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Old 10-25-2021, 05:43 AM   #1
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Brand: Jayco
State: Colorado
Posts: 8
THOR #25187
2022 Omni XG32 Concerns

Hello All,

My wife and I have located a new 2022 Omni XG in Sacramento that checks all the boxes. We struck a deal and are working through financial details now.

I joined this board yesterday to learn all things Thor and after reading about some of the quality issues like front caps coming apart, I'm disappointed to say the least.

We currently have a 2017 Jayco Greyhawk 31DS that has been virtually problem free and the few minor things we've had, have been an easy fix by yours truely. We love the Greyhawk, but now want diesel, 4x4, and enclosed tanks and water lines to extend our season. The XG32 does all that and more.

I'm a good DIY'er but not interested in reattaching front caps, especially after laying down $200k. Although my wife suggested we go through with the purchase, tear it all apart and fix it before it breaks LOL!

So are these quality issues isolated cases, result of abuse, or consistent design and/QC issues with Thor?

Someone please talk me off the ledge!

Thanks - Brad in Colorado

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Old 10-25-2021, 11:59 AM   #2
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 2,729
THOR #12751
I've owned a 2020 Magnitude SV34 for just over two years and I purchased one of the first off the line built in April 2019. So let's set some expectations and give you one owner's experience to consider in your decision making process.....

1. 4 Season Camping - The XG32 is not a true 4-season coach. While the black and grey tanks are heated, there is some exposed plumbing in the wet bay (outdoor shower) and the coach is not insulated in a way to prevent water lines from freezing if temps are below 30 for several hours. The Girard tankless Water Heater does have a built-in protection where it will fire up the heat exchanger periodically when temps drop below 35. However, that assumes you have an adequate supple of propane (and your furnace would also be using propane significantly in cold weather.

2. Front Cap - I had the front cap separation issue after only ~5000 miles on the coach. This is an issue that dates back to Thor's previous Super C's and is a result of poor manufacturing practices. They use too few screws and the screws are too small and short and they are typically over-tightened and stripped during manufacturing. I took the coach to the Thor Factory Service Center in Wakarusa a year ago to have it fixed. I just got back from a 2-month / 7200 mile trip and now have 20,000 miles on the coach and so far the front cap repair seems to be holding. I would say that 80% of the Omni / Magnitude owners I have encountered have experienced the front cap issue.

3. Slide - The XG32 has two slides that are shorter than the single full wall slide of the SV34, BT36 and RS36. Several of us have had slide issues with the full wall slide because the Schwintek Slide Mechanism is not the best design when it comes to large and heavy slides. I had my slide fail in the middle of my 2-month trip. I ended up diverting to Tucson at the end of my trip to have the Schwintek Mechanism replaced by the Vroom Slide System.

4. General Quality and Workmanship - The Omni / Magnitude look great on the dealers lot and I have gotten compliments almost everywhere I go about how sharp my coach looks. However, when you peel back the onion you will find quality and workmanship that leaves something to be desired in many cases. After owning another Thor Class C coach previously, I came to expect that I would be doing some amount of repairs and upgrades on my own. During the 12-month warranty I had the coach at the Thor Service Center twice, the dealer once and I performed over a dozen of my own repairs under warranty (Thor Customer Service is great and they sent me parts under warranty so I could do the repairs better and faster myself). I have also done an extensive number of upgrades that you will read about if you do some searches. Many of the repairs during warranty were minor to moderate in terms of severity.



I had reached a point where I considered dumping my SV34 and going with a Renegade or Dynamax Super C. They are more expensive but the quality, workmanship and components used are better than what Thor offers in my opinion.

Now that it appears the front cap is attached properly and that the Vroom Slide System is superior to the Schwintek Slide System that I recently had replaced, I think the coach could be stable and reliable enough now to keep. I am very good mechanically speaking and I feel I can handle most other issues that might come up.

My concern with any new coach built since late 2020 is that quality and workmanship could be worse than what I have typically come to expect. All of the RV manufacturers have experienced unprecedented demand. They have had trouble hiring enough workers to meet that demand and they are taking what they can get in terms of warm bodies. Most of these workers are somewhat unskilled and lack pride in the quality of their work.... and the RV manufacturers are also to blame because they are trying to just push out as many units as they can as quickly as they can.

The other issue is that component shortages are causing some manufacturers to rip up their schematics and modify units on the line to make different components they can obtain fit and work when they may not be the same as what was originally spec'ed for a model.

