F-150 Lightning tows 10,000 pounds

[Chance]

Ford tested electric F-150 Lightning towing 10,000-pound trailer on world’s toughest towing test — TFLtruck’s Ike Gauntlet™, and also Davis Dam.


https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...00-pounds.html


Representing “real world” towing, confirmed by trailer “weight” and real roads in extreme conditions. However, the two trailers seen in pictures and videos are relatively low profile or narrow, and had frontal area of only 60 square feet per one source. If thinking of towing a camper, most are larger even when lighter.

Not to diminish Ford’s towing accomplishment, but highway aerodynamic drag is what will limit driving range the most, not weight.

By the way, official EPA range for electric F-150 are up to 230 or 320 miles depending on battery size (standard or extended range).


https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ted-range.html

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[Chateau_Nomad]

Agree with accomplishment kudos, but never forget this is a promotional stunt. Everything is tweaked to make the product shine. The smart consumer is an educated, skeptical individual.

Now... have Project Farm real world test it! . We don't know it's capabilities, but "we're gonna test that!".

[DutchmenSport]

Will be tough taking a road trip from California to Maine.... don't you think? If they want to do a true road test, do that! On a real road, under real conditions, and tell us all how long it takes to travel that distance, stopping ever couple hundred miles to "recharge". And advertise how much the "recharge" price is for the total trip!

I bet it fails miserably in the mountains!

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by DutchmenSport

Will be tough taking a road trip from California to Maine.... don't you think? If they want to do a true road test, do that! On a real road, under real conditions, and tell us all how long it takes to travel that distance, stopping ever couple hundred miles to "recharge". And advertise how much the "recharge" price is for the total trip!

I bet it fails miserably in the mountains!

Probably not? Why would it fail miserably in the mountains? The very test that they chose to try in the media stunt above? Not to mention that the truck will charge going down the mountain?

Getting from California to Maine isn't an issue either...

Here is a quick snapshot of the current fast chargers across the country (and ones being built--see the wrenches).


Now charging will add some time as it does take longer than filling with gas... Another issue is that most fast charging stops aren't designed for trucks with a trailer so add the time to unhitch and re-hitch to the cross country drive.

[powerboatr]

30 minutes to get to 80%, then add in another 30 to 60 minutes if you try to get to 100% charge
i was reading the epa test process for EVs.
lets just say.......there is no way in real life the EVs are goign to get close to the epa test


30-60 mph combined with city loop procedure on rollers with stop start and accel to 30 ( i am shortening the test for times)

then they repeat the procedures until the vehicle will no long run, depleted to xx% driven by the vehicle brains. then they recharge to 80% and take that time plus another math entry and get the estimate


no heater or ac usage and its in a climate controlled room at 60 to 65f


climate controls KILL ev range, heat is worse. most are using a heat pump technology to be more efficient.

i want a 150 for use to go to town and run errands . no way will i want to sit for upwards of an hr every 250 miles to recharge

[Bob Denman]

Effortless towing is a given...
But how did those temperatures affect the potential range of the truck?

Don't get me wrong: I'm rooting for them!
The the Tesla CyberTruck is rated for 14,000 lbs. of towing capacity...

[Chance]

My perspective on electric vehicles for towing has been that we need to look at trailer aerodynamic drag a lot closer than weight. It is simply a numbers thing.

Aerodynamic drag is not always as critical with gasoline and diesel trucks because their towing capabilities are often limited mostly by drivetrain power for acceleration and mountain climbing. Obviously it affects fuel economy, but that can be remedied with your wallet at gas station. Electric vehicles on the other hand can easily have way more power than is necessary for acceleration and or climbing mountains while towing, but will run out of driving range too quickly if trailer adds significant drag.

Real World example: A couple of weeks ago my son rented a small single-axle camping trailer weighing just 4,200 pounds. His Hemi Ram pickup, which they use to tow small horse trailer, pulled it easily, but driving 65 MPH into strong headwind on first day only averaged 7 MPG. By comparison, his pickup when empty averages over 22 MPG at same speed.

