Why Not to Register Your Motorhome in Pennsylvania

[Chateau_Nomad]

The latest "money grab" in Ohio is a lazy attempt to tax EVs - because they don't pay the highway gasoline tax. So... Ohio just decided that $200 ADDITIONAL on top of the regular fee for annual registration was equitable.

I have no issues paying a fair share to fund highways I actually use. But this way I pay the tax whether I drive 300k miles a year, or let the car sit in the garage!

I guess if enough people piss and moan enough they'll admit a gasoline tax isn't a good way to fund highways. Maybe they'll change registration fees to correspond with a certified mileage.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

The latest "money grab" in Ohio is a lazy attempt to tax EVs - because they don't pay the highway gasoline tax. So... Ohio just decided that $200 ADDITIONAL on top of the regular fee for annual registration was equitable.

I have no issues paying a fair share to fund highways I actually use. But this way I pay the tax whether I drive 300k miles a year, or let the car sit in the garage!

I guess if enough people piss and moan enough they'll admit a gasoline tax isn't a good way to fund highways. Maybe they'll change registration fees to correspond with a certified mileage.

I was in Chicago on business a couple years ago and took an Uber from O'Hare to town. The Uber driver started complaining about Illinois and their money grabs and how he was getting ready to move to Arizona or Texas as a result. He told me that Illinois did something similar with EV's back then.... except they charged an additional $1000 registration fee for an EV because they were not paying the gas tax!

PA has been discussing dropping the gas tax for the past couple years but they have been grappling with replacing it with an annual mileage fee, increased registration fees, etc. and how to make people passing through the state to pay their fair share.

When the PA Turnpike was built they said eventually the tolls would be dropped once the roadway was completed and paid for..... of course that never has happened and it is one of the most expensive toll roads in the country. So much so that many people now bypass the PA Turnpike (I-76) and take I-80 which runs across the state as well. PA has also been throwing around the idea of making that a Toll road as well.

As with most things, the government doesn't think things through and they just ram things through without thinking about the consequences or having a plan. In the case of EV's they haven't figured out:

- How to replace the state and federal fuel tax

- How to upgrade the electrical infrastructure to support the additional loads from EV charging

- How to deal with fighting EV fires


And they make it sound like everyone will save so much money owning an EV by not paying for gas. But they haven't told everyone the costs for replacing the fuel tax, upgrading the electrical infrastructure, the costs some people will have to pay to make changes to their home electrical system, replacing failed batteries and electronics in EV's, etc.

I suspect every Interstate highway in the country will eventually become a toll road with a state and federal component to replace the gas tax and some states will make other high-use highways toll roads as well.

[CHS]

Originally Posted by halfprice

As messed up as CA is with high registration fees for vehicles at least we don't have inspections

I paid $1800 this year for registration on my $240k mh

Jerry

UPDATED:
In Tennessee, I just paid $5.80. They gave a one year waiver on the State fees. This ends June 29th. 2023

Then it will go to:
$16.75 for Class A and
$23.75 for Class B.
And NO INSPECTIONS

[LarryD]

Judge, I've been looking at a spare tire carrier solution for a while now. That roadmaster carrier is $750 now so you really got your moneys worth.

https://www.etrailer.com/Spare-Tire-...RM-195225.html

Have you considered moving the carrier over to one side with one of these?

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-and-Camp...URT/E-100.html

[halfprice]

Originally Posted by CHS

UPDATED:
In Tennessee, I just paid $5.80. They gave a one year waiver on the State fees. This ends June 29th. 2023

Then it will go to:
$16.75 for Class A and
$23.75 for Class B.
And NO INSPECTIONS

I need to move only thing keeping me in CA is the great weather. Even with the record rains we had this year it's still short pants and light jacket

[Elite Washington]

No matter what all the states get you. I have lived in Texas, Arizona and Washington. It’s just what pocket it comes out of. It’s a right pocket left pocket kind of deal. WA and TX with no income tax was nice but they got it from you in different ways. AZ with an income tax you start off behind but you can make it up with lower taxes elsewhere. But in the end you get bent over no matter what.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Elite Washington

No matter what all the states get you. I have lived in Texas, Arizona and Washington. It’s just what pocket it comes out of. It’s a right pocket left pocket kind of deal. WA and TX with no income tax was nice but they got it from you in different ways. AZ with an income tax you start off behind but you can make it up with lower taxes elsewhere. But in the end you get bent over no matter what.

