2020 Magnitude Structural Integrity Issue

[Judge]

It’s not the quality of fasteners in most cases.....

In many cases it is that the sheet metal attachment points are very thin and too much torque is being applied during the fastening process.

In a few other places on the coach they are using fasteners that are either too short or too narrow for the amount of load they are carrying. As an example, you would be surprised if you looked at the size of the screws (diameter and length) being used to hold the hinges on the entry door. All but two screws on three hinges were stripped and starting to fall out. When I took them out I could not believe they would use a screw of the size on a door with weight and gets as much use as it does. I have since replaced them with larger and longer screws (tightened by hand) and not more issues.

[OrdpeteMH]

Originally Posted by Nice_n_EZ

Could the issue be with the fasteners (panhead screws) and not the screw guns? I'm reminded of the airline issue and foreign made fasteners. The industry I work in has bolt specs that require usa-made bolts. The issue is poor quality steel and when torque is applied the fastener develops cracks that leads to failure in use. Maybe Thor needs a different screw supply.

Probably. Using higher quality fasteners would probably cost an extra $20 per coach and would affect profit margins. I don't think Thor bean counters would go for it.

I have found countless over torqued and stripped out screws on my coach.
I unfortunately second the theory that the screw guns are turned up to max to save time.

[cbach]

Also concur on the over shoot issue, likely with air guns. Digging around on the Newmar, I noticed the opposite, with a few screws here and there not driven all the way "home". Not in critical places, but on some of the baggage doors hinges and latches, which I joked with the salesman that I can easily give them another half-turn, and that it's much better than stripped out holes that can no longer hold tight. Whereas I was able to do a 3-4 hour PDI on the Magnitude, the new one will get at least a full day with repeated use of every system...maybe two with a screwdriver touching every last fastener to check for tight/stripped

[edkjr]

Judge, I've just read all your posts. And we went through the same frustrations with our 2016 sk35. You can see my old posts on roof separation. Even after having it repaired by the "experts at wakarusa" we've still having problems, I ended up repairing the fiberglass cause it cracked from the top corner of the slide to the overhead cab. Had the front of the overhead cap repainted cause of spider cracking from flexing. Thor didn't want to know, sorry we can't cover that was the response. But your right we looked at the dynamax super c, only got offered 60k. So another 150 + for a new rig. The wife said I was nuts if we did that. So just been living with what we got. And making upgrades when we can. Just started the lithium battery upgrade. Wish you best results in what ever you decide.
Ed K

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by edkjr

Judge, I've just read all your posts. And we went through the same frustrations with our 2016 sk35. You can see my old posts on roof separation. Even after having it repaired by the "experts at wakarusa" we've still having problems, I ended up repairing the fiberglass cause it cracked from the top corner of the slide to the overhead cab. Had the front of the overhead cap repainted cause of spider cracking from flexing. Thor didn't want to know, sorry we can't cover that was the response. But your right we looked at the dynamax super c, only got offered 60k. So another 150 + for a new rig. The wife said I was nuts if we did that. So just been living with what we got. And making upgrades when we can. Just started the lithium battery upgrade. Wish you best results in what ever you decide.

Ed K

Story is much like ours. We had a 32 ft 2016 Fleetwood Storm and couldn’t get but $60,000 on trade. Looked at a couple of Super C’s and liked the chassis but we really consider the house part to be the essential bit and the numbers simply didn’t make sense to us. We ended up with a wonderful floor plan on a new Newmar at more than $40,000 less. We’re happy.

[Judge]

Just a little update.......... I wanted to give a shout out once again to the Thor Factory Service Center in Wakarusa. Their customer service is the main reason I have stuck with Thor and they are not disappointing me once again.

I still don't have my coach back but I got some information from the Thor Factory Service Center yesterday that I thought I'd share after reviewing the Work Order and the repairs completed so far.

They have been waiting for a back-ordered motor for the cab-over power shade. I wanted them to check it because it would slow down about the half way point when opening or closing the shade and then speed back up once it passed half way point. I assumed it was the curvature in the track. When I was showing it to the technician when I dropped the coach off wouldn't you know the motor died! Better then than after I picked it up!

The main issue with the front cap was fixed in about a day. They believe the screws used to attach the front cap to the main wall structure at the factory were too small and too short. They installed larger screws and more screws than were used at the factory. I am hoping this fixes the problem permanently.

Now the good, the bad and the ugly....... while reading the work order I saw several add-on services that I didn't expect.

The Good..... When you take the coach to Wakarusa they go over it with a fine tooth comb and they will find things you didn't know about and fix them. These guys have pride in their company's products and pride in their own workmanship and they are a credit to the US working class.

- They found some kitchen drawer latches not working properly. I was having issues with a couple drawers but I didn't even tell them about it. I keep spare latches because those things fail often and I had planned to replace them in the spring. They found the bad ones and replaced them on their own!

