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Old 09-14-2021, 02:32 PM   #361
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"Natural Immunity" is a generated misnomer. They are misnaming acquired immunity. If you had natural immunity you never would have caught it and got sick in the first place. You acquired some immunity because you caught the virus and your body was able to generate the anti-bodies to beat it down to an insignificant level.

Why don't we have good stats (assuming any of the other stats are good) for "recovered"?

Because without specific parameters "recovered" is just too wide open a term.

How do you measure how many people got the virus and recovered without any symptoms?
How do you measure how many people got the virus and recovered without being tested and found to be positive?
How do you measure how many people got the virus and recovered without being admitted to a hospital?
How do you measure how many people got the virus, went to the hospital, got well enough to go home, but were not tracked to a "recovered" condition?

The anti-body tests we have, have proven to be even more inaccurate than the "have you got it" tests; so you can't really use their results for any metric.

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Old 09-14-2021, 02:39 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by HMCSW View Post
Natural immunity is 20 times more effective than vaccine.

If the vaccine works I do not care if you are vaccinated.Just like the other COVID viruses (there are 4 others) if I get it now it will be mild.

I am vaccinated as I am 68. To each their own.
People in their 30's have a 99.97% survival rate.

Also: if you are wearing anything other than a N-95 mask properly fitted you are not protected. A cloth or little blue mask is like wearing a condom with holes in it.
As far as the AIDS thing: that is the typical binary false choice comparison.
There are a few lingering problems with acquiring natural immunity to SARS-2 CV virus.
<https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-long-haulers-long-term-effects-of-covid19>
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Old 09-14-2021, 03:00 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
"Natural Immunity" is a generated misnomer. They are misnaming acquired immunity. If you had natural immunity you never would have caught it and got sick in the first place. You acquired some immunity because you caught the virus and your body was able to generate the anti-bodies to beat it down to an insignificant level.
By this definition: you also acquire immunity by taking the vaccine shots...
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Old 09-14-2021, 03:05 PM   #364
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Trust? Cherry picking? Not sure I caught the point in full, but did I say something that was wrong, or misinformed? I will correct any errors I can before the edit windows closes.
You did not say anything wrong at all. I just have substantial questions. First we a vax that appears to help depending on which study used. A lot of early discussion was testing, testing? What results of testing, contact tracing and those who had already gotten? I know of 2 people early last year showing up as already having survived when tested to go to work in testing for covid. How does that fit in? The point of aquirred vs natural immunity is I think talking about same thing. Do people who already recovered from covid need vax? If so, why? What data.

My daughter in law had in Nov pre vax available. She has already been told get vax for cruise. Why?

I am sorry if my questions seem misplaced but I would like to hear full explaination of these mandates. What data used, what discarded. A lot of broad statements without full disclosure or discussion.

We go for our 2nd shot and wonder if is best choice. After son/daughter in law situation at that age is doubtful either could excape contact transfer unless contagion had very short shelf life.

I wonder about these things and do not mind being a lab rat, but like to fully understand real risk.
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Old 09-14-2021, 03:08 PM   #365
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By this definition: you also acquire immunity by taking the vaccine shots...
You are right!

So maybe "naturally acquired immunity" then?
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Old 09-14-2021, 04:23 PM   #366
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Some observations:

There are many millions of "flag waving Patriots" who claim to have studied "the history books". Question is - WHO wrote the history book??

The concept of "the Founding Fathers" is a majestic and honorable concept. Except they intentionally left out a few "inconvenient freedoms" when writing the original documents. The early history books tried to excuse the phrasing as having a different intended meaning. Bill Clinton tried that one too: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is." Case in point: Those who don't hold their elected officials (REGARDLESS of political stripe/affiliation) to task are ultimately the biggest fools.

What does "fully recovered from Covid" really mean? How can someone be "fully recovered" when several proven published medical studies show severe organ damage in some individuals in ALL age groups - from young children to the elderly?

From the Mayo Clinic:

Heart: Imaging tests taken months after "recovery" from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.

Lungs: The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.

Brain: Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. People claim to be "fully recovered", but are they really? What about in 25-30 years when that "healthy" 30 year old is now 60? Organ damage sustained at a young age can rear it's ugly head later in life... ask my father who died at 68 years old from congestive heart failure - damage done to his heart from "mini" heart attacks unnoticed when he was much younger.

We REALLY don't know what societal health damage the Covid variants will ultimately unleash - anyone who thinks they know is only guessing. We don't even have an accurate count of cases - so calculating widespread health effects are nothing more than extrapolating numbers of KNOWN cases - in other words - GUESSING!

So... just because you've "recovered" from immediate symptoms - don't be convinced you're out of the woods. The effects of your "mild symptoms" may have done more to your body than you think.
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Old 09-14-2021, 04:23 PM   #367
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I can work with that...
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Old 09-14-2021, 05:28 PM   #368
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You did not say anything wrong at all. I just have substantial questions. First we a vax that appears to help depending on which study used. A lot of early discussion was testing, testing? What results of testing, contact tracing and those who had already gotten? I know of 2 people early last year showing up as already having survived when tested to go to work in testing for covid. How does that fit in? The point of aquirred vs natural immunity is I think talking about same thing. Do people who already recovered from covid need vax? If so, why? What data.

My daughter in law had in Nov pre vax available. She has already been told get vax for cruise. Why?

I am sorry if my questions seem misplaced but I would like to hear full explaination of these mandates. What data used, what discarded. A lot of broad statements without full disclosure or discussion.