So I can estimate that power requirements more or less tripled, and range dropped to one third. For reference, smaller but equally heavy horse trailer reduces MPG approximately in half. Obviously strong headwind didn’t help, but that’s also part of “real world”.

Anyway, if F-150 has range of 230 or 320 miles, pulling that same 4,200 pound single-axle camping trailer into strong head wind will likely reduce range to 80 to 110 miles from full to empty.

That’s not going to work for anyone regardless of how close charging stations are located. The only other option is to downsize trailer and or make them vastly more aerodynamic, but if that’s a real-world option, why aren’t buyers doing it already with gas pickups?

[Bob Denman]

But the technology keeps getting better...
Now the power grid needs an upgrade!

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Chance

Ford tested electric F-150 Lightning towing 10,000-pound trailer on world’s toughest towing test — TFLtruck’s Ike Gauntlet™, and also Davis Dam.


https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...00-pounds.html


Representing “real world” towing, confirmed by trailer “weight” and real roads in extreme conditions. However, the two trailers seen in pictures and videos are relatively low profile or narrow, and had frontal area of only 60 square feet per one source. If thinking of towing a camper, most are larger even when lighter.

Not to diminish Ford’s towing accomplishment, but highway aerodynamic drag is what will limit driving range the most, not weight.

By the way, official EPA range for electric F-150 are up to 230 or 320 miles depending on battery size (standard or extended range).


https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ted-range.html

.

Plus...the only scenes were both downhill or on totally flat ground with the wind at their back. No facts of endurance in the marketing video either. Anybody that bought one of those based on that video deserves to find out the "real truth". What an advertisement! Reminds me of the fuel economy statistics they still print on the window sticker. I can tow a 10,000# trailer with my Kubota tractor...but how fast, how far and for how long?

[Travelin' Texans]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Probably not? Why would it fail miserably in the mountains? The very test that they chose to try in the media stunt above? Not to mention that the truck will charge going down the mountain?

Getting from California to Maine isn't an issue either...

Here is a quick snapshot of the current fast chargers across the country (and ones being built--see the wrenches).
Attachment 36572

Now charging will add some time as it does take longer than filling with gas... Another issue is that most fast charging stops aren't designed for trucks with a trailer so add the time to unhitch and re-hitch to the cross country drive.

What's the payload of that 150? Typically a bumper pull trailer has a tongue weight of about 13% of the GVWR, that's about 1300lbs with the tested trailer + a required a WDH at 100lbs. Most 1/2 tons have a payload of 1500+/- lbs, that puts it very near the max payload before loading people & stuff into the truck
From what I've read the majority of those charging sites are for Teslas only, they are not universal one size fits all.
My neighbor with the Mach E Mustang can so far only charge at home with the optional $800 rapid charger connected to 220 volt or some, not all are equipped, Ford dealerships. Possibly at some point they'll make an adapter to be able to charge all EVs at any pedestal.
There may come a day that EVs are all that's available, but I hope it's long after I'm gone as I DO NOT want one til I can drive it as long & as far as my gasser in the same amount of time, currently that's impossible.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Texans

What's the payload of that 150? Typically a bumper pull trailer has a tongue weight of about 13% of the GVWR, that's about 1300lbs with the tested trailer + a required a WDH at 100lbs. Most 1/2 tons have a payload of 1500+/- lbs, that puts it very near the max payload before loading people & stuff into the truck
From what I've read the majority of those charging sites are for Teslas only, they are not universal one size fits all.
My neighbor with the Mach E Mustang can so far only charge at home with the optional $800 rapid charger connected to 220 volt or some, not all are equipped, Ford dealerships. Possibly at some point they'll make an adapter to be able to charge all EVs at any pedestal.
There may come a day that EVs are all that's available, but I hope it's long after I'm gone as I DO NOT want one til I can drive it as long & as far as my gasser in the same amount of time, currently that's impossible.

