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Old 05-25-2021, 04:50 PM   #1
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THOR #23306
Battery / Charge / operation questions

Specs
Quantum WS31
2 AGM 92A AGM deep cycle batteries (new purchase)
WFCO WF-8955PEC Converter / Charger

Everything "seems" to be working but.. How long should it take to fully charge the batteries? It was connected to a 15Am shore power circuit for a week, (power to the coach was on), then we took it on a trip (6 hours drive each way), connected to a 30amp shore power post for 2 days while there.
Came back and the batteries were at 40%.
I may be missing something here, but i would have though the batteries would have been charged. Everything in the coach was off for the drive (except the coach power and fridge). While at the rv ground, the fridge and a few house lights were used.

Here is where the confusion comes in...
When connected to shore power, I hear the relay switch in, and i get power to the 110 outlets in the coach, does it now also charge the batteries at the same time?
I know that this converter is setup to be happiest when connected to shore power, but i should get something from the drive right?
if this is connected to shore power (30Amp), should it not also charge the batteries?

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Old 05-25-2021, 05:49 PM   #2
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Your coach may or may not be setup to charge the house batteries from the alternator - some Class C MHs are not. Those that are setup that way have either a BIRD and Trombetta solenoid, or a BIM device.

In order to charge the house batteries from the converter, in addition to obvious things like 120 VAC available from SP, Converter breaker on, Converter working, and reverse polarity fuses intact;
You must also have the USE/STORE (battery disconnect) switch in USE (battery connected) and the 50 Amp DC breaker near the batteries that feeds the house DC buss must not be tripped.

If you believe this USE/STORE disconnect automatically connects when plugged into SP because you have an "indicating" light that "says so", you are mistaken. That light will always be on when 12 VDC power is available to the house DC buss, it is NOT an indication of the battery disconnect status.
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Old 05-25-2021, 07:29 PM   #3
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Sorry,
There is in fact a BIM module next to the battery box.
As i understand, the batteries should be getting charged from the alternator (i just do not know what is actually being passed as far as charge current.

As far as the house disconnect, there was not an assumption that it gets turned on automatically (i do with the light didnt come on unless the power is actually on).
When I connect the SP cord, I heart the ATS relay move and i get power to the fridge and microwave (that was the assumption for power when i am connected to shore).
I am trying to get straight in my mind how the batteries actually get charged. I connected a battery charger direct to the batteries last night and they now show as 100%.
I am just trying to avoid issues with upcoming trips. I want to make sure i can actually charging the batteries when not connected to shore power.
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Old 05-25-2021, 07:39 PM   #4
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plugging into 15Am shore power circuit for a day should charge your batteries.
Ileave use/store in use and driving, sp, generator and solar all charge my house batteries
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Old 05-25-2021, 07:46 PM   #5
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Is your use/store or coach battery disconnect switch on?

Also the WFCO converter is a very poor charger, progressive dynamics is much better, but after a few days even the WFCO should charge them up. See switch question above.

Finally, Thor often wires the BIM backwards. I changed mine to the chassis battery being connected to the A terminal and that made it finally work as it should.

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Old 05-25-2021, 08:09 PM   #6
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if new batteries, then they’re not being charged somewhere in your system
Something is definitely amiss

Hook up a volt meter with your engine running
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Old 05-26-2021, 12:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by taylorbob1 View Post
if new batteries, then they’re not being charged somewhere in your system
Something is definitely amiss

Hook up a volt meter with your engine running
I would also check the battery voltage when connected to shore power and when disconnected. Sounds like the charging function of the converter isn't working either. Maybe disconnect each battery and perform a load test if you are getting charging voltages.
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Old 05-26-2021, 03:40 PM   #8
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Thank you for the responses..
I took my trusty multimeter out to the rig (I have also installed an AiLi battery monitor).. Did a bit more poking around and looking over the schematics from Thor.. As it turns out, what I thought was a BIM was actually a 100 amp breaker (I believe for the slide motor, pictured)
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I have also located a BIR relay in the engine compartment (I believe that to be tied to the emergency jump start for the engine).

After charging the batteries overnight and getting them to 100% here is what i have.

Everything off batteries read 13.8
Start the engine and I get 14.5 at the batteries and it appears 10 amps (read by the Aili monitor)

Shut down the engine and start the generator I get 13.5 and 2 amps

Went out this morning and had 12.8v with 98% showing (left the house power on overnight with nothing inside turned on). There appears to be about a 1amp draw from the light on the house power switch.

Everything, Connect Shore Power, I get 13.5 and I think just over 10amps (this drops off after a few minutes), I did not write this one down because I thought I could remember this for 5 minutes....
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Old 05-26-2021, 03:46 PM   #9
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Thank you for the responses..
I took my trusty multimeter out to the rig (I have also installed an AiLi battery monitor).. Did a bit more poking around and looking over the schematics from Thor.. As it turns out, what I thought was a BIM was actually a 100 amp breaker (I believe for the slide motor, pictured)
The slide motors get power from the slide controller which gets power from the DC fuse panel in the MH - right beside the 120 VAC breakers.

