Generator Gone/Battery Compartment

[Bob Denman]

The O.P. has charging systems in place..

[Nazu]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

The O.P. has charging systems in place..

He's exchanging one generator for another generator?

I thought he was ditching the generator altogether because I heard fossil fuels and noise/smoke mentioned but if he's keeping a generator and adding a big inverter + lithium that's smart.

[The_Breeze]

Depending on what's meant by 'for us', he may be picking up one of those 45lb generators.

Solar only works best in full and direct sun. Anything less produces a diminished corresponding result. Sun up and sundown (hours of daylight) play a role, as will the angle of the sun in the sky (seasons). Portable panels may be a worthwhile consideration. Still, the sun is not always out so a backup source may be needed (depending on consumption [aka 'for us']).

6 BB batteries is a lot of juice and may carry them through. I have 4, totaling 5kwh. I also have the big green monster if needed. There's room for 1300w of solar on the roof in phase 2. Again, only 1300w at 100% exposure.

I plan to visit the northeast this summer, where most everything is shaded. 1300w will do diddly squat to charge my batteries in those conditions. Not to mention the cleaning they'll need after coming out from under all the foliage. Hit the woods when spring has sprung and better avoid the pines, spewing sap onto every exposed surface. Dirt, dust and pollen diminish performance too.

It's not always about practicality or ROI. Sometimes it's the science and the challenge to get it right (or as close as possible).

[Gmthrust]

These batteries don’t need charging as much as an AGM or Lead Acid, plus I can delete them to zero, recharge them and over and over. Battleborn guarantees that you can do that anywhere from 3000 to 5000 times and still retain 80% of their capacity after 10 years. I’ll take my chances on an artificial lung and gain much needed body space.
I tried to work your lung analogy in there😉

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Gmthrust

These batteries don’t need charging as much as an AGM or Lead Acid, plus I can delete them to zero, recharge them and over and over. Battleborn guarantees that you can do that anywhere from 3000 to 5000 times and still retain 80% of their capacity after 10 years. I’ll take my chances on an artificial lung and gain much needed body space.
I tried to work your lung analogy in there😉

Just FYI: recommendation is 20%, not zero. You can take them to zero and retain full output and/but reduce duty cycles and shorten the 80% capacity time.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Nazu

Removing an energy source is like having a healthy lung removed but each to their own.

Those expensive batteries still need charging on a regular basis either way.

Here’s a common scenario. Many motorhome owners travel from campground to campground, rarely if ever boondocking.

At a campground, the inverter/charger will completely charge the batteries overnight. He can now run pretty much anything in motorhome, including microwave, without having to start a generator. He could go into a store or restaurant for an hour or more without having a generator running.

Whether that’s an advantage is completely up to you and how you use your motorhome. I see a similarity to electric cars — they are not for everyone but when they work for some, owners seem to really like them.



I personally don’t want a large generator because it makes no sense whatsoever for the way we travel. However, a motorhome with smaller battery bank and small generator versus going all battery with very large battery bank would be a tough choice. That’s the “option” Winnebago is giving buyers of new EKKO. Both choices are excellent in their own way. It will be interesting to see how most are ordered and sold.

[Bob Denman]

I like the idea of dual alternators; for packing in the juice.

[Gmthrust]

Originally Posted by Nazu

He's exchanging one generator for another generator?

I thought he was ditching the generator altogether because I heard fossil fuels and noise/smoke mentioned but if he's keeping a generator and adding a big inverter + lithium that's smart.

I ditched the big green monster in exchange for big inverters, lithium, future solar and smaller portable generator. I did mention noise and smoke-that's the best way I could describe the generator. We ran that generator every day for nearly 3-4 months and put 500 hours on it, while we were making modifications to it. Did a bunch of oil changes, filter changes...all the required maintenance items. Pain in the butt adding oil to that thing...

[Gmthrust]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

I like the idea of dual alternators; for packing in the juice.

Silly F550 has dual alts (not a lot of documentation that says there are two, but I know what I see when I open the hood) and a 400W inverter! Love that truck

[dkoldman]

This project / quest just blows my mind? I can't imagine my RV without the generator. I may obviously be misguided, but my Onan 5500 and the EC-30 is by far my favorite toy on the RV. I don't use that much to be worried about fossils fuels but the flexibility of how it can be used is priceless in my opinion. i.e. We were caught in that recent blizzard in Colorado. We had to move out of the Chatfield State Park for safety reason. We took the RV to legally and safely park on a street in Denver. Versus running my propane for heat, I chose to run my generator and use the electric heaters for the coach. It was a bonus because my Onan was adjusted for the 5000 ft altitude, but the Norcold Propane Fridge & Suburban Propane Heater was not. So we just ran the genset when needed using Electric only Fridge and 2 Portable 1500watt electric heaters. Just so you, the coach was winterized; so the Suburban Gas only hot water heater was a non factor. I have 5500 genset, and it is NOT as loud as some suggest. I believe it enclosed with door shut is just as quiet as the external portable Hondas. I will find out soon because I ordered a new sound meter to compare the decibels. Yes, the Onan may burn more gas per hour, but I can argue with my EC-30; I run fewer hours as the EC-30 controls the start / run times needed to keep everything charged / running. Besides, the solar / battery investment to get at 25% or so reduction of fuel would seem to cost prohibitive.

[Pete'sMH]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

This project / quest just blows my mind? I can't imagine my RV without the generator. I may obviously misguided, but my Onan 5500 and the EC-30 is by far my favorite toy on the RV. I don't use that much to be worried about fossils fuels but the flexibility of how it can be used is priceless in my opinion. i.e. We were caught in that recent blizzard in Colorado. We had to move out of the Chatfield State Park for safety reason. We took the RV to legally and safely park on a street in Denver. Versus running my propane for heat, and I chose to run my generator and use the electric heaters for the coach. It was a bonus because my Onan was adjusted for altitude but the Propane Fridge & Propane Heater was not. So we just ran the genset when needed using Electric only Fridge and 2 Portable 1500watt electric heaters. I have 5500 genset and it is NOT as loud as some suggest. I believe it is just as quiet as the portable Hondas. I will find out soon because I ordered a new sound meter to compare the decibels. Yes, the Onan may burn more gas per hour, but I can argue with my EC-30 I run fewer hours as the EC-30 controls the start / run times needed to keep everything charged / running. Besides, the investment to get at 25% or so reduction of fuel would seem to cost prohibitive.

I’m with you on this. But I also really like all the diversity in styles and habits represented here. Interesting stuff. I have to admit that we don’t use our generator all that often but when we need it we need it. Snowbirded to Texas last month (didn’t work out all that well!). Found ourselves in south Texas in an ice storm with not much propane, no shore power, no water and temps in the teens for several days. Generator was pretty indispensable. I was pretty pleased that it started right up when I needed it at 4:00 AM and 14 degrees outside - and 41 inside when the cold woke us up. Another time I’ve found it valuable was when we were in a small park with failed (overloaded) electrical service on a 100 degree day in full sun.

[Bob Denman]

Yup! There's always more than one way out of a circumstance; we all bring our own ideas to the table.

[Chance]

While difficult to imagine a motorhome without a traditional generator, Winnebago just went into production of the Ekko which offers the option of replacing the 2.8 kW Onan with a second 320 Amp-hour battery, for a total of 640 Amp-hours, or about 8 kWh of energy.

The Fit RV couple got their hands on one of the first pre-production test units in long video below, and it has the no-generator option:


https://youtu.be/NxXY8FGG-bo


The Winnebago system is similar to what was described in this thread, except it has more battery capacity (640 Ah), less inverter capacity (2 kW), and greater alternator-charging rate (280 Amp) relative to its size and probable energy needs. It’s small, very well insulated, has one efficient air conditioner, etc.


For emergency heat in case you ran out of propane, you’d have to run engine and warm motorhome with engine heat, while at same time charging batteries. Batteries could then power a small electric heater for hours before this cycle would have to be repeated. Personally, I’d prefer this over a portable generator in an emergency if that was my only other option. In EKKO, engine should start automatically when batteries get low so owner shouldn’t have to get out of warm bed.

And this assumes a winter storm “and” owner ran out of propane. This should be rare. I’d be more worried about air conditioning in summer.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chance

While difficult to imagine a motorhome without a traditional generator, Winnebago just went into production of the Ekko which offers the option of replacing the 2.8 kW Onan with a second 320 Amp-hour battery, for a total of 640 Amp-hours, or about 8 kWh of energy.

By chance when we overnight parked at Sierra Grande Rest Stop (NM) there were two identical Terrain looking RVs parked across from us. I don't think they were the Ekkos but looked very similar. Maybe they did NOT have generators either. They came in after we were sleep and we left before daylight. Note: We did not have to run the generator after 10:00 pm or before 6:00 AM


The Winnebago system is similar to what was described in this thread, except it has more battery capacity (640 Ah), less inverter capacity (2 kW), and greater alternator-charging rate (280 Amp) relative to its size and probable energy needs. It’s small, very well insulated, has one efficient air conditioner, etc.

Wow that is almost 4 times my current AHs and twice my inverter I do plan to double my current AHs from factory, but I will wait until the batteries give way, or into year 3 of my $1,500/year self funded kiddie pool from NOT buying the extended warranty package


For emergency heat in case you ran out of propane, you’d have to run engine and warm motorhome with engine heat, while at same time charging batteries. Batteries could then power a small electric heater for hours before this cycle would have to be repeated. Personally, I’d prefer this over a portable generator in an emergency if that was my only other option.

I have a 2KW Inverter in the house that I never use. I have thought about adding it so that if I wanted to run 1 portable 1500 KW heater I could. I could also run smaller watt heaters and run it now.

In EKKO, engine should start automatically when batteries get low; so owner shouldn’t have to get out of warm bed.

mmmm, that is what my generator does but I get it. For me that would be my favorite part of the EKKO

And this assumes a winter storm “and” owner ran out of propane. This should be rare. I’d be more worried about air conditioning in summer.

For this point, it explains why I have all the affection for my generator. Early on, we almost bought a RV with one AC. This site tended to favor I scrap ideas of trying to add a 2nd AC and just buy a unit with two. We live in the Texas heat. I will never forget we sat in a brand new 27B (with 2 AC units) and after 3 hours it still could not overcome the heat (just sitting in the open lot) They said they would check it out, as it may have had a fixable issue, but my point was 1 unit was NEVER an option for us. We do drive sometimes with genset running and both ACs on. I like how when we get to a campsite and the genset is running, it stays running when chassis engine if off. When I finally get everything set and hookup to shore power, the genset turns itself automatically. Green to me is the energy saved from not having to push that stop button in favor of opening a cold beer

See above

btw, my brother has one of those souped up Sprinters from Midwest RV. It has a Onan 2.8 Propane genset and it is loud as hell. He never use. He would love this Ekko or the technology, and I would too if I was looking at something smaller like he as. So for this reason, I can see the value of where technology is going, but for next 5 years if anyone messes with my beloved Onan 5500 and EC-30 there will ^%$#@#

[Chance]

dkoldman, for what it’s worth, the new Onan 2800i is an inverter generator and is much quieter at partial loads than previous 2800- or 4000-Watt generators.

I want to clear one point. I like the size of the Winnebago EKKO, but I’m not a fan of Transit chassis. Between that and the front seats being too low, and too close together, I would probably not want to own one regardless. I’m simply using the EKKO as an example of how motorhomes can be built. Again, not for everyone. I’m not promoting the EKKO in any way, but I do like Winnebago building a small Class C/B+ that is just larger than a van.

The Coachmen Cross Trek came before the EKKO and is a very different type of motorhome — and much less expensive. Original Cross Trek had no generator and only 330 Amp-hour of AGM, which to me seems inadequate unless owner never runs air conditioner from batteries. The new optional 800 Ah of lithium addresses this issue, although at high cost.

In case of EKKO option, if I only traveled and camped in cool weather, I would no doubt trade generator for second 320 Ah battery. However, since we live in Texas and spend much time in Florida, a built-in 2800 Watt inverter generator could come in handy once in a while. The choice is tougher based on our summer needs.

I don’t want to hijack the thread, just making a case stating that what Gmthrust has done is certainly unusual, but it’s not crazy if he considered his energy use accurately.

[kwplot34]

I will stick with my built in generator and my Yamaha 2000i. With those the big engine and the solar panels (when I get around to mounting them) I should never have a power problem.

[Gmthrust]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

I will stick with my built in generator and my Yamaha 2000i. With those the big engine and the solar panels (when I get around to mounting them) I should never have a power problem.

Did you upgrade the stock batteries?

[Elite Washington]

I am all for these type of experiences it’s how we get the market to change. I would love it if things advanced by the time we buy our next coach that we didn’t need a generator or even propane as well. If you could get enough capacity to heat and cool a coach with just electric would be great.

[Gmthrust]

Originally Posted by Elite Washington

I am all for these type of experiences it’s how we get the market to change. I would love it if things advanced by the time we buy our next coach that we didn’t need a generator or even propane as well. If you could get enough capacity to heat and cool a coach with just electric would be great.

Check out Thors experimentation with Volta. Not sure where they stand with it but it dumps the generator and adds Volta lithium power system and solar. Looked intriguing.

[Bob Denman]

I seem to vaguely recall LazyDays having a Volta-equipped Tiffin for sale once.