Now with all that being said, I am not trying to scare you into not going through with your deal. You could get lucky like you did with your Jayco and have relatively few issues. But you need to set your expectations that you may have to do quite a few repairs on your own. If you don't have the skills to do 80% of the work that could be needed on the coach, then I would recommend you pass. I'm not talking about fixing a front cap or major slide issue.... that is major stuff that I let the experts at the Thor Service Center handle.

I made the decision early on that after dealing with enough poor service at dealers that I would only use the Thor Factory Service in Wakarusa for major repairs. I also wouldn't wait weeks or months for a dealer appointment and then have the coach sit there for weeks until they looked at it.... submitted the repairs to Thor for approval.... and then order the parts once approved. That can be a slow and painful process.

As I said, I have had two Thor coaches and Thor Customer Service sent me parts under warranty for both coaches so I could so my own repairs. But based on recent feedback from this site it sounds like Thor Customer Service is overwhelmed from the demand created by the flood of new and many first time owners. I could usually make contact with Thor same day or next day and they would get the parts shipped out in one or two days. It sounds like it is taking longer to get through to them and for them to ship out parts now.

I have the coach winterized and stored in my pole building in PA while we spend our winters down in Florida. I am going to spend from now until May when we head back north deciding whether I keep the coach or whether I look for a Renegade.

After going over the coach after we got back from our long trip, it seems to have held up well, including the repaired front cap. I had to spend $2500 on the Vroom Slide System at the end of our trip but after using the slide numerous times now I can tell it is performing far better than it did with the Schwintek System and I feel it is robust enough to be reliable. I also have spent a lot of time and money on upgrades (including a recent LiFePO4 upgrade) so I am factoring that into my decision making process as well.

At the moment, I'm leaning on keeping the coach based on all of the above. I also doubt I can get out anything close to what I have put into the coach.... although it is far better now than any Omni / Magnitude you could ever purchase. I wouldn't trade it in.... I would sell it outright to get the most I could out of it so I would have to deal with that process. Then there is the additional money to buy a more expensive coach.... plus the process of fixing issues and upgrading a new coach (although those should be less theoretically). I do like our Magnitude when everything is working as it should. It checks off 90% of the boxes for me, looks great and does meet our traveling goals.

My wife also loves our current coach and doesn't want me to get rid of it.... and you know what they say about a happy wife.

I'm not trying to tell you to not do the deal or to do the deal. You'll need to make this a logical more than an emotional decision. Major purchases like this always involve an emotional component so the key is balancing the emotion with logic. You need to consider the feedback you get from other owners (feedback from others besides me as well), your financial situation and the deal you worked, your own ability to do repairs and upgrades, how much patience you will have when issues will inevitably occur and whether you would drive to Indiana if you need to have Thor address a major issue like a front cap problem.

I hope you will find some of this useful. Good luck and I hope things work out the way you and your wife hope!
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Old 10-25-2021, 02:02 PM   #3
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Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
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2022 Omni XG32 Concerns

I also wanted to mention that the F-55 is a great chassis! It is the real deal. It has plenty of power, good fuel economy, handling, reliability and durability. It also tows very well. It has far exceeded my expectations!
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Old 10-25-2021, 06:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I've owned a 2020 Magnitude SV34 for just over two years and I purchased one of the first off the line built in April 2019. So let's set some expectations and give you one owner's experience to consider in your decision making process.....

My concern with any new coach built since late 2020 is that quality and workmanship could be worse than what I have typically come to expect. All of the RV manufacturers have experienced unprecedented demand. They have had trouble hiring enough workers to meet that demand and they are taking what they can get in terms of warm bodies. Most of these workers are somewhat unskilled and lack pride in the quality of their work.... and the RV manufacturers are also to blame because they are trying to just push out as many units as they can as quickly as they can.

The other issue is that component shortages are causing some manufacturers to rip up their schematics and modify units on the line to make different components they can obtain fit and work when they may not be the same as what was originally spec'ed for a model.
Quality has been a issue for eight to ten years maybe longer. It is not just a THOR issue. One manufacture wants to increase production or introduce an new line, they need workers. Offer a small increase in pay to get workers from your competitors and some newbies.

