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Old 01-13-2022, 02:18 PM   #21
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I think it's important to get Covid information (just like anything labeled "news") from a broad variety of sources. It's not so much the politics as it is the underlying agenda; so I follow the "money trail" in trying to decide if information/news is valid concerning public health which affects us all. This is NOT being "political" - quite the opposite, it's getting to the truth. It just so happens that the ones obfuscating the truth are using politicians to further their agenda. That underlying agenda is NOT politically driven; it's MONEY driven. I compare a lot of what's called "news" today as one big infomercial disguised as news. It's VERY important to understand that distinction, and WHY it's being done.

I grew up with a questioning mindset - I always want to know WHY... which drives people who mindlessly follow orders crazy... sometimes that includes my wife . I call this "critical thinking", which is absolutely necessary for society to survive. For matters as important as public health, which directly impacts personal health - including potential death - I absolutely want to know the "WHY".

I have had two open heart surgeries (valve replacement) and two bouts of melanoma. I consider myself in excellent health for my age. I thoroughly quiz my cardiologist at every checkup about his findings from ECGs and measurements. Any medication changes I want to know the WHAT and WHY, including any side effects, etc. If he DIDN'T satisfy my curiosity, I'd be getting another cardiologist who WOULD answer all my questions in minute detail.

When I see the "daily numbers" posted on broadcast media, I consider the above. Am I getting ALL the important information I need? If I question what I'm hearing and seeing, am I labeled a "non conformist" or even worse?

Both my wife & I have been vaccinated/boostered. We also continue to sift through all the conflicting information regarding variants, spread, testing, vaccine efficacy on variants, masks etc. INCLUDING the morbidity of those variants.

Just as with anything that poses risk to health/life, one can only make sound decisions AFTER all the relevant and accurate information is known. Often you have to go around barriers to find that information.

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Old 01-13-2022, 02:22 PM   #22
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Iím scheduled to get the J&J shot today even though I have acquired natural immunity from previously contracting the Alpha variant in Feb 2021.

So then why get the experimental shot now, you ask?

- isnít the pandemic over/coming to a close?
- donít the vaccines have 0% efficacy of preventing/reducing risk of contracting ďthe CronĒ?

With business, specifically trade shows, now coming back to life and being scheduled throughout 2022Önearly all events on the books for March thru October require:
- proof of vaccine
or
- a daily negative test

Have you seen the test lines lately?

So Iím giving-in even though my family is trying to stop me.

Iím a 67 yr old male with heart disease.
Iím praying to God that the side effects will only be temporary.
I relented, much against my better judgement, and got the J&J last summer. Figured if I was going to poison myself it would be with the least amount. I had cardiac issues and I don't have a cardiac issue history. Those issues lasted a few weeks and I think have returned last week. Same crap as last summer. Unfortunately no do-overs and no way to get the poisonous substances out of me.

Reminds me of an old Dusty Springfield song lyrics. "Wishin and hopin and thinkin and prayin plannin and dreamin" is a poor strategy and full of potential problems.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:01 PM   #23
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I relented, much against my better judgement, and got the J&J last summer. Figured if I was going to poison myself it would be with the least amount. I had cardiac issues and I don't have a cardiac issue history. Those issues lasted a few weeks and I think have returned last week. Same crap as last summer. Unfortunately no do-overs and no way to get the poisonous substances out of me.

Reminds me of an old Dusty Springfield song lyrics. "Wishin and hopin and thinkin and prayin plannin and dreamin" is a poor strategy and full of potential problems.
A couple of decades ago I thought I was having cardiac issues (runs in my family)
Got me a heart DR, he said your heart is good, BUT you have major anxiety, here take 2 of these every day + as needed WOW what a relief!