- They tested my A/C units and were not happy with the air flow and performance so they did several improvements to both units. I didn't tell them anything about the A/C's. I did some of the improvements recommended on this site such as insulating the outside units, cleaning up the styrofoam in the ceiling vents, sealing the plenum divider, etc. I was actually going to order one of the RV Airflow Kits for the front A/C so it would be quieter and provide more airflow to the bedroom so I don't have to run that A/C when sleeping. The guys in Wakarusa tested the A/C units and thought they could make them perform better and apparently they did!

The Bad.....

While they were working on the coach the rear slide motor stopped working and they had to replace it. Again, better it happened when they had it and not during a trip. The scary part is that I have not had any issues with the slide for the past year so it is a little disconcerting that it failed without warning.. I have been worried about it just because it is a full wall slide and it is so big and heavy. I thought I was going to be ok because it seemed to be working fine over the past year. So after reading about the slide motor failing out of the blue..... I ordered a spare on Amazon last night for about $200. I am also thinking about buying a spare controller now as well.... just in case.

The Ugly.....

The Service Center always put the coach through their Rain Booth to test for leaks. I have not had any detectable water intrusion issues so far.... other than a little water on the floor around the front of the slide sometimes after washing it so I was not too worried about it. I also cleaned the roof and put down EternaBond tape over every seal and joint on the entire roof shortly after getting the coach. I have done this on my past two new coaches to eliminate the need for inspecting the roof every 3 - 6 months and adding Dicor to keep things sealed up. Once you put down EternaBond, it should be good for the life of the coach.

The Work Order said they found "Multiple Seal Voids on Exterior of Coach and Roof" and they "Cleaned and Resealed Entire Coach and Spot Sealed Roof."

I know that keeping a coach sealed up from the elements is a constant battle. That's why I put down EternaBond on every seam and joint on the roof right away. I intended to check all of the vertical panels this spring (furnace cover, water heater cover, etc.) and reseal them. I figured the sealant should be good for a year and this would be annual maintenance.... especially because I store my coach inside when it is not being used.

I'm guessing that since I do store the coach inside when not in use it has helped protect it from me finding any detectable leaks so far but Thor's Rain Booth Test is so thorough it is the best and only way to really find leaks you might not find until it is too late and the damage finally becomes visible.

We have been down at our home in FL since we dropped the coach off at the end of October. I told them if they didn't get it done in a week I would not be able to pick it up until a few days before Christmas when we head back north for the holidays. Sounds like that will work out just fine if the power shade motor comes in before Christmas and they can get it installed and the work completed.


I know that questions always come up about the Thor Service Center in Wakarusa and I wanted to be sure once again to give them a shout-out for their knowledge, experience, attention to detail and overall customer service. As far as I am concerned they are better than any dealer service center in the country..... period. I've used them a couple times now for warranty work and now that my warranty is over, I think I will continue to use them for any major work and things I cannot fix myself. I would rather pay them to do the work than anyone else. I'm even going to contemplate whether it makes sense to just schedule a standing October appointment every year to have them do an end of season check-up.... Rain Booth Test and all. I would happily pay them to find the leaks and fix them every year before they can do damage.


Now with all that being said... owning a coach is a full-time learning experience. I learned a lot when I got my first coach and I am still learning with this coach. I'm not sure if this will be our last new coach or not. We really do love the Magnitude SV34 and the floor plan works great for us. It is also the only Super C we could find with an outdoor kitchen. But the one thing I have learned from a design perspective is I would likely never buy a coach with a full wall slide or a front cap that extends past the windshield again.

If I was re-designing the Magnitude, I would have a shorter front cap so there would be no flexing of the cab-over that occurs while driving and leveling. You would loose some storage space (we use it for storage) or sleeping space but it would eliminate a lot of potential issues caused by the cab-over bunk hanging out far past the windshield.

The other thing I would do is split the full wall slide into two separate slides so you could still keep the outdoor kitchen. I would have one slide that housed the refrigerator, kitchen and recliners. Then I would have a second slide that just held the bedroom cabinets, TV and vanity to extend the bedroom area.

This would accomplish two things....

- It would eliminate the weight and stress of a full wall slide and likely lead to better performance and longevity of the slide-out system. It would also allow for one vertical support to be added on the driver side wall for better structural integrity.

- It would also allow you to use the bed without having the living area and kitchen area extended.

So there you go.... maybe Thor will read my suggestion and think about these design changes for future Super C's.

[JGallagher]

Judge,
Thanks for the very thorough update about your MH.
I was wondering how things were going in Wakarusa.
Happy Thanksgiving!
James

[Pete'sMH]

I’ve never liked over cab designs because EVERY one I’ve ever had (actually that’s just 3 of 3) eventually has leaked . Even despite my best efforts. I have noticed that Jayco uses a one piece design and maybe that’s better. Everything is a trade off!