There is nothing wrong with changing to other components so long as engineering drawings and parts list have revisions documented. If not, it can create a big cluster *%$#! In my working life I had to rev designs as part availability changed. Mechanical engineers were in charge and I could not get them to understand that space level parts are not like sheet metal that can be gotten in a few days. They were shocked after waiting six months the parts were now on a six to eighteen month availability. You would think they would learn the first time - NO! Never.
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:28 PM   #5
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Model: Omni XG32
State: Alabama
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THOR #22586
I've got a 2021 XG32 and I can echo Judges comments. Factory QA is poor and appears little to no QC. Frankly not sure any other manufacturers are any better right now. With the smaller slides in the XG32 I don't fret the slide issues but do make sure I hold the switch in for the 3-5 seconds after full in or out. The theater seating "incliners" they put in suck big time and I swapped for RecPro seating. Others have gone with Thomas Payne. I personally don't like the Girard WH, but others do. I find the floor plan mostly very usable, enough kitchen space and storage since we cook mostly. Shower is cramped but we don't spend that much time in there anyway. There have been a few minor warranty items and some I've handled myself. Nothing has fallen off the wall which is good. I guess they put a variety of mattress in and we got the Serta RV one. It's pretty good but we'll see how long that OK lasts.

As Judge said the F550 chassis is a good one, very comfortable, strong and handles well. Unfortunately mine is in the shop with steering issues that I've described in a different thread. Hope I can get it back this week. Feel free to ask any questions about the 32. Had mine since mid May, 5K miles, 2 moderate trips and 3 short local ones.
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Old 10-26-2021, 12:52 AM   #6
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Model: XG 32 Omni
State: Missouri
Posts: 736
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Like Judge and Chunker have said, be prepared for for issues. I have a 2020 XG32 that we purchased last May, haven't had too many issues with it mostly small stuff, had 1 warranty repair last year an issue with the 2 windows over the dinette rattling while going down the road and Thor replaced them with a new design window which you will not have that issue as your new coach will have the new design.
Have a little over 13k miles on the coach and I have the dreaded front cap structural issue which I have decided to fix myself this winter instead of going to Thor service center and wasting time and money on a repair that I'm pretty sure they're not going to fix under the Structural Warranty, regular 1 year warranty was up when I noticed it.
We really like the floor plan and the F550 chassis is a dream to drive, it's to bad Thor didn't put a house on the chassis that's just as good. Like other have said, I'm not sure you will find any coach out there right now regardless of manufacture that is not going to have some QC issues.
Not trying to talk you out of purchasing the coach, but go in with your eyes wide open and just be prepared.
And inspect that front cap often, very often, so when it starts coming loose you can get it fixed under the 1 year warranty.
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Old 10-26-2021, 03:00 AM   #7
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Model: Chateau 24F
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Claiming that workers building the units take no pride in their work is disingenuous, don't you think? Have you actually talked to these workers? Are you implying ALL, or just a few "bad apples"... just like you might find in ANY manufacturing facility?

A more accurate assessment would be that THOR OWNERS/MANAGEMENT take no pride in the products with their name displayed. No one is forcing them to push crappy product out the door.

That said, I would hesitate buying ANY new sub- $200k RV in the current climate. But as long as people continue to excuse away overpriced poorly assembled RVs and continue buying, you get what you asked for.
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Old 10-26-2021, 03:03 AM   #8
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Brand: Jayco
State: Colorado
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I've owned a 2020 Magnitude SV34 for just over two years and I purchased one of the first off the line built in April 2019. So let's set some expectations and give you one owner's experience to consider in your decision making process.....

1. 4 Season Camping - The XG32 is not a true 4-season coach. While the black and grey tanks are heated, there is some exposed plumbing in the wet bay (outdoor shower) and the coach is not insulated in a way to prevent water lines from freezing if temps are below 30 for several hours. The Girard tankless Water Heater does have a built-in protection where it will fire up the heat exchanger periodically when temps drop below 35. However, that assumes you have an adequate supple of propane (and your furnace would also be using propane significantly in cold weather.

2. Front Cap - I had the front cap separation issue after only ~5000 miles on the coach. This is an issue that dates back to Thor's previous Super C's and is a result of poor manufacturing practices. They use too few screws and the screws are too small and short and they are typically over-tightened and stripped during manufacturing. I took the coach to the Thor Factory Service Center in Wakarusa a year ago to have it fixed. I just got back from a 2-month / 7200 mile trip and now have 20,000 miles on the coach and so far the front cap repair seems to be holding. I would say that 80% of the Omni / Magnitude owners I have encountered have experienced the front cap issue.

3. Slide - The XG32 has two slides that are shorter than the single full wall slide of the SV34, BT36 and RS36. Several of us have had slide issues with the full wall slide because the Schwintek Slide Mechanism is not the best design when it comes to large and heavy slides. I had my slide fail in the middle of my 2-month trip. I ended up diverting to Tucson at the end of my trip to have the Schwintek Mechanism replaced by the Vroom Slide System.