What did your heart DR say?
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:21 PM   #24
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Both my family Dr and my Cardiologist recommended the vaccine and the booster. If the vaccines contained poisons, I highly doubt both of the medical professionals I trust would have told me to get the vaccines.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:30 PM   #25
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Both my family Dr and my Cardiologist recommended the vaccine and the booster. If the vaccines contained poisons, I highly doubt both of the medical professionals I trust would have told me to get the vaccines.
+ 1 really should be + 6, from most if not all the DRs we see
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:58 PM   #26
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A couple of decades ago I thought I was having cardiac issues (runs in my family)
Got me a heart DR, he said your heart is good, BUT you have major anxiety, here take 2 of these every day + as needed WOW what a relief!

What did your heart DR say?
My cardiologist said that the vaccination likely caused the heart skipping/irregularity I was having/had. The cardiac symptoms began a week or 2 after the injection as I recall and lasted a couple weeks or so. He said that those symptoms were symptomatic of a virus infection and reaction. I described is as a skip but that's not medically accurate. I'd feel a heavy beat, weakness and fatigue. If I felt my pulse it would feel like the heart was skipping a beat periodically. A few good beats then skip and repeat. I also felt like poop for several days after it. At any rate I've done my part to protect the helpless snowflakes in the world.
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:10 PM   #27
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Both my family Dr and my Cardiologist recommended the vaccine and the booster. If the vaccines contained poisons, I highly doubt both of the medical professionals I trust would have told me to get the vaccines.
Cardiologist was neutral about the vaccine but his PA was opposed but did get it to avoid being fired. Heavy handed hospital responses. Family didn't though and she would resist a booster. Many medical professionals question the effectiveness of them but most are quiet out of fear of the "system".

EDIT adding; actually medicines in general are poisons that target something bad in the body. Penicillin is good unless you are a bacteria then it's poison to you. Really read the side effects of meds. Scary stuff. I believe that if every person was required to read all the known and suspected side effects of the vaccine, participation would be somewhat lower.
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:42 AM   #28
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Our retired morning coffee group have been wondering what's different about this vaccine?

Examples:

Polio we all ate the sugar cube, except for a cousin and a friends wife, trust me you DO NOT want "Post Polio Syndrome"
No vaccine for chickenpox for us 70,80 yr olds, trust us you DO NOT want shingles
Mumps, wonder if there is a "Post Mumps Syndrome"?
Measles, aha that must be another one of "those" vaccines it's making a comeback, lots of very sick babies

Your thoughts

FYI: we've had an event, coffee drinkers wife.
He's been vaccinated and took a cruise to Roatan to visit his son.
While he was gone his wife got Delta, this was in late November, a couple of weeks ago she received Remdesivir, she's doing better. She says shes having to reconsider the vaccine, she'll get it in a few months after her natural immunity wears off.
He's very relieved
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:54 AM   #29
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Coffee good, coffee bad. eggs bad, eggs good. Wine bad, wine good.
Go ahead, THEY won't reverse their opinion.

I trust them to be infallible, have no monetary gains planned and have every reason to tell us all facts without hesitation no matter what. They'll fight to make it clear and concise and of great merit.
Just as they always have.
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:24 PM   #30
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Well on a positive side the Covid almost eradicated the Flu

Actual death from Covid is way down on the cause statistics when you filter the data

My family is very large with several in the 90's, several hundred cousins

Many have had Covid but mostly the young adults

More RSV than Covid percent wise

Less than 50% Vax and no deaths

As a group no missed get togethers or camping trips since the Flu virtually dissappeard

The mind game is proving to be far worse than Covid
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:12 PM   #31
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Well on a positive side the Covid almost eradicated the Flu

Actual death from Covid is way down on the cause statistics when you filter the data

My family is very large with several in the 90's, several hundred cousins

Many have had Covid but mostly the young adults

More RSV than Covid percent wise

Less than 50% Vax and no deaths

As a group no missed get togethers or camping trips since the Flu virtually dissappeard

The mind game is proving to be far worse than Covid
Nope. Flu is alive and kicking up a storm. The majority of Urgent Care patients around here are flu related. The UC centers are testing for COVID and Flu A and B at the same time.