F-150 Lightning payload 2000 lbs, 1800 lbs with the extended range battery.

I also happen to have a Mach-E and have been using the home chargers I've had since 2013--I didn't have to purchase anything (yeah sure my Mach-E is my 3rd EV and 4th plugin so I was already setup). None of my chargers cost me $800 or even listed at $800.

The map I captured was DCFC stations--NOT Tesla stations. Not one of those icons is a Tesla station. They are universal stations: For all non-Tesla cars.

You don't have to pay $800 for the Ford charger because the car comes with a charger that can plug into 120V or 240V (yes 120V will charge really really really slowly but 240V will charge at a decent rate--enough to get to 100% overnight). The Ford Connected charger will max out the Level-2 rate (48 amps) the one included with the car can charge up to 32 amps. You can take a Mach-E to a campground and charge at 32 amps simply by plugging into the 14-50 plug there.

[lwmcguir]

Whoever comes up with a lighter, cheaper, higher capacity battery and gets the patent will be a wealthy person/company

EV's are currently just not suitable for long road trips but sure would work for town commutes.

I still have my 240v 60-amp charger left over from my Volt. Going to be interesting one day to see if it works on anything. It was programable for fast or overnight.

Our big issue is still the grid and how it is powered and at what cost. 200 years or more of coal in the ground and apparently the goal is to leave it there.

Nothing wrong with exploring and adopting new ways to produce energy but they should not have to be heavily subsidized forever to make them viable.

The next few years ahead of us are going to be quite interesting, given everything currently happening everywhere

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chance

Ford tested electric F-150 Lightning towing 10,000....

I think the Toyota guys once towed the space shuttle with a Tundra...
Pretty sure that was 10K lbs+

My question is:
Can it tow 10000 for more than 500K miles in one day ?

If yes, at what initial cost ?
I used to have a 2018 F150, tow a 9000 camper and did that very same climb several times but that was after 1/5 days towing from Indiana heading to southern Utah (2.5 days towing).
Can this "Lightining" do that w/o extending the already long travel days and at a more affordable overall cost?????

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Probably not? Why would it fail miserably in the mountains? The very test that they chose to try in the media stunt above? Not to mention that the truck will charge going down the mountain?

.....cut.....

When TFLTruck guys tested the Rivian pickup pulling an 8,100-pound trailer on Ike Gauntlet, they were surprised to only recover 2% of battery capacity on descend, and range increased 4 miles.

Going from their office to top of mountain, they averaged 0.55 miles per kWh, which with a 135 kWh battery doesn’t get you very far.

The trailer consisted of an old F-100 Ford pickup on a flatbed, so aerodynamic drag was probably much less than towing a trailer 8-feet wide and over 10-feet tall. With most lighter camping trailers, I expect there would be very little if any downhill regeneration at highway speeds because drag alone will slow it down, though power consumption would be reduced by gravity.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

When TFLTruck guys tested the Rivian pickup pulling an 8,100-pound trailer on Ike Gauntlet, they were surprised to only recover 2% of battery capacity on descend, and range increased 4 miles.

Going from their office to top of mountain, they averaged 0.55 miles per kWh, which with a 135 kWh battery doesn’t get you very far.

The trailer consisted of an old F-100 Ford pickup on a flatbed, so aerodynamic drag was probably much less than towing a trailer 8-feet wide and over 10-feet tall. With most lighter camping trailers, I expect there would be very little if any downhill regeneration at highway speeds because drag alone will slow it down, though power consumption would be reduced by gravity.

Interesting.. In general you don't really get much back from regen in normal driving (you only regen, what, 60-80 ft when coming to a stop). I would have expected more then that.

The times I've driven EVs over mountains and back down I've got more than 2% back (like 80% of what it took to go up comes back). Of course, EV cars are a bit more aerodynamic than a truck + trailer (but the truck + trailer will be heavier too).