4. General Quality and Workmanship - The Omni / Magnitude look great on the dealers lot and I have gotten compliments almost everywhere I go about how sharp my coach looks. However, when you peel back the onion you will find quality and workmanship that leaves something to be desired in many cases. After owning another Thor Class C coach previously, I came to expect that I would be doing some amount of repairs and upgrades on my own. During the 12-month warranty I had the coach at the Thor Service Center twice, the dealer once and I performed over a dozen of my own repairs under warranty (Thor Customer Service is great and they sent me parts under warranty so I could do the repairs better and faster myself). I have also done an extensive number of upgrades that you will read about if you do some searches. Many of the repairs during warranty were minor to moderate in terms of severity.



I had reached a point where I considered dumping my SV34 and going with a Renegade or Dynamax Super C. They are more expensive but the quality, workmanship and components used are better than what Thor offers in my opinion.

Now that it appears the front cap is attached properly and that the Vroom Slide System is superior to the Schwintek Slide System that I recently had replaced, I think the coach could be stable and reliable enough now to keep. I am very good mechanically speaking and I feel I can handle most other issues that might come up.

My concern with any new coach built since late 2020 is that quality and workmanship could be worse than what I have typically come to expect. All of the RV manufacturers have experienced unprecedented demand. They have had trouble hiring enough workers to meet that demand and they are taking what they can get in terms of warm bodies. Most of these workers are somewhat unskilled and lack pride in the quality of their work.... and the RV manufacturers are also to blame because they are trying to just push out as many units as they can as quickly as they can.

The other issue is that component shortages are causing some manufacturers to rip up their schematics and modify units on the line to make different components they can obtain fit and work when they may not be the same as what was originally spec'ed for a model.

Now with all that being said, I am not trying to scare you into not going through with your deal. You could get lucky like you did with your Jayco and have relatively few issues. But you need to set your expectations that you may have to do quite a few repairs on your own. If you don't have the skills to do 80% of the work that could be needed on the coach, then I would recommend you pass. I'm not talking about fixing a front cap or major slide issue.... that is major stuff that I let the experts at the Thor Service Center handle.

I made the decision early on that after dealing with enough poor service at dealers that I would only use the Thor Factory Service in Wakarusa for major repairs. I also wouldn't wait weeks or months for a dealer appointment and then have the coach sit there for weeks until they looked at it.... submitted the repairs to Thor for approval.... and then order the parts once approved. That can be a slow and painful process.

As I said, I have had two Thor coaches and Thor Customer Service sent me parts under warranty for both coaches so I could so my own repairs. But based on recent feedback from this site it sounds like Thor Customer Service is overwhelmed from the demand created by the flood of new and many first time owners. I could usually make contact with Thor same day or next day and they would get the parts shipped out in one or two days. It sounds like it is taking longer to get through to them and for them to ship out parts now.

I have the coach winterized and stored in my pole building in PA while we spend our winters down in Florida. I am going to spend from now until May when we head back north deciding whether I keep the coach or whether I look for a Renegade.

After going over the coach after we got back from our long trip, it seems to have held up well, including the repaired front cap. I had to spend $2500 on the Vroom Slide System at the end of our trip but after using the slide numerous times now I can tell it is performing far better than it did with the Schwintek System and I feel it is robust enough to be reliable. I also have spent a lot of time and money on upgrades (including a recent LiFePO4 upgrade) so I am factoring that into my decision making process as well.

At the moment, I'm leaning on keeping the coach based on all of the above. I also doubt I can get out anything close to what I have put into the coach.... although it is far better now than any Omni / Magnitude you could ever purchase. I wouldn't trade it in.... I would sell it outright to get the most I could out of it so I would have to deal with that process. Then there is the additional money to buy a more expensive coach.... plus the process of fixing issues and upgrading a new coach (although those should be less theoretically). I do like our Magnitude when everything is working as it should. It checks off 90% of the boxes for me, looks great and does meet our traveling goals.

My wife also loves our current coach and doesn't want me to get rid of it.... and you know what they say about a happy wife.

I'm not trying to tell you to not do the deal or to do the deal. You'll need to make this a logical more than an emotional decision. Major purchases like this always involve an emotional component so the key is balancing the emotion with logic. You need to consider the feedback you get from other owners (feedback from others besides me as well), your financial situation and the deal you worked, your own ability to do repairs and upgrades, how much patience you will have when issues will inevitably occur and whether you would drive to Indiana if you need to have Thor address a major issue like a front cap problem.