In my case itís Bronchitis
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:50 PM   #32
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My cardiologist said that the vaccination likely caused the heart skipping/irregularity I was having/had. The cardiac symptoms began a week or 2 after the injection as I recall and lasted a couple weeks or so. He said that those symptoms were symptomatic of a virus infection and reaction. I described is as a skip but that's not medically accurate. I'd feel a heavy beat, weakness and fatigue. If I felt my pulse it would feel like the heart was skipping a beat periodically. A few good beats then skip and repeat. I also felt like poop for several days after it. At any rate I've done my part to protect the helpless snowflakes in the world.
You getting a Covid vaccine (of any flavor) does absolutely NOTHING to "protect the helpless snowflakes in the world". Where did you get THAT from? The vaccine you take is to protect YOU, and YOU ALONE. The "snowflakes" must get their OWN dose if they desire some degree of immunity/protection.

There is no conclusive proof either way if those vaccinated will still spread (or not spread) the virus to others (shedding). Mutations of Covid are another story - significant mutation might create a strain which is resistant to current vaccines. Obviously, contracting a resistant (to the current vaccines) version could be spread, but ALSO would likely show symptoms in the host. I'd like to see that information made more prevalent as facts - NOT hysteria.

There is just not enough hard data (but plenty of hyperbole) about this. How many "mutant strains" are currently in circulation... and TRUTHFULLY what are the health consequences - to both "healthy" people and "health compromised"? How effective is the CURRENT vaccine against the KNOWN mutations? Again - these FACTS should be readily available to ALL.

Knowing how the annual flu virus seemingly changes every season, wouldn't it seem reasonable that (at some point) the current flavor of Covid vaccines would need to be "re-engineered" for them to be effective?

IMO, accurate information does FAR more public good than simply withholding "scary" facts. We've seen the results of "selective release" of information about Covid - rumors and speculative hysteria. The information is out there - it's just not as readily available as I would hope - sometimes like pulling teeth!

Considering Covid has been classed as a pandemic that has such overall public health consequences, wouldn't it seem logical that COMPLETE and ACCURATE information is READILY available? I constantly hear "Just get the vaccine (which my family and I did!)" - but THEN what? Can I STILL spread COVID? How is that so? I'm NOT disputing medical evidence - just requesting facts! In order for me to "do my part", I NEED up to date accurate information, not generalities.

When it comes down to it, your health is ALL IMPORTANT - and you have loved ones depending on you.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:52 PM   #33
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Nope. Flu is alive and kicking up a storm. The majority of Urgent Care patients around here are flu related. The UC centers are testing for COVID and Flu A and B at the same time.

In my case itís Bronchitis
Yep last year you didn't hear about the flu because the flu didn't have an advocacy group trying to push drugs. A comment above was "follow the money", so true. One of the largest lobbying group, maybe largest is pharmaceuticals. Probably every national level politician gets contributions from big Pharma and with that comes "expectations of performance". If you don't think big Pharma is in all we do, watch TV commercials. I try not to but they are there. With the government being complicit with big Pharma and pushing the covid vaccine, big Pharma saw the opportunity to ramp up the push for other vaccines and meds. Result we are flooded now with "information/misinformation".

Flu was old hat and the new kid with the advocacy, covid, got the attention and the credit for the hospitalizations and deaths. Statistics lie and liars use statistics.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:07 PM   #34
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Our daughter, fully vaccinated, now has COVID for the second time since getting vaccinated. Her son cannot go back to school for 3 weeks.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:08 PM   #35
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You getting a Covid vaccine (of any flavor) does absolutely NOTHING to "protect the helpless snowflakes in the world". Where did you get THAT from? The vaccine you take is to protect YOU, and YOU ALONE. The "snowflakes" must get their OWN dose if they desire some degree of immunity/protection.