We go for our 2nd shot and wonder if is best choice. After son/daughter in law situation at that age is doubtful either could excape contact transfer unless contagion had very short shelf life.

I wonder about these things and do not mind being a lab rat, but like to fully understand real risk.
First, no apology was needed, but in this day and age (especially on forums), it is very much appreciated. I respect you 10 times more than I can ever disagree with you

I saw no difference with my second shot than my 1st; so for me if I take two gel tablets for flu or cold and they say to repeat in 12 hours, it is the same thing.

I don't think there are 2.6 billion lab rats. Picture for a moment the World with NO VACCINE available It is scary thought. You may view your self as a lab rat or part of the solution.

This is actually quite simple for most people. I have been taking medicines and vaccines my entire life, I have never tried to personally review and approve the test results Yes if the CDC and Experts are wrong; I may be screwed, but do I think I going collect data to prove them wrong Whenever you go to any Doctor, have any Medical procedure and they are wrong you may be screwed. No different.

To sum it up...

* I simply believe the virus exist, contagious and is deadly
* I believe the previous Administration (our government for the people) went to great lengths to make a vaccine become available, might have pushed too hard but I am glad they did
* I believe the Pharmaceutical companies stay trued to their schedules to deliver vaccines as fast a they could. I had my 1st exactly 1 year from March 2020
* I believe the CDC has tried to operate and recommend in the best interest of the public, but have sent some confusing signals with messaging, I put US Surgeon General in this same category
* I believe the current Administration (our government for the people) is going to great lengths to make sure the vaccine is administered to every eligible citizen to reach herd immunity. They be pushing too hard with some mandates but I am glad they are because I grow weary of the topic

So I hope the lesson learned is to not chastise or claim to be holier than thou over fellow American citizens, but help with the message for those seek information on why getting the vaccine is essential to getting back to normal and thus the greater good versus the simpleton perspective that "no one can make me get a shot"
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Old 09-14-2021, 05:45 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
Some observations:

What does "fully recovered from Covid" really mean? How can someone be "fully recovered" when several proven published medical studies show severe organ damage in some individuals in ALL age groups - from young children to the elderly?

People claim to be "fully recovered", but are they really? What about in 25-30 years when that "healthy" 30 year old is now 60? Organ damage sustained at a young age can rear it's ugly head later in life... ask my father who died at 68 years old from congestive heart failure - damage done to his heart from "mini" heart attacks unnoticed when he was much younger.

We REALLY don't know what societal health damage the Covid variants will ultimately unleash - anyone who thinks they know is only guessing. We don't even have an accurate count of cases - so calculating widespread health effects are nothing more than extrapolating numbers of KNOWN cases - in other words - GUESSING!

So... just because you've "recovered" from immediate symptoms - don't be convinced you're out of the woods. The effects of your "mild symptoms" may have done more to your body than you think.
And that's the reason I decided to get the vaccine. I have no idea what the long term effects of covid will be. I also got the shingles vaccine cause I don't like what the chicken pox virus does to some people years later.

I had to choose - the long term effects of a vaccine pumping through my veins or the long term effects of the virus pumping through my veins. No body know which is better or worse. Everyone is picking their poison.
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Old 09-14-2021, 05:59 PM   #370
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And that's the reason I decided to get the vaccine. I have no idea what the long term effects of covid will be. I also got the shingles vaccine cause I don't like what the chicken pox virus does to some people years later.

I had to choose - the long term effects of a vaccine pumping through my veins or the long term effects of the virus pumping through my veins. No body know which is better or worse. Everyone is picking their poison.
Exactly, ever notice how some are picking their poison (the vaccine) while at the same embracing the other ( to be a anti vaxxer)?

Some refuse to answer the question, but if pressed they will admit they are vaccinated, but outwardly champion and crow the view of the anti vaxxers under the pseudo-guise that the choice unvaccinated people are making should be respected; as the government should not tell them what to do with their bodies. My vaccinations had nothing to do with government telling me anything other than what they were for to protect against and when available. In my mind; I waiting a damn year for the vaccines to be approved to take.
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Old 09-14-2021, 07:43 PM   #371
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Old 09-14-2021, 08:27 PM   #372
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Read my post again.
I said it was an opinion: one that I will voice freely!
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Old 09-14-2021, 08:58 PM   #373
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Read my post again.
I said it was an opinion: one that I will voice freely!
It was a veiled insult and we both know it.

When is enough going to be enough? When you've had your way? You're not part of the solution, you're of the problem. You're sowing division - and that's apparent. You're the one name-calling, you and D...

In my opinion...
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:13 PM   #374
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Don't the facts show this is Worldwide? I dispute any stated facts saying it is largest divide in US history as I believe 70% have already been vaccinated. It may actually be the silliest dispute in US History.



This is really about the pace for some US citizens to reach the 80-85% threshold for what we all hope is herd immunity. It is about doing so with respect and with original intent of no mandates. But with the pressure of everyone getting back to normal; it has been more vocal of late as large masses that have been vaccinated begin to grow weary and impatient with those refused to vaccinate, some with good reasons and other not so much.



Make no mistake, the day will come when we hit 90% and there will still be some with the deeply imbedded beliefs you state. The only question in my mind is where will the US stand Worldwide in leading the World to eradicate this pandemic? And I mean beyond just the mere technical pharmaceutical power / knowledge to have developed the vaccines that are available to us all WORLDWIDE.
If you think this virus is going away you are kidding yourself

Flu vaccine for how many years and it was still around until CV19
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:28 PM   #375
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Annnnnd now we're locked again.

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Old 09-15-2021, 12:08 AM   #376
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