I hope you will find some of this useful. Good luck and I hope things work out the way you and your wife hope!
Thank you Judge! Your response is extremely helpful and greatly appreciated!
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Old 10-26-2021, 03:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I also wanted to mention that the F-55 is a great chassis! It is the real deal. It has plenty of power, good fuel economy, handling, reliability and durability. It also tows very well. It has far exceeded my expectations!
Great feedback and very helpful!

I'm a Ford PowerStroke fan from way back (2001 7.3L) and the 6.7L with a 10 speed must be a beast!

Thanks!
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Old 10-26-2021, 05:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
Claiming that workers building the units take no pride in their work is disingenuous, don't you think? Have you actually talked to these workers? Are you implying ALL, or just a few "bad apples"... just like you might find in ANY manufacturing facility?

A more accurate assessment would be that THOR OWNERS/MANAGEMENT take no pride in the products with their name displayed. No one is forcing them to push crappy product out the door.

That said, I would hesitate buying ANY new sub- $200k RV in the current climate. But as long as people continue to excuse away overpriced poorly assembled RVs and continue buying, you get what you asked for.
If the workers took pride in their work they wouldn't leave trash in the coach behind all the cabinets and every drawer you pull out and under the bed pretty much every where you look, and they wouldn't over tighten just about every screw and pull the hole and just leave it that way, make a mess out of wiring harnesses, pinch fuel lines or cut them too short where they get pinched closed going around a corner.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Thor owners/management, they don't care, they're making money and that's all they care about.
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Old 10-26-2021, 05:15 AM   #11
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State: Arizona
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Some electric/thermostat pipe wrap
A 4x4 conversion(easily done by a great shop in slc).
Gets you everything but the diesel which requires MEGA miles to break even on that fantastic upfront cost. Few rv's ever accumulate enough miles.
And
You get to keep the rv You have and love.

I've yet to use my 4x4 set-up for Any reason.
I don't know that I've read of others using theirs for any serious reason.

Want is powerful.
Alternative is practical.

$20,000 upgrade cost for what you love.
$220,000 upgrade cost for what you doubt.
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Old 10-26-2021, 05:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwplot34 View Post
If the workers took pride in their work they wouldn't leave trash in the coach behind all the cabinets and every drawer you pull out and under the bed pretty much every where you look, and they wouldn't over tighten just about every screw and pull the hole and just leave it that way, make a mess out of wiring harnesses, pinch fuel lines or cut them too short where they get pinched closed going around a corner.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Thor owners/management, they don't care, they're making money and that's all they care about.
So I ask you... if YOUR employees did that, there are two possible outcomes:
You would immediately fire them because of poor skill/work ethic... OR:
You wouldn't care because they are following instructions, doing EXACTLY as told... like NOT vacuuming out sawdust and construction debris.

Sounds like a management decision to me... because Thor CONTINUES to do exactly that! Have you not watched the Jayco trailer build video?
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Old 10-26-2021, 05:48 AM   #13
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Economy of time.
Some jobs don't pay enough for the job to be done.
Margins aren't big enough(no, you don't get to decide Thor's margins), and buyers are cost driven enough...zo the sawdust CANNOT be vacuumed out, the porterhouse can't be trimmed lean enough, the gawdy white paint on the escalade can't be standard, and the gold plated touch faucet can't be standard on the entry level cardboard motor home.

Whoever has asked for a discount off of msrp, they're EXACTLY the reason for the sawdust and nails and staples.

Face it.
You all offered less, you all got less.
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Old 10-26-2021, 11:17 AM   #14
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Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
State: Florida
Posts: 2,729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
Claiming that workers building the units take no pride in their work is disingenuous, don't you think? Have you actually talked to these workers? Are you implying ALL, or just a few "bad apples"... just like you might find in ANY manufacturing facility?

A more accurate assessment would be that THOR OWNERS/MANAGEMENT take no pride in the products with their name displayed. No one is forcing them to push crappy product out the door.
Apparently you didn't read my entire post....

My concern with any new coach built since late 2020 is that quality and workmanship could be worse than what I have typically come to expect. All of the RV manufacturers have experienced unprecedented demand. They have had trouble hiring enough workers to meet that demand and they are taking what they can get in terms of warm bodies. Most of these workers are somewhat unskilled and lack pride in the quality of their work.... and the RV manufacturers are also to blame because they are trying to just push out as many units as they can as quickly as they can.