There is no conclusive proof either way if those vaccinated will still spread (or not spread) the virus to others (shedding). Mutations of Covid are another story - significant mutation might create a strain which is resistant to current v
Well what happened to the "my body, my choice" or the government has no right to make health choices or demands on my body. If it's to protect me, let me, not some agency, make the decision to have a procedure, get a medicine, or engage in a life style. But it's not in reality about that, it's about compliance. Herd immunity by getting the herd of lemmings to jump off the cliff and get the shot.

I was badgered to get the shot but I don't feel anymore "protected" than before. I joined the lemmings on their trek but won't jump off the cliff with them. How was I badgered? If you don't "show me your papers" you can't fly. Some states won't let you go out in public or visit places without guess what, "show me your papers". My GF went on a group tour to a remote national park last summer and at the last minute they required the shot or daily testing which of course is impossible at a remote NP. Oh and no refunds.

I just want honesty with this but that is impossible because corruption and the money trail reigns. Oh and that corruption is on all sides of the political spectrum, not just one.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:33 PM   #36
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Yep last year you didn't hear about the flu because the flu didn't have an advocacy group trying to push drugs. A comment above was "follow the money", so true. One of the largest lobbying group, maybe largest is pharmaceuticals. Probably every national level politician gets contributions from big Pharma and with that comes "expectations of performance". If you don't think big Pharma is in all we do, watch TV commercials. I try not to but they are there. With the government being complicit with big Pharma and pushing the covid vaccine, big Pharma saw the opportunity to ramp up the push for other vaccines and meds. Result we are flooded now with "information/misinformation".

Flu was old hat and the new kid with the advocacy, covid, got the attention and the credit for the hospitalizations and deaths. Statistics lie and liars use statistics.
The pharmaceutical lobby LOVES when you blame "the government" - taking the spotlight away from "them". That's when constructive debate becomes political, the masses start choosing sides... And nothing changes, other than Americans becoming more divided. Mission accomplished.

If your desire IS to place blame, keep the focus where it belongs - on the guilty parties - the pharma lobby and complicit politicians (of BOTH parties) who are accepting bribes. Don't turn what COULD be constructive problem solving conversation into a political shouting match.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:33 PM   #37
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My wife and I have had all three shots. Mainly because of my COPD. This last Tuesday she came down with the virus. Yesterday I found out I had it also, Both are mild cases. It is what it is, But I think the hype is to control our Lifes
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:45 PM   #38
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The pharmaceutical lobby LOVES when you blame "the government" - taking the spotlight away from "them". That's when constructive debate becomes political, the masses start choosing sides... And nothing changes, other than Americans becoming more divided. Mission accomplished.

If your desire IS to place blame, keep the focus where it belongs - on the guilty parties - the pharma lobby and complicit politicians (of BOTH parties) who are accepting bribes. Don't turn what COULD be constructive problem solving conversation into a political shouting match.
When it turns into a political shouting match it will get shut down without further discussion and it’s getting close.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:56 PM   #39
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Thalidomide.
No risk, great benefit(per FDA)
A newb at the department saved ssssooo many people.



That is all.
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:07 PM   #40
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The pharmaceutical lobby LOVES when you blame "the government" - taking the spotlight away from "them". That's when constructive debate becomes political, the masses start choosing sides... And nothing changes, other than Americans becoming more divided. Mission accomplished.

If your desire IS to place blame, keep the focus where it belongs - on the guilty parties - the pharma lobby and complicit politicians (of BOTH parties) who are accepting bribes. Don't turn what COULD be constructive problem solving conversation into a political shouting match.
Actually that what I was saying and I really think pharma IS the controlling factor in the government, one and the same. The chinese government developed or allowed covid to "escape" their lab and are not being held accountable because, "follow the money". Complicit politicians in ALL parties are to blame. We're just the sheeple heading to the shearing. Duckys comment about thalidomide is an example of egregious rushed deployment by pharma because "follow the money".

I'm done commenting on this topic and wish everyone well on the choices they make for their life. If anyone wants the shot, or 6 of them, get them. Those who chose not should be allowed to make that choice also without being fired, ostracized, or threatened.
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