I can't say that about Florida. We have no state income tax, no estate tax and no vehicle inspections. The sales tax is 6.5%. My property value has tripled in 13 years but my property tax have essentially stayed the same.

Now we are getting hit harder on insurance because of the storms. I always thought auto insurance was a lot higher but that's not really the case. People in pay are paying about the same as I am for similar vehicles and coverages.

My auto insurance went up $400 for two vehicles this year but a GMC Sierra we still have registered in PA went up $200. I'll be registering it and the motorhome in Florida when we get back from Alaska after comparing apples-to-apples.

[TRMott]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Ohio??? Are you kidding me? No inspections required, never has been. I've seen pickup trucks around here that have multiple rust through spots, Jeeps with RED accent LED rings around headlights, bald tires - and COMPLETELY missing exhaust systems (that is VERY common). Basically if it rolls, it's street legal in Ohio! Feel free to drive pretty much as fast as you'd like... there's little speed enforcement, especially around metro areas.

Now... cross the border into West Virginia. You pay annual property tax on all vehicles. Annual inspections are required... and they'll ding you for any rust that is "structurally deficient". And your entire exhaust system better be in excellent condition. AND don't get caught NOT using hands-free with your phone... they DO enforce it!!

One would think it would be the exact opposite... and West Virginia is a MUCH deeper shade of Red than Ohio. Money grabbing at the state level is color blind. Ohio has been a Red state forever. I bailed out of WV over 40 years ago. I only go back for the excellent scenery and camping - that's ONE thing they get right!

I'm glad to read that, but Ohio CAN be tough. My daugher's best friend had just moved to OHIO, from Arizona. Two days there and they pulled her over, told her they smelled pot and were "positive" that she had firearms with no license for them. She asked them to bring a drug dog as she had nothing in there. While she sat in the patrol car they tore her new car apart on the side of the highway! Poor girl, 21 yrs old, was terrified! Of course she didn't have any of what they were looking for...just left her with a car to put back together! She came back to AZ, and now has gone back to OH... has been there 3 years now but is still terrified of the law enforcement! Her friend told her it was because she had Arizona plates! I sure hope they've changed, for the better, in 3 years.

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by Judge

So this is a rant..... but also a warning to anyone who has their motorhomes registered in Pennsylvania or anyone who will be passing through Pennsylvania with a spare tire carrier, bike rack, etc. that may be partially obstructing the view of your license plate.

I bought a place in Florida in 2010 and was happy to become a Florida resident as quick as I could given that I didn't like the direction PA was heading in general. I kept some property in PA because we still have family there and I have kept my motorhomes there since I had a place to store them inside. But unlike Florida, PA requires annual vehicle safety inspections. This year PA has new laws that are over the top for vehicles.

I dropped the coach off at the Ford Commercial Truck Center where I get my service done to have it inspected and to make sure the tires and brakes would be good for another 15,000 miles for our trip to Alaska.

About two hours later I get a call that they cannot inspect the coach because it has a spare tire carrier and spare tire that partially obstructs the license plate. It can be seen perfectly from the sides but it is slightly blocked head-on from the rear.

The Service Manager also proceeds to tell me the plate cannot be relocated with a bracket and moved from its factory location!

I tell the Service Manager that they inspected it that past three years with the spare tire carrier installed. He said the state of PA has tightened their laws and regulations so it has to come off.

And if that is not enough, the state of PA makes it illegal to now have any type of border around the license plate that covers any part of it.... even if the license plate is fully readable. No dealer vanity license plate borders, sports team borders, etc.

So now I'm pissed and jump in the truck to go up to the Ford Dealer to remove the 110lb spare tire and Roadmaster tire carrier so they will inspect the damn coach.

The good news is the Roadmaster Spare Tire Carrier was worth the $500 I paid for it!!!

I was able to lower the tire... remove it from the carrier..... roll the tire over to the truck.... remove the spare tire carrier..... install the spare carrier on the truck..... roll the tire back to the carrier.... bolt it on.... and put it back in place in 20 minutes.... without ever having to lift the tire!!! If you were on the fence about the cost of the Roadmaster Spare Tire Carrier, it is worth the money if you have a spare tire larger than 16".

Then 90 minutes later the Ford Dealer calls to tell me the coach passed inspection and I'm good for our trip to Alaska.