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Interesting..

Regen doesn't depend only on your capacity to generate energy but also the battery capacity to absorb that energy when it is available...
If you go up the IKE and at the top the batteries are super hot, the BMS will limit the current to the batteries to avoid damage...
So you have a tremendous POTENTIAL of generating power (going down the mountain) but a very limited capacity to capture that.
0.55miles/Kwh means you need at least a 500Kwh battery in order to have a decent range towing... (not even getting into the "how long it takes to charge" issue).

@ $17K/100Kwh (Tesla battery), that is a $85K battery bank....

In face of that, a F450 Lariat just looks affordable....

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by lwmcguir

Whoever comes up with a lighter, cheaper, higher capacity battery and gets the patent will be a wealthy person/company

EV's are currently just not suitable for long road trips but sure would work for town commutes.

I still have my 240v 60-amp charger left over from my Volt. Going to be interesting one day to see if it works on anything. It was programable for fast or overnight.

Our big issue is still the grid and how it is powered and at what cost. 200 years or more of coal in the ground and apparently the goal is to leave it there.

Nothing wrong with exploring and adopting new ways to produce energy but they should not have to be heavily subsidized forever to make them viable.

The next few years ahead of us are going to be quite interesting, given everything currently happening everywhere

Totally agree! What's the price of being politically acceptable, right? Currently, 67% of all electricity is generate by burning fossil fuel. Granted, those numbers are down from 87% a few years ago...but...as the kids say..."just saying".

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Interesting.. In general you don't really get much back from regen in normal driving (you only regen, what, 60-80 ft when coming to a stop). I would have expected more then that.

The times I've driven EVs over mountains and back down I've got more than 2% back (like 80% of what it took to go up comes back). Of course, EV cars are a bit more aerodynamic than a truck + trailer (but the truck + trailer will be heavier too).

Yeah, but a lot of the success electric cars are seeing is because they have such great aerodynamics, giving them great highway range. The Lucid achieves around 5 miles per kWh, while vans that weigh twice as much consume 4 to 5 times as much battery energy per mile. Normally larger vehicles have less drag per unit weight than smaller vehicles, but when we compare +/- 5,000-pound autos with coefficient of drag of only 0.200 Lucid or 0.208 Tesla S (going from memory) to a trailer shaped almost as bad as a parachute, then horrible highway range should be expected.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

My question is:
Can it tow 10000 for more than 500K miles in one day ?

The Space Shuttle? - Yes
The Tundra? - No

[ducksface]

A 7hp rokon tows 1,500lbs.


The touted davis dam run has to do with radiator puking and not loads(eccept to make the radiator puke).
Double the cooling get 25%higher tow capacity.
And
If the frames are the relatively same, in a f150electric vs a f150 gas, what does that say about the towing limitiations of the gas model? It's a lie? It'll really tow the same 10,000lb? Why not. Logic dictates....
So...the 50,000lb towing to be seen on a f450 electric truck frame means what to our relatively same f450 frame?

It's kinda a gilded version of cow patty this electirc truck.
It's two weeks to get cross country if the timing is off, two weeks if the weather is off, six hours in Winslow followed by 6 hours in Gallup if the three charging spots are full, and it would never make the run from Kingman to flagstaff without at least two+ charges. There are spots on that route this truck couldn't do 80miles of the climb in the snow...or the heat.
(If you've done that run, you know why)


Mythical usefulness in the real suburban/rural world.
Barely believable even with fantasy applied.
Delivery truck? The time management requires two trucks to replace the gas versions with 10minute fillups.

Just a point of view of someone who has No agenda, yet took the time to plan a real trip to a real place without applying perfect timing on the plains of Iowa.

Make it real and I'll Buy one...when they stop burning coal and oil to make the electric.
The
'Not in my backyard'
gang
Is selectively illiterate.

Read what they aren't saying.
The truth is in the spaces between the words.