I did put some of the blame on the manufacturers and while I usually live by the 80 / 20 Rule and would say 80% of the workers do care and 20% don't.... I think that would be far too generous.

So maybe instead of "most" I should have used the word "many" and some of the issues are from another reason I stated.... unskilled and inexperienced workers. I will apologize to any worker that I offended out there if they truly care about their job and give their best each and every day.

But just like the "Rust" movie set where they hired a 24 year old girl to be the Armor Expert.... very few 20-somethings are going to have enough time under their belts to be experts. You can put some of the blame on the manufacturers for not hiring better people but that is hard to do when many people don't want to work.

And I'm getting a little tired of hearing the excuse all the time of "if companies paid people better, they would get more workers and higher quality work." Horse hockey!!!


When I was a teenager and worked for my dad, he was harder on me than any other employee. He gave me the crappiest and hardest jobs over any other employee. I didn't understand at the time what I did wrong or why he was "picking" on me.... but eventually as I got older I understood what he was teaching me. The job also wasn't done until everything was cleaned up and put away because "if you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

When I graduated college in 1986 with a BS in Chemistry the best job I could find started out at $5/hr and no benefits..... hell people working at McDonalds were making more than I was and a college degree was supposed to lead you to the promised land.

Did I do a crappy job because I was only making $5/hr? Did I let the situation and poor management define me? Hell no.... I did not!

I worked harder than anyone else and did my job better so I stood out over everyone else so I could rise above them (thanks to my dad's lesson years earlier). I used it as motivation to make myself better and make myself more valuable.

What did that approach get me?

Promotions..... more money..... better jobs with other companies.... and the financial independence and ability to retire in my 50's. And guess what.... I reinvented myself 20+ years ago to go even further in my career and never even used my Chemistry education again.


My neighbor back at our place in PA is a farmer and can't get people to work in the fields. When he tries to hire teenagers, they last a day or two. Then the parents show up asking for their final pay. When he asks where they have been, the parents say "the work is just too hard for Johnny or Jill."

There in lies the problem......

When it comes to the quality and workmanship of some of the people that do work..... When it comes to people not wanting to work...... When it comes to people complaining they don't get paid enough money to work....... It all comes down to one thing.... how they were raised.

Something happened over the years where parents stopped teaching their kids that you have to work hard and do the best job you can.... regardless of how crappy or hard the job may be..... or how much you are paid for the job.

Kids aren't being taught that you take your job seriously and do it with pride and eventually you will be recognized for it and it will pay off in the end. Kids aren't being taught to apply themselves and find ways to always improve to make themselves better so they can eventually find better jobs and earn more money.

And parents stopped teaching the kids that have becomes today's 20's and 30's workforce that you can't have everything you want... and you can't have everything right now..... and that you have to work hard and earn the right to get where you want to be. The 20's and 30's and even some of the 40's workforce of today want the 6-figure salary first.... then they will feel like getting around to do some work.

End of rant.....
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Old 10-26-2021, 12:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad View Post
So I ask you... if YOUR employees did that, there are two possible outcomes:
You would immediately fire them because of poor skill/work ethic... OR:
You wouldn't care because they are following instructions, doing EXACTLY as told... like NOT vacuuming out sawdust and construction debris.

Sounds like a management decision to me... because Thor CONTINUES to do exactly that! Have you not watched the Jayco trailer build video?
There is a possible 3rd outcome, you teach the employee the correct way to do the job.
An employee that takes pride in their work does not need to be told to clean up after their self or do the job correctly.
Maybe you missed it in my earlier post but I said the Thor owner/management don't care because they're are making money and that's all they care about.

Guess I was just raised better, I was taught to do the job correctly and if you make an error you fix it not to cover it up. If you work hard and take pride in your work you will succeed no matter what you're paid. And like Judge, I also worked hard and did my job correctly and was able to retire in my 50"s.
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Old 10-26-2021, 12:38 PM   #16
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So I'm going to tie this example into my rant above......

Scenario 1

A waiter or waitress making $2.75/hr does their job extremely well and they get a 20 - 25% tip. They do a mediocre job, they get 15%. They do a horrible job and they get 10%... or maybe nothing. Now granted they can get rewarded or penalized immediately for the quality of their work but they have a choice on how well they do their job.

Scenario 2

A guy working at RV Manufacturer XYZ in his 20's making $13/hr and doing hard work. He does a crappy job because its hard work.... he hates it.... and he feels he's not being paid enough. He may even show up late every day or call in sick regularly or just not show up some days.