That 100 amp DC breaker is generally used to connect the starting power for the generator and the power for the hydraulic levelers (if so equipped).
You should also see a 50 amp version close to the batteries which is used to connect the house batteries to the 12 VDC buss through the disconnect latching relay.
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Old 05-26-2021, 04:09 PM   #10
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Thank you .. you are correct.
That 100amp breaker does appear to go to the jacks and the generator.
I cannot seem to locate a 50 amp near the battery box, it may be in the mess of stuff under the refrigerator where the inverter and the house power switch wires are located.

Would anyone happen to know how I can re-wire the house power switch to light only when its on? I can add a second light to let me know I am getting DC power from the converter.
As it is right now (or was until I put the monitor in), there is no way to visually see that the house power is on while connected to SP. Since that switch has a light in it that comes on if there is power from the converter. I am trying to make this as fool proof as possible so I can see from the ground if things are correct when I walk away and have it connected to the outlet in the storage facility, no sense in connecting it if I am not actually charging from it.
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Old 05-26-2021, 07:13 PM   #11
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The problem is the converter will charge to 13.5V in normal mode. If the batteries are low, the converter will charge to 14.5V but backs off to 13.5V when reached. Bottom line is your converter will never charge your house batteries to 100% which will shorten their lives. I debated installing a good charger to my RV (like a marine charger), connecting it to a receptacle (so it will be energized with shore power or the genset) and the batteries so it will charge for 10+ hours at 14.5V I settled to simply plug in my garage battery charger once per month to charge at 14.5V for around 12 hours, least costly and effective.
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Old 05-26-2021, 07:48 PM   #12
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i found these online confusing. But my coach shows 12.3 12.7 and 13.4. when i use th einverter w/microwave drops to 11.8 and 11.9. group 24 centinieal batteries original. my rv tech said the interstate group 31 flooded will help a lot and current batteries are SHIX!!
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:10 PM   #13
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Keep in mind you can increase battery capacity with larger batteries that will give you more offline run time. I will use 4-6V batteries connected series/parallel next change out. Either way for lead acid batteries you need to “equalize” each cell to minimize cell calcification and reduced battery capacity/life. To do this you need to bring your house batteries to 14.5+V for 10+ hours periodically. When running down the road your coach alternator will usually get them to 14.3V which is good but you need to keep them there for 10+ hours. As load picks up (refrigerator kicks on, coach headlights) voltage will fall.
Remember also that the genset will not charge the batteries directly, it will power up the converter (RV battery charger) but you need the DC isolation switch “on” to charge the house batteries.
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Overtime View Post
The problem is the converter will charge to 13.5V in normal mode. If the batteries are low, the converter will charge to 14.5V but backs off to 13.5V when reached. Bottom line is your converter will never charge your house batteries to 100% which will shorten their lives. I debated installing a good charger to my RV (like a marine charger), connecting it to a receptacle (so it will be energized with shore power or the genset) and the batteries so it will charge for 10+ hours at 14.5V I settled to simply plug in my garage battery charger once per month to charge at 14.5V for around 12 hours, least costly and effective.
Anything over 12.7 VDC at the battery, at rest, is a capacitive (or surface) charge. Don't confuse charging voltage with battery voltage. As long as the charging voltage is greater than the resting battery voltage the battery will act as a load and accept current (charge).
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:31 PM   #15
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Overtime if off SP dry camping and need to run generator. According to the chart 200 to 300 amp hours .which i think is the range for the new group 31 flooded I have ordered the generator running 1 hour will get them to 12.7 or so..so leaving the generator on will get it to 13.x?
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:45 PM   #16
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Keep in mind the chart is for charging isolated batteries, if your coach is drawing from the batteries (non propane refrigerators seem to be a big battery load) you need to add that draw to the desired charging current. My converter will put out 50A if the batteries are low, it switches to a lower charging mode (13.5V) once the batteries hit 14.5V so i wouldn’t base your calculation on 50A charging. The converter will continue to “dial back” the closer you get to 13.5V also.
To mimimize gas burn on your genset, you may consider a parallel charger (25A Schumacher would work great).
The part about charging to 14.5V is for long term battery health so it really isn’t in play here, you just need to maximize genset output while running.
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Old 05-26-2021, 08:50 PM   #17
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great info thx
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Old 05-26-2021, 09:06 PM   #18
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Sorry for being long winded but here are a few more thoughts.
To conserve battery draw while out you would want to turn off the DC isolation switch however this wouldn’t allow your genset to charge your batteries
Your AC inverter is hard wired to your batteries so it will bleed down the batteries (this is the power source for your refrigerator) along with any other AC loads (microwave clock, Smoke/CO, etc)

Assuming the goal is to have the refrigerator powered up and have enough house battery power left to crank the genset (however you can parallel the coach battery if needed) when returning was the basis for the parallel charger. Your original question is a good point, you can also run the genset longer (gas compared to the cost of an additional charger).
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Old 05-26-2021, 09:28 PM   #19
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no problem. i have an inverter and switch is off unless we need a 110 outlet. Solar charges the house battery. I only run genset if battery is below 11.7 it is set to AGS mode. refri is propane/electic set to auto so when out uses propane i assume
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Old 05-26-2021, 11:10 PM   #20
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I am jealous of your fridge, ours is 1.5 years old (Fridgidare) and it has surface rust on it. It also takes forever to get things cool and sucks up the energy. I wish I had the propane electric - quantum levels better (also wish we had a propane oven instead of the oven/microwave)
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