Winnebago Acquiring Lithionics

[Chance]

Originally Posted by atreis

You'd still need/want propane for the furnace, so why not heat water with propane too? Just having trouble seeing that one happening on most units... 12V fridge is already happening, and electric induction cooktops could actually be nice with an inverter.

P.S. — The Airstream Rangeline Class B uses gasoline for hydronic heat and water according to their specs. They also include a 2800 Onan inverter generator.
.

[atreis]

Originally Posted by Chance

P.S. — The Airstream Rangeline Class B uses gasoline for hydronic heat and water according to their specs. They also include a 2800 Onan inverter generator.
.

That's fine, but the post immediately above mine is talking about heating water with 12V electric, not diesel or gas. If you have a hydronic system, then you don't need to heat water with 12V. If you don't, then you'd need a propane system for space heating, so still wouldn't need to heat water with 12V. I just don't get the point of heating water with 12V.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by atreis

That's fine, but the post immediately above mine is talking about heating water with 12V electric, not diesel or gas. If you have a hydronic system, then you don't need to heat water with 12V. If you don't, then you'd need a propane system for space heating, so still wouldn't need to heat water with 12V. I just don't get the point of heating water with 12V.

Kinda makes you wonder if that Forest River Rep was brand new and talking out his butt.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by atreis

That's fine, but the post immediately above mine is talking about heating water with 12V electric, not diesel or gas. If you have a hydronic system, then you don't need to heat water with 12V. If you don't, then you'd need a propane system for space heating, so still wouldn't need to heat water with 12V. I just don't get the point of heating water with 12V.

Sorry for confusion. My reference to 12 VDC water heater was for 100% electric DIY camping trailer conversion (custom-built living quarters in horse trailer) that uses no fuel at all. Water is heated with 12 VDC, and space heat provided with 120 VAC by using a 2,000-Watt inverter/charger and portable 1,000-Watt space heater, normally run on low which is closer to 500 Watts.

When shore power is available (not usual), it can power 1,000-Watt space heater directly, and charge 12 VDC batteries which then power water heater. Mostly, power is from two large solar panels and two large batteries.

The unit I was referring to has no propane, or furnace, or hydronic water/space heat. It’s very simple but gets job done well in mild weather.

To be clear, I have seen 12 VDC water heaters on do-it-yourself campers, but not on manufactured mass-produced RVs. A few are 100% electric, while most of these rely on a gasoline-fueled space heater (not hydronic).

Again, sorry for confusion. Just saying 12 VDC water heater can have application depending on how camper will be used.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Chance

Yes, plus acquisition is not completely unexpected since Winnebago started using Lithionics batteries in their EKKO which so far appears a home run for them.

I did not know that their EKKO was successful. When we were looking for a new B+/C 2 years ago I wanted to consider the EKKO as it had almost everything I thought we needed, but they never actually marketed the larger version and DW wanted a real bathroom, so we looked elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Chance

The combination of having a small generator to charge batteries and power A/C for long periods, plus lithium batteries for everything else, makes sense and appears where Winnebago is headed.

We ended up adding 300 AH of BB Lithium batteries and I had both the microwave and the 3 way fridge hooked up to the inverter output. We now almost never use our generator and on our last trip I had to start it and run it while we were on the road just to exercise it since it had not been used for months.

I don't normally run the fridge off of the inverter but thought it was a good idea just in case the propane functionality stopped working (as it did about 4 months ago) so we could run the fridge on AC while on the road. We run the microwave on the inverter all the time now.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I did not know that their EKKO was successful. When we were looking for a new B+/C 2 years ago I wanted to consider the EKKO as it had almost everything I thought we needed, but they never actually marketed the larger version and DW wanted a real bathroom, so we looked elsewhere.



We ended up adding 300 AH of BB Lithium batteries and I had both the microwave and the 3 way fridge hooked up to the inverter output. We now almost never use our generator and on our last trip I had to start it and run it while we were on the road just to exercise it since it had not been used for months.

I don't normally run the fridge off of the inverter but thought it was a good idea just in case the propane functionality stopped working (as it did about 4 months ago) so we could run the fridge on AC while on the road. We run the microwave on the inverter all the time now.

Yeah, the longer EKKO, which also had a slide, never made it to market as far as I know. I recall reading the weight was too high to provide adequate OCCC given it was built on Transit chassis. I liked the floor plan‘s bathroom and bedroom arrangement, but front living area and kitchen I don’t care for. I think Winnebago can do better than that.