Another guy in his 20's on the same line making the same wage actually works hard.... takes pride in his work and does it very well..... he documents the quality of his work (pictures, notes, reviews, etc.).... he's the first to show up each day and the last to leave. Then after 6 months or a year he eventually goes to market himself to his manager for a better position and better pay. Or if his management and company are crappy and don't care about his work, he takes examples of his work quality to other companies along with his record of showing up on time and not missing days. He gets a better job with another RV company.... or maybe even a company in a different industry..... he gets paid more. Then the process repeats itself.... and one day he finds himself as a senior manager running his own line and he is making $100K/yr.


If more people behaved the way the second guy did, the quality of the product coming off the line would be pretty decent.... regardless of what the workers earned or what you paid for the product.

Now in Scenario 2 a good company would need to find ways to keep those good employees, which would mean paying them more and giving them better jobs to keep from losing them. But a good company also finds ways to offset the costs of higher wages by finding ways to reduce other costs and improve efficiencies so they don't have to pass 100% of the increased costs onto the consumer. Will the price of the product have to go up? Sure it will. Does the price need to increase 25% if ages go up 25%? Not necessarily.

The companies that don't care about their workers or quality products eventually die off.... they go out of business or they get bought up by a competitor.

But if more people are taught early in life about the value of hard work, doing their best job at all times and personal responsibility for making a better life for themselves, then a lot of problems we have today start to fade away.
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Old 10-26-2021, 01:00 PM   #17
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Back to the XG32

I don't disagree with the assessment above of poor work ethic of the line workers and zero forward looking management work ethic. Live for today, or maybe this moment and forget about the future.

But back to the Omni. Thor is an entry level builder of RVs especially those with Thor on the side. Other nameplates, Keystone, Airstream, now Tiffin, supposedly operate independently but I would suspect the thor bean counters will weigh their heavy LQC (low QC) hand if costs aren't within what thor wants. Being an entry level builder thor puts in less and cheaper materials. Toilet is an entry level and poor bowl design/shape. I'll be replacing with a Dometic 310 or 320 soon. Showers flimsy and not supported well. One here replaced his and some of us reinforced the underside. Furniture is a bad design. I pulled out the "incliner" theater seating and replaced with Recpro. My butt and back thanks me. Tacky front bumper instead of going with a better Ford bumper like the Renegade Veracruz. I suspect they have usable fog lights. Air conditioning ducting using styrofoam channel that has poor integrity instead of metal HVAC ducting like the Nexus, Renegade and even my GF's Crusader 5th wheel.

Paragraph break so this is readable. Little to no insulation in the front cap. Single pane windows. At 1/4 million $$$$$ dual pane should be standard. Girard WH is bottom line and water and waste tank waster. Typical RV mattress, see $$$ comment above.

Where does thor excel?? Interior design. I've said and saw others say, if thor put anywhere near the budget and care into structural design and application that they did in interior design, they would have the best RV product on the market. What sells?. Bling, colors. floor space flow, appliance placement. My GF, who tends to be a form over function type loudly states that RV manufacturers need to put women in charge of the esthetics design, not men. I'm a function guy so we don't see quality in the same way or things. I look at the bones not the skin, the function not the pretty covering, etc.

The XG32 has a very usable interior except some things noted in my earlier post. The cabinets are real wood and the design and finish is nice. Real wood will last longer and screws/hinges last longer than composite materials such as MDF/particle board/etc. The kitchen appliances work well with the 2 burner propane stove, induction burner and micro/convection. Could use more counter space but the XG32 at 33.5' just doesn't have the room. I don't want a 40'+- RV again. The XG32 has a shorter main slide than the other floor plans but still too much weight in it with the kitchen appliances. I won't have a full wall slide in spite of how much it "opens up" an RV. Plenty of bedroom storage and closet space. For the length a good amount of kitchen storage also. Interior plan nicely done.

With an RV everything is a compromise with thor you accept a nice interior design and realize the structure wasn't the top priority in the design. If Winnebago Ind. made a smaller "super C" on the F550 or Ram 5500 chassis I would have leaned that way, but they don't. Yes Renegade does and everything is a compromise. Whether the Omni/Magnitude line is for you is your decision and it will work out if you go into it eyes wide open, have some basic do it yourself skills, and check very carefully any RV before signing on the dotted line.
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Old 10-26-2021, 02:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge View Post
Apparently you didn't read my entire post....

