23U Ford or Chevy?

[23U_2016]

Originally Posted by airforceret

The stock E350 sway bars are way too soft with my 26B. I do plan to upgrade to E450 (or better) sway bars next year. Too bad Thor screwed us on our 2017 order and downgraded our purchase to an E350 chassis. #ThorLacksIntegrity I've been driving it like I stole it and averaging about 7.3 mpg. Put over 9,000 miles on it this season. Started prepping for storage tonight. Did you go with aftermarket sway bars?

Yes I did.
Here is a link to what I installed:
1997-2017 Ford E40 & E450 Super Duty Cut-A-Way Chassis - REAR Sway Bar (1 1/2 diameter) [7180] | $262.49 | SD Truck Springs | Leaf Springs, Helper Springs and Suspension Parts

Did it my driveway in 3 hours. Do not need to jack RV up.

I also modified my front end alignment camber. Ford charged me $300 and worth every penny. They had to add shims so that is why the cost was higher.
It seems the E450 cutaway chassis is also used for box trucks and the factory caster is set way low to make the box trucks easier to steer in the city. The higher camber does not make the E450 hard to steer at all and added a lot of stability.
See this link:
E350/E450 Handling Problems are caused by too little + CASTER
Between the heavy duty rear sway bar and extra camber my E450 handles like a dream now. No more white knuckles.
Good luck.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by 23U_2016

Yes I did.
Here is a link to what I installed:
1997-2017 Ford E40 & E450 Super Duty Cut-A-Way Chassis - REAR Sway Bar (1 1/2 diameter) [7180] | $262.49 | SD Truck Springs | Leaf Springs, Helper Springs and Suspension Parts


It seems the E450 cutaway chassis is also used for box trucks and the factory caster is set way low to make the box trucks easier to steer in the city. The higher camber does not make the E450 hard to steer at all and added a lot of stability.
See this link:
E350/E450 Handling Problems are caused by too little + CASTER
Between the heavy duty rear sway bar and extra camber my E450 handles like a dream now. No more white knuckles.
Good luck.

Thanks for the links and the information!

[mmthor]

So a bit of a long term follow-up from the OP. We got the 23U with the Ford Chassis. Had alignment done, installed a Saf-T-Plus, and eventually changed out the rear sway bar to something beefier. It's been about 2 years now and it drives great. 1 of those years was full time all over the US, and a bit of Mexico and Canada as well. Yes the engine is a bit loud but the power is great- no issues at all over even the steepest mountain passes. I'm glad I went with the Ford... particularly since we just started towing a toad and it didn't change the handling/power at all. MPG didn't even change with the toad.

Chassis aside the coach part of the 23U has had many, many modifications to it. I more or less replaced the entire electrical system- 800 watts of thing flexible solar on the roof, 400 AmpHrs of Lithium batteries, and a 3000 watt inverter.

[airforceret]

Since our 26B is longer and heavier than the 23U we ended up going a different route. The rear suspension literally gave out on the driver side due to being overloaded from the poor design by Thor to the point it was literally 3 inches lower on the driver side than the passenger and regularly bottoming out. We had Power Brake and Spring Service in South Bend, Indiana build custom leaf springs to support the weight evenly and properly. The ride and handling are a dramatic improvement, and towing is significantly improved now that the back end is not always dragging entering/leaving slight inclines.

[Muggs]

We just had to run back to central Florida, then to Memphis TN, then back to NC. Dragging a 5,500 lb open racecar trailer actoss I40 with 6% grades has always made me hesitant. The e450 driveline proved to be no issue. Previously we had mostly towed on the flatter areas. MPG with trailer was 8.75 for entire I40 run.

Overall we were very impressed with Ford setup (my 1st Ford).

The v10 can be pretty loud at times but seems to be very effective. By the time we reach Florida again we will be over 34,000 miles in 4 years.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by mmthor

So a bit of a long term follow-up from the OP. We got the 23U with the Ford Chassis. Had alignment done, installed a Saf-T-Plus, and eventually changed out the rear sway bar to something beefier. It's been about 2 years now and it drives great. 1 of those years was full time all over the US, and a bit of Mexico and Canada as well. Yes the engine is a bit loud but the power is great- no issues at all over even the steepest mountain passes. I'm glad I went with the Ford... particularly since we just started towing a toad and it didn't change the handling/power at all. MPG didn't even change with the toad.

Chassis aside the coach part of the 23U has had many, many modifications to it. I more or less replaced the entire electrical system- 800 watts of thing flexible solar on the roof, 400 AmpHrs of Lithium batteries, and a 3000 watt inverter.

You have been very busy: congratulations!

[DavidEM]

As an update to this thread if you are thinking about buying new, the Ford E350, E450 and F53 RV chassis now come with a brand new 7.3 liter V8 gasser. Reportedly quieter,smoother and a bit more efficient than the V10 with more low speed torque. The suspension at least on the F53 chassis is improved as well with a heavier front sway bar.

David

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

As an update to this thread if you are thinking about buying new, the Ford E350, E450 and F53 RV chassis now come with a brand new 7.3 liter V8 gasser. Reportedly quieter,smoother and a bit more efficient than the V10 with more low speed torque. The suspension at least on the F53 chassis is improved as well with a heavier front sway bar.

David

Agree current Chevy comparison should be against new Ford 7.3L V8 instead of discontinued 6.8L V10; unless looking at used motorhomes or previous year models still on lot.