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Pete'sMH

I’ve never liked over cab designs because EVERY one I’ve ever had (actually that’s just 3 of 3) eventually has leaked . Even despite my best efforts. I have noticed that Jayco uses a one piece design and maybe that’s better. Everything is a trade off!

The Magnitude uses a one piece front cap (rear cap too). It is molded with no seams other than where it mounts to the main house box.

I agree the the typical Class cab-over is prone to leaks because it is constructed in pieces..... top, left-side, right-side and then molding around all the seams. Definitely a leak waiting to happen.

That is what I liked about the Magnitude..... fewer seams to leak.

[RickD0]

Thank you Judge, I appreciate you posting and value your comments.

[droregon]

Judge, I just read your story. I hope the factory learns these lessons. I now have several things to watch for when my new RB34 is delivered, and we start using it.

The Omni/Magnitude is a step up from my Freedom Elite. I wanted the diesel and 4x4 for winter mountain driving. Our Freedom Elite was trouble free (I did add some items), that’s why I again looked to Thor.

Thanks again for sharing your story. I do hope problems get solved.

[jpnj2]

Great article after reading it I would like to take my coach there for an inspection. Do you have the phone # .. I really want to call them up

[Bob Denman]

Judge,
Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful treatise on how your right has been treated..
It should be required reading for anyone taking their RV to Wakarusa.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by jpnj2

Great article after reading it I would like to take my coach there for an inspection. Do you have the phone # .. I really want to call them up

I have a direct number to the desk of the service writer. I don't want to publish his name without his permission. You can try calling 574-584-3910 and seeing if you can request a service appointment if you are out of warranty.

If you are in warranty, you will want to call Thor Warranty Service first so they can register the issues and setup the internal paperwork to have the repairs done at no cost.

[Judge]

One other piece of advice for anyone with a longer coach. Especially coaches with a full wall slide and / or a large front cab-over cap.

I would not use the Auto Level Function. While it is good in theory, it does not possess common sense and it can't "see" the surroundings.

Auto Level tends to go through a lot of jack movement iterations. Sometimes to extremes when it is not necessary and more than is necessary. After watching what was going on with my front cap during leveling, I can see where the Auto Level puts more strain on the frame and body than is necessary at times.

I started manually leveling several months ago and when I spoke to the Technician at Thor about my theories, he said he does not like Auto Level for the reasons I mentioned. He told me I was doing the right thing by manually leveling.

I have two small levels that I place on the floor at the front 1/3 and back 1/3 of the coach to see how the coach needs to be leveled. I then put the Leveling System into manual and lower the front and rear jacks until they just touch the ground. Then I adjust the jacks as necessary to get level with the minimal amount of movement as possible to minimize the flexing of the frame, etc.

Even if you are level without the jacks down, you should still put them down to stabilize the suspension. This will prevent the coach from moving when you are walking around, opening storage bins, etc. and prevent additional stress from being placed on your slide-outs.

Just my $0.02 FWIW...... although with the coin shortage maybe it now and even dollar.

[jpnj2]

Originally Posted by Judge

I have a direct number to the desk of the service writer. I don't want to publish his name without his permission. You can try calling 574-584-3910 and seeing if you can request a service appointment if you are out of warranty.



If you are in warranty, you will want to call Thor Warranty Service first so they can register the issues and setup the internal paperwork to have the repairs done at no cost.

Thanks for the info I will call them. If not for repairs,I would like to tour the factory it should be fun seeing how these condos are put together

[Judge]

Originally Posted by jpnj2

Thanks for the info I will call them. If not for repairs,I would like to tour the factory it should be fun seeing how these condos are put together

The tours are cancelled at the moment because of COVID unfortunately.

You also can't stay overnight in your coach if they have to work on it for multiple days because of COVID.

Hopefully life can get back to normal by this time next year.

[RickD0]

Question on Omni's. When the coach is plugged into shore power is the chasis battery being charged as well as house batteries?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by RickD0

Question on Omni's. When the coach is plugged into shore power is the chassis battery being charged as well as house batteries?

The short answer is yes.

There is a BIM160 (Battery Isolator Manager) in the battery compartment that allows the Converter to charge the chassis batteries when the voltage drops to ~12.6V. It also allows the alternator to charge the house batteries when the engine is running and the house batteries drop to ~12.6V.

[RickD0]

Thanks, coach is in storage and plugged in. I was going to put a trickle charger on but good to know I won't need.

Originally Posted by Judge

The short answer is yes.

There is a BIM160 (Battery Isolator Manager) in the battery compartment that allows the Converter to charge the chassis batteries when the voltage drops to ~12.6V. It also allows the alternator to charge the house batteries when the engine is running and the house batteries drop to ~12.6V.