My concern with any new coach built since late 2020 is that quality and workmanship could be worse than what I have typically come to expect. All of the RV manufacturers have experienced unprecedented demand. They have had trouble hiring enough workers to meet that demand and they are taking what they can get in terms of warm bodies. Most of these workers are somewhat unskilled and lack pride in the quality of their work.... and the RV manufacturers are also to blame because they are trying to just push out as many units as they can as quickly as they can.


I did put some of the blame on the manufacturers and while I usually live by the 80 / 20 Rule and would say 80% of the workers do care and 20% don't.... I think that would be far too generous.

So maybe instead of "most" I should have used the word "many" and some of the issues are from another reason I stated.... unskilled and inexperienced workers. I will apologize to any worker that I offended out there if they truly care about their job and give their best each and every day.

But just like the "Rust" movie set where they hired a 24 year old girl to be the Armor Expert.... very few 20-somethings are going to have enough time under their belts to be experts. You can put some of the blame on the manufacturers for not hiring better people but that is hard to do when many people don't want to work.

And I'm getting a little tired of hearing the excuse all the time of "if companies paid people better, they would get more workers and higher quality work." Horse hockey!!!


When I was a teenager and worked for my dad, he was harder on me than any other employee. He gave me the crappiest and hardest jobs over any other employee. I didn't understand at the time what I did wrong or why he was "picking" on me.... but eventually as I got older I understood what he was teaching me. The job also wasn't done until everything was cleaned up and put away because "if you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

When I graduated college in 1986 with a BS in Chemistry the best job I could find started out at $5/hr and no benefits..... hell people working at McDonalds were making more than I was and a college degree was supposed to lead you to the promised land.

Did I do a crappy job because I was only making $5/hr? Did I let the situation and poor management define me? Hell no.... I did not!

I worked harder than anyone else and did my job better so I stood out over everyone else so I could rise above them (thanks to my dad's lesson years earlier). I used it as motivation to make myself better and make myself more valuable.

What did that approach get me?

Promotions..... more money..... better jobs with other companies.... and the financial independence and ability to retire in my 50's. And guess what.... I reinvented myself 20+ years ago to go even further in my career and never even used my Chemistry education again.


My neighbor back at our place in PA is a farmer and can't get people to work in the fields. When he tries to hire teenagers, they last a day or two. Then the parents show up asking for their final pay. When he asks where they have been, the parents say "the work is just too hard for Johnny or Jill."

There in lies the problem......

When it comes to the quality and workmanship of some of the people that do work..... When it comes to people not wanting to work...... When it comes to people complaining they don't get paid enough money to work....... It all comes down to one thing.... how they were raised.

Something happened over the years where parents stopped teaching their kids that you have to work hard and do the best job you can.... regardless of how crappy or hard the job may be..... or how much you are paid for the job.

Kids aren't being taught that you take your job seriously and do it with pride and eventually you will be recognized for it and it will pay off in the end. Kids aren't being taught to apply themselves and find ways to always improve to make themselves better so they can eventually find better jobs and earn more money.

And parents stopped teaching the kids that have becomes today's 20's and 30's workforce that you can't have everything you want... and you can't have everything right now..... and that you have to work hard and earn the right to get where you want to be. The 20's and 30's and even some of the 40's workforce of today want the 6-figure salary first.... then they will feel like getting around to do some work.

End of rant.....
Judge you nailed it again!

The three big issues i had with the Tuscany were deliberately caused by workers and not caught by QA

Lack of accountability and self esteem are not related to lower pay
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Old 10-26-2021, 06:51 PM   #19
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My last farmhand(age 45) now gone, whom I couldn't get to show up for 4 hours every other day, just got a call from a friend who's family needs some help.
Farmhand told me it would require $86k, a company truck and medical or he won't take the job. (It's a day-labor type gig).
I paid $18 an hour, 1099, and told him he could work up to $1,000 a week for at least a full year. $70 every other day was all I could get out of him.


Go ahead and tell the kids and grandkids
'You can be anything you want to be.'
What they're hearing is:
If I can't be an astronaut I don't need to be anything.

If you don't like the work
QUIT LIKING THE WORKERS!
We raised them.
Have some guts and tell them they aren't coming to Thanksgiving if they're slackers.

Take the blame.
We raised them.
WE let them have these work ethics.
It starts and ENDS at home,
End it.
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Old 10-26-2021, 07:20 PM   #20
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Model: 2020 Magnitude SV34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Take the blame.
We raised them.
WE let them have these work ethics.
It starts and ENDS at home,
End it.

That is the truth.........
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