As mentioned 3 years ago, it was about time Ford designed a truck-specific large V8 to replace the V10. Reliability hasn’t been the issue for me, since I’m now approaching 205,000 miles without serious problems. It’s been the lack of refinement by modern standards.

One remaining improvement I’m waiting to see is the new engine cover designed to provide a little more leg room on Class Cs. Limited leg room is one of the greatest Ford E-Series disadvantages in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Chance

....cut...

I like the Ford E-Series cab but I'm biased because I've been driving them for about 20 years total. Having said that, I'm not a blind fan of the Ford V10 even though my present one has 175,000 miles (in a van) and only with minor repairs. It is reliable, but lacks refinement. Ford has been lacking a large modern truck-size V8 for a long time in my opinion.

[ducksface]

A consideration for me would be aftermarket 3ngine add ins.
Available for the Chevy, not so much for the ford's.
With a relatively small amount of dollars the 6.0 Chevy goes to 600hp and the same torque.

Cheap and easy.
The 7.3 is a bit unknown yet about upgrades for power or Mileage. I think someone has a blower for it in development.
The v10 has almost zero aftermarket backing.

But
This is a
I'll make it mine
type thing
And not an
It's fine right out if the box type thing.

The Chevy has almost unending suspension and engine aftermarket support.
I couldn't even get an electric locker for my Ford rear end. (maybe available now, I'll wait until I get stuck a time or two before looking into it again)

[Bob Denman]

I guess we'll have to see what 5-Star has up their sleeves...

[DavidEM]

I can't find hp and torque curves for the new Ford v8 tuned for heavy trucks like the F53, but tuned for the F250 pickup it makes 400 ft lb of torque at 1,500 rpm and peaks at 475 ft lb at 4,500 rpm. Why would anyone with an E350, E450 or F53 based RV want more? That beats the Mercedes Sprinter 3.0 liter turbocharged diesel.

David

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I can't find hp and torque curves for the new Ford v8 tuned for heavy trucks like the F53, but tuned for the F250 pickup it makes 400 ft lb of torque at 1,500 rpm and peaks at 475 ft lb at 4,500 rpm. Why would anyone with an E350, E450 or F53 based RV want more? That beats the Mercedes Sprinter 3.0 liter turbocharged diesel.
David

That's a pretty low bar...
188 hp, and 325 lb/ft of torque.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I can't find hp and torque curves for the new Ford v8 tuned for heavy trucks like the F53, but tuned for the F250 pickup it makes 400 ft lb of torque at 1,500 rpm and peaks at 475 ft lb at 4,500 rpm. Why would anyone with an E350, E450 or F53 based RV want more? That beats the Mercedes Sprinter 3.0 liter turbocharged diesel.

David

Yes, about 400 lb-ft starting around 1,500 RPM. If you took 1/2 of this engine and made an in-line 4 cylinder out of it, it would be more powerful than the MB 3.0L diesel.

Obviously that can’t be done because owners would whine about low torque, and also vibration. It would take a minimum of an in-line 6-cylinder in my opinion to be viable. Just saying that Sprinter diesel can’t compare at all with 7.3L V8.
.

[DavidEM]

Well, yes that was probably a stupid comparison although the Sprinter RV chassis goes up to 11,030 lbs and the E350 RV chassis, the Axis/Vegas 24.1 is only 1,500 lbs more.

Maybe the new Ford V8 will be a beast of an engine in my new 24.1 that is on order.


David

[Bob Denman]

David,
You'll be getting a Hot Rod!

[DavidEM]

Actually I hope that Ford gears the E350 chassis that is used in the Axis 24.1 appropriately. I read somewhere that a new RV owner with the Ford engine ran at 2,500 rpm at 65 mph. I would prefer since the 24.1 is the lightest of the Ford V8 chassis that it runs closer to 2,000 at 65 mph. My CVT transmission Pathfinder SUV runs below 2,000 rpm at 65 and is one reason why it gets pretty good mileage on the highway.

We will see early next year when it is delivered.

David

[Bob Denman]

I hope that it turns out to be better than anything you could have hoped for!

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

Actually I hope that Ford gears the E350 chassis that is used in the Axis 24.1 appropriately. I read somewhere that a new RV owner with the Ford engine ran at 2,500 rpm at 65 mph. I would prefer since the 24.1 is the lightest of the Ford V8 chassis that it runs closer to 2,000 at 65 mph. My CVT transmission Pathfinder SUV runs below 2,000 rpm at 65 and is one reason why it gets pretty good mileage on the highway.

We will see early next year when it is delivered.

David

Ford specifications show two final ratios for the E-350; it’s either 4.10 or 4.56.

At 65 MPH in top gear with stock tires that calculates to 2120 or 2350 RPM.

The E-450 chassis is listed with 4.56 gears so 2,350 RPM at 65 MPH.

The E-350 “if” with 4.10 gears should run just under 2,000 RPM at 60 MPH (~1,950 RPM).

[airforceret]

I regularly run from Indiana to Utah across the Rocky Mountains with trailer in two. I miss engine braking I had with my Duramax but other than that I get up and down the mountains just fine. We've got about 30,000 miles on our 2018 now.

[The Mr Beaumont]

I went with the Ford E-450 chassis with the new 7.3 liter Godzilla engine. It had a few more ponies than the V-10. I'm happy with it towing my Jeep around NM/UT. I get 9.5 mpg empty and around 6.8 full while towing at 70mph.