But now I have to take the spare tire carrier off the truck and put it back on the coach!!!!


It gets even better..... the Service Manager tells me that next year it is very likely my coach won't pass inspection because of the heavy duty bumper I installed. He said the state is cracking down on big vehicles and any modifications to them.

I told him I'm not worried... after this little episode the coach will be registered in Florida next year. All of my other vehicles, trailers, etc are registered in Florida and this is the last one registered in PA. He said a lot of people are doing the same thing where they can register in another state because it is getting so out of hand.

So if you are registered in PA.... be advised you may have an issue getting your inspection with a spare tire carrier, bike rack, etc. if it is on the hitch and block the plate in anyway. And if you have a vanity border around your plate, it could give the police a valid reason to pull you over if you get someone who just likes to be a stickler for the letter of the law or just looking for a valid reason to stop you.

The funny thing is I always thought it was stupid of Thor to put the license plate mount dead center on the rear of the coach when almost everyone will have something hanging off the hitch obstructing the view of the plate. They would have been better off putting it far left... that's the way it is on my Jeep.

Thanks. Grew up in Pa and escaped long ago. Live in a non inspection state with mountains out west.

[dkoldman]

Can I try a different view to shake things up.

Inspections when done properly are actually a good thing to have and require once a year. But they should not cost a arm and a leg. They should NOT stop or hold up a Registration, but some grace period to fix. Maybe if not fixed by next registration it stops the renewal, or if you are otherwise pulled over by the Fuzz and grace period has expired you can be cited, but NOT taken to jail.

True story about 2 months ago.

In Houston, I had a blowout on Gulf Freeway. I had RV towed to a Cabelas where it was safe (pissing Progressive off), but they did it. Anyway after all day and all night they finally get a guy out to put my brand new spare tire on at 1:00 AM in the morning!!! The guy completed the job in about 30 minutes and left. We left 15 min later and when I got on the freeway, I saw where the guy and his truck was pulled over on a side street by 3 Police Cars in that local city ( I don't recall name right now). Judging from the guys truck ( I like what I did there ) he didn't seem as if he was making a lot of money; prolly independent one man operation. But I was headed back to Dallas; had work at 8:00 AM; so we didn't bother to stop. The next morning I text the guy thanking him because we made it safely. He proceeded to tell me the next day he was glad things went well for us, because he spent the night and the next day in jail He said he did not have the registration in the truck; so they booked him and put him in jail. I was like wow? I am sure the officers felt that at 1:30am they could find something and they were right. 2 of the Police Cars were on the Cabela lot so they saw us and could tell we were there for a long time. But they also saw our flat tire, and never said anything to us. I suspect they watched the guy drive up and fix our flat and followed him.

I will add a few weeks ago my daughter received a pass on her inspection, but they said her tires were borderline. I took a look at them the next day, and took the car to Discount Tire to get them replaced. Without the inspection when would still be driving those tires. Everybody don't see or care about cars in the same way, it helps to have some discipline.

[halfprice]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Can I try a different view to shake things up.

Inspections when done properly are actually a good thing to have and require once a year. But they should not cost a arm and a leg. They should NOT stop or hold up a Registration, but some grace period to fix. Maybe if not fixed by next registration it stops the renewal, or if you are otherwise pulled over by the Fuzz and grace period has expired you can be cited, but NOT taken to jail.

True story about 2 months ago.

In Houston, I had a blowout on Gulf Freeway. I had RV towed to a Cabelas where it was safe (pissing Progressive off), but they did it. Anyway after all day and all night they finally get a guy out to put my brand new spare tire on at 1:00 AM in the morning!!! The guy completed the job in about 30 minutes and left. We left 15 min later and when I got on the freeway, I saw where the guy and his truck was pulled over on a side street by 3 Police Cars in that local city ( I don't recall name right now). Judging from the guys truck ( I like what I did there ) he didn't seem as if he was making a lot of money; prolly independent one man operation. But I was headed back to Dallas; had work at 8:00 AM; so we didn't bother to stop. The next morning I text the guy thanking him because we made it safely. He proceeded to tell me the next day he was glad things went well for us, because he spent the night and the next day in jail He said he did not have the registration in the truck; so they booked him and put him in jail. I was like wow? I am sure the officers felt that at 1:30am they could find something and they were right. 2 of the Police Cars were on the Cabela lot so they saw us and could tell we were there for a long time. But they also saw our flat tire, and never said anything to us. I suspect they watched the guy drive up and fix our flat and followed him.