Your electrical system sounds well planned. When many RVs have a generator as backup, then 300~400 Ah of lithium should be plenty most of the time.

[ProsperTrail]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I think giving the topic the durability of Lithium electronics could be fair game. It the future WBGO is banking on and the analogy with lawn is clear assessment of same today.

My lawn is 7,500 sq feet, it has 3 tiers and it is on a hill with fairly good climb. I have always have used self propelled to pull.

I have had 3 Honda Lawnmowers and swear by them but like a Lead Acid battery in RV they are HEAVY. My Honda also had a lithium battery that must be maintain for electric start.

I bought a Ryobi 40 V Lithium equipment one day only because I read the Dallas City Council was considering a ban on motorized power lawn equipment. I don't live in Dallas but close enough and one day I saw a Ryobi Blower and Edger on incredible sale at the Orange Store. I gave it a shot. Used about a year never went back to motorized equipment. Sold what I could keeping the Ryobi.

Then I decided to try a electric mower, a bigger gamble. My Ryobi 40v mower will hold two batteries (only use one at a time). I never need more than one battery. I can mow, edge, trim and blow on one 40v 6 amp battery. I kept my Honda for a year and sold it later.

The Ryobi mower has had issues though. I had to return to HD twice and each time they gave me a new unit. It would stop self propelling. Two months ago it stop self propelling again and I had to take to Ryobi Dealer who said they could not get parts and Ryobi authorized a replacement. Two weeks later I had heard nothing so Dealer gave me a ticket number to call Ryobi directly. I asked Ryobi if I had to pay someone to mow my lawn because they were saying it could take 4 - 6 weeks They said the would escalate ( yeah right ) The next day, the local dealer said my new lawnmower was in.... wtf I go get it and it is brand new that works like a champ again. They must have overnighted it or had it processed from a local distribution center?

I have metal blade and it cuts really well. If you try to go too fast it will automatically apply more power to the blade and drain battery faster, you can hear it.

Despite the issues, I am never going back because it is incredibly light. I can easily pick up to move to different level whereas I would even thing about it with the Honda.

If you looking at a John Deere it is likely equipped to mow at least 1 acre on single charge. I can tell you this, most all the reviews I read Ryobi batteries were wrong, i.e. people would say in 20 minutes it was dead? Kind of depends on what you doing. I get 6 AH every time and I generally finished after about 1 1/2 hrs. 30 mins for stopping and doing whatever.

Note: I have 2 6AHs, and 1 4AH batteries, they all fit into all of the equipment. I normally use the 4AH for the blower as it is lighter, one 6AH is for the edger & trimmer and I keep a 6AH in the mower so I am always good with plenty of power.

RYOBI recently announced brand new 80V ridding mowers, those should be able to handle your 2 acres mowing task.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by ProsperTrail

RYOBI recently announced brand new 80V ridding mowers, those should be able to handle your 2 acres mowing task.

I have seen those. Any Riding Lawnmower is overkill for my lawn, I have three levels and a lot of things to mow around not to mentioned fenced in back yard with pool. It would be more work. I think it is the Lieutenant that has 2 acres and was pondering switching out his John Deere. He was more concern on reliability of the technology. I have to return my Ryobi mower 4 times now, in about 14 months. All for same reason, self propelled stopped working. Maybe my yard is too tough on having to turn self propelled on/off so many times?

FWIW, my Ryobi although 40V, seats two 6AH each 40V units. I use about 3 1/2 to 4 AHs to mow the lawn. If I run out, it was because I did not start with a full charge. I may start putting two in for just in case; to save me a trip back to the shed.

Back to the Lithium batteries themselves, my 4AH Ryobi Battery that came with Edger & Blower went out last weekend. I used it down to zero, but it would not recharge. It was about 2 years old. Assuming it was out of warranty I tried several You Tube fixes and none worked for me. I was really worried because I have 3 of the 6AHs batteries and they would cost about $150 each to replace. So I call Ryobi and turns out my 4AH battery was under warranty, something about being sold with a bundle and 3 years. They sent me a new one saying it would be 2 - 4 weeks and we got it in 4 days

[Chance]

The deal is complete — Winnebago now owns Lithionics.

https://rvbusiness.com/winnebago-com...onics-battery/


The real question from my perspective is how this acquisition will affect cost of typical RV lithium-battery options in near future. To this point the price premium has been ridiculously high, and hard to justify. When I see vans with a lithium option costing over $20,000 more at MSRP, and that’s after eliminating Onan generator, I see greed, stupidity, and or lack of competition. Probably a little of each.

