electic motor).

Everyone likes the big windows and skylights but they come at a price of efficiency. But using the cermic tint on all my windows (including the Windsheild) helps greatly.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:49 PM   #13
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I agree about propane..I like it and wouldn't want to give it up just yet....except I read into the concept of getting rid of it to mean....improve battery tech, bring down the costs enough, make better fridges, etc... so that going all electric can start making more sense.
I have had some minor headaches finding refills for propane...and then there's the fire risk with a propane fridge....
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
I think the industry is in dyer need of overhaul. I am not millinenia but I have been looking hard to buy an RV for a year.

.....cut......
I agree 100% with RV industry needing major overhaul. We’ve been looking for years and can’t find anything we want to own. Perhaps my mindset is similar to millennials in that if I can’t trust in a product’s quality and reliability, why would I want to own it instead of renting. I prefer to own, but based on all the threads of people having problems with their rigs, I just don’t want to take the risk. Not to mention that I find designs lacking in attention to details that drives me nuts. I just can’t understand RV designers.

The picture I posted above of bike garage is a good example. Why is chassis frame allowed to be in the way of having a flat garage floor? If they are going to build something, build it right or not at all. I know it would cost a bit more to modify the frame, but so what?

Just like some buyers are willing to pay over $5,000 for a slideout room, and others for extra air conditioner, I’d happily pay $500 to have them modify the frame extension so garage is deeper with flat floor, just like Europeans have been building for decades.

Another stupid decision on Coachmen’s part is using furniture that is too large for the space, and using too much of it. If they are going to build a motorhome without a slide, cramming so much into the space that there is little room to move around is a recipe for failure. I’ve only found a few pictures of their new slideless Class A but the aisle looks way too narrow. The dinette and opposing couch are too wide for this application.

The article mentions less is more, and “elegant” designs. For my taste, this new Coachmen is an example of them trying but doing a poor job at design. Everything looks cheap, which I expect was their main objective.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:43 PM   #15
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I agree 100% with RV industry needing major overhaul. We’ve been looking for years and can’t find anything we want to own. Perhaps my mindset is similar to millennials in that if I can’t trust in a product’s quality and reliability, why would I want to own it instead of renting. I prefer to own, but based on all the threads of people having problems with their rigs, I just don’t want to take the risk. Not to mention that I find designs lacking in attention to details that drives me nuts. I just can’t understand RV designers.

The picture I posted above of bike garage is a good example. Why is chassis frame allowed to be in the way of having a flat garage floor? If they are going to build something, build it right or not at all. I know it would cost a bit more to modify the frame, but so what?

Just like some buyers are willing to pay over $5,000 for a slideout room, and others for extra air conditioner, I’d happily pay $500 to have them modify the frame extension so garage is deeper with flat floor, just like Europeans have been building for decades.

Another stupid decision on Coachmen’s part is using furniture that is too large for the space, and using too much of it. If they are going to build a motorhome without a slide, cramming so much into the space that there is little room to move around is a recipe for failure. I’ve only found a few pictures of their new slideless Class A but the aisle looks way too narrow. The dinette and opposing couch are too wide for this application.

The article mentions less is more, and “elegant” designs. For my taste, this new Coachmen is an example of them trying but doing a poor job at design. Everything looks cheap, which I expect was their main objective.
Yeah looking at the 3D view of that model:
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=HMVKnLvmJvJ

It looks like they designed it for a slide and forgot to cut the hole in the side!
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:58 PM   #16
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My millennial son has lots of very strong opinions on almost everything. But he doesn’t actually BUY much of anything. He doesn’t own a car, shares a rented house with two roomies and hasn’t bothered to fix his motorcycle. Says if he can’t get there on a bicycle or carry it on one he doesn’t need to go or own it. But he has spent months in Europe and is leaving for Chile next week. I’d not pay much attention to his strong opinions!

And, I REALLY like my 2016 class A coach. It’s nicely designed and equipped and seems to be pretty reliable. Manufacturers have been selling all they can build so I’m guessing they ARE paying attention to market dynamics.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:02 PM   #17
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It's a matter of what their priorities are...
Travelling the World; is a pretty neat adventure... But it's tough to buy houses and cars at the same time...
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
By the way, the new for 2020 Coachmen Pursuit 27XPS design may have already been influenced by some of what’s being discussed here. It’s only 29-ft long, has no slide, and a fairly good size bike garage (picture below).
I really like this design over all. It just need a slide in the living area and a folding counter top extension. Great storage. Not crazy about showers by them selves.... A rather see the sink by its self.... but not a deal breaker.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:40 PM   #19
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Yeah looking at the 3D view of that model:
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=HMVKnLvmJvJ

It looks like they designed it for a slide and forgot to cut the hole in the side!

Here are two pictures from similar angles that look very different to me. Unless it’s an optical illusion I’m not seeing correctly, the Thor 28A Class C has a much wider aisle than the Coachmen Class A, even though they are both exactly the same width at 102 inches.

Having traveled extensively in this kind of floorplan, I can say that the aisle needs to be wide enough so that a person can get through while someone else is sitting on couch. Having a wider dinette may be nice, but shaving a few inches off will mean more when added to a narrow aisle. And same goes for couch width.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:38 PM   #20
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I really like this design over all. It just need a slide in the living area and a folding counter top extension. Great storage. Not crazy about showers by them selves.... A rather see the sink by its self.... but not a deal breaker.

There’s a lot I also like, particularly the bike garage and no slide, but there’s also much I consider questionable design.

Wheelbase is short for a 29-foot motorhome. Unless I first drove one in crosswinds, I’d assume handling issues, particularly due to its 12-foot height. By comparison, an Axis 24.1 is much shorter and has a longer wheelbase.

Since it doesn’t have a slide, why place toilet on passenger side? Everything else being equal, toilet should be on driver side. It’s interesting that Thor still builds the 28A Class C which has toilet on passenger side, but when built for Cruise America they reversed shower and toilet to place it on driver side (not sure if they still do that modification). I personally like black tank better on driver side because it reduces chances of having difficulties dumping and also reduces issues with freezing. It’s all minor details but they add up.
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