I will add a few weeks ago my daughter received a pass on her inspection, but they said her tires were borderline. I took a look at them the next day, and took the car to Discount Tire to get them replaced. Without the inspection when would still be driving those tires. Everybody don't see or care about cars in the same way, it helps to have some discipline.

Well your tire guy left a lot out of the story. You don't go to jail for not having registration. Most likely he had a warrant

Jerry

[ducksface]

They'll tow you for no registration if you're mouthy, but yeh, there's a warrant involved or controlled substance found.
If he nighted in jail, and didn't mention a tow, the cop did him a big favor.



Aside:
Jerry,
My L.A. detective friend who retired to Tennessee has had THIRTY TWO family members and in-laws follow.
Tennessee is indeed the answer. Whether or not you can stand the chiggers and ticks is the question.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by halfprice

Well your tire guy left a lot out of the story. You don't go to jail for not having registration. Most likely he had a warrant

Jerry

Of course I would never know, but I believe him. He had no reason to tell me the story otherwise? He didn't know I saw him passing by on the overpass. He volunteered to share his pain.

In Texas anybody can be lawfully detained and held for up to 24 hours for any reason that a Law Enforcement officer may deem necessary. Lack of registration or Insurance can indicate potential theft to the officer that may be suspicious. I have seen people detained / arrested for a lot less (i.e blown out bulbs, or the way the driver may have responded with the first question etc). During the detainment they may find other things from parking violations to outstanding warrants. The vast majority are let go.

My point is this person clearly did not have registration and they should have. A lot of folks myself included are very responsible to ensure registration and insurance is always in my vehicles. The yearly requirement in Texas to have the same for the required Inspections & Registrations helps millions in this regard. If you live in a State where you are not required to have proof of registration / Insurance, be careful driving through Texas.

[ducksface]

Same rules almost any state. Varies by institutional/responding authority prerogative.
Just
Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood
(Look it up)

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

They'll tow you for no registration if you're mouthy, but yeh, there's a warrant involved or controlled substance found.
If he nighted in jail, and didn't mention a tow, the cop did him a big fafor.

He didn't seem like the type that would be mouthy or looking for trouble. I am going by 30 minutes of work ethic. I actually helped him with a large crowbar trying to mount the tire on the wheel. He did not have a RV valve stem, but manage to get a steel truck valve on the wheel that barely made it through my hub caps.

But it is possible there is more, the below is the exact and only text I got from him; the day after.

"It did go wrong for me yesterday making the return down the freway and the police stopped me and there was no insurance on the truck and they put me in jail right now around 11 o"clock I got out of jail

So it was for no insurance.

Just saying it can be worse then PA, and while I grow weary of Inspections every year for every vehicle, everything that they have caught I may not otherwise have known. That toot of the horn and it didn't work, out of no less than 5 copies of insurance over 6 month periods, not one for the current period, to tires that are not safe to be on the road any more.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ducksface

Same rules almost any state. Varies by institutional/responding authority prerogative.
Just
Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood
(Look it up)

Agreed on rules apply to almost any state, thus making counterpoint for sake of discussion how Inspections can actually help millions of Americans from something that we otherwise take for granted.

I checked and we were in League City, Texas at Cabelas off Gulf Freeway. That is an upscale city. May be why that Tire Worker and his older Tire Truck & Compressor stood out, at 1:30AM Officer need something to do, so they watched him and when he got on the move; they stopped him and sure enough he had broken the law by not having insurance. That is minimally enough to be detained.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Agreed on rules apply to almost any state, thus making counterpoint for sake of discussion how Inspections can actually help millions of Americans from something that we otherwise take for granted.

Looks like I am gonna have to eat some crow on the Inspections. Turns out the State of Texas is actually trying to eliminate the Inspections. Here I was trying to defend the State's current laws, Oh well.

If it passes, and I sure it will base on trends of new legislation. The State is basically saying we don't really care if you actually pass inspection or not because some of it fraud anyway. As long as you pay for it everything will be good.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/investigation...emain/3261321/

But like every other sheeple, when / if this becomes law, I will just get in line & pay up. I do follow the laws and try to support them. So soon I will have to eat crow and flip flop my position to who needs Inspections