I really hope this acquisition will be the start of process that makes these systems more affordable, better integrated, more reliable, and easier to use for average non-technical RVers.

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Chance

The deal is complete — Winnebago now owns Lithionics.

https://rvbusiness.com/winnebago-com...onics-battery/


The real question from my perspective is how this acquisition will affect cost of typical RV lithium-battery options in near future. To this point the price premium has been ridiculously high, and hard to justify. When I see vans with a lithium option costing over $20,000 more at MSRP, and that’s after eliminating Onan generator, I see greed, stupidity, and or lack of competition. Probably a little of each.

I really hope this acquisition will be the start of process that makes these systems more affordable, better integrated, more reliable, and easier to use for average non-technical RVers.

No never nada.
This is America 🇺🇸
Every penny counts.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Scubawise

No never nada.
This is America 🇺🇸
Every penny counts.

As long as we keep bureaucrats out of decision-making, free markets will lead to competition, which usually means better products and greater value for buyers. Winnebago wants to sell more RVs, buyers want more lithium but can’t or won’t pay present price premium, so whichever RV manufacturer can offer improved/better/upgraded product at reasonable price will have greatest success.

I expect Thor may acquire their own lithium battery supplier before long.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I think giving the topic the durability of Lithium electronics could be fair game. It the future WBGO is banking on and the analogy with lawn is clear assessment of same today.

My lawn is 7,500 sq feet, it has 3 tiers and it is on a hill with fairly good climb. I have always have used self propelled to pull.

I have had 3 Honda Lawnmowers and swear by them but like a Lead Acid battery in RV they are HEAVY. My Honda also had a lithium battery that must be maintain for electric start.

I bought a Ryobi 40 V Lithium equipment one day only because I read the Dallas City Council was considering a ban on motorized power lawn equipment. I don't live in Dallas but close enough and one day I saw a Ryobi Blower and Edger on incredible sale at the Orange Store. I gave it a shot. Used about a year never went back to motorized equipment. Sold what I could keeping the Ryobi.

Then I decided to try a electric mower, a bigger gamble. My Ryobi 40v mower will hold two batteries (only use one at a time). I never need more than one battery. I can mow, edge, trim and blow on one 40v 6 amp battery. I kept my Honda for a year and sold it later.

The Ryobi mower has had issues though. I had to return to HD twice and each time they gave me a new unit. It would stop self propelling. Two months ago it stop self propelling again and I had to take to Ryobi Dealer who said they could not get parts and Ryobi authorized a replacement. Two weeks later I had heard nothing so Dealer gave me a ticket number to call Ryobi directly. I asked Ryobi if I had to pay someone to mow my lawn because they were saying it could take 4 - 6 weeks They said the would escalate ( yeah right ) The next day, the local dealer said my new lawnmower was in.... wtf I go get it and it is brand new that works like a champ again. They must have overnighted it or had it processed from a local distribution center?

I have metal blade and it cuts really well. If you try to go too fast it will automatically apply more power to the blade and drain battery faster, you can hear it.

Despite the issues, I am never going back because it is incredibly light. I can easily pick up to move to different level whereas I would even thing about it with the Honda.

If you looking at a John Deere it is likely equipped to mow at least 1 acre on single charge. I can tell you this, most all the reviews I read Ryobi batteries were wrong, i.e. people would say in 20 minutes it was dead? Kind of depends on what you doing. I get 6 AH every time and I generally finished after about 1 1/2 hrs. 30 mins for stopping and doing whatever.

Note: I have 2 6AHs, and 1 4AH batteries, they all fit into all of the equipment. I normally use the 4AH for the blower as it is lighter, one 6AH is for the edger & trimmer and I keep a 6AH in the mower so I am always good with plenty of power.

A sister-in-law invested in the Ryobi mower with 3 batteries. In the process, I negotiated a "free" Honda push mower from her! The wife mows our 1/2 acre + with a tractor, the push mower is for fence line, around trees, etc. She's a pro... knocks out the entire yard in less than 1/2 hour.

We've had to "loan" the Honda mower back to her twice... the Ryobi mower evidently has a habit of internal loose wires... fixed under warranty. The last loan session also netted a free gallon of gas!

Other than that - she claims she's very happy. I saw a smallish electric zero turn at the Blue store recently. I forget the brand... but it had maybe 6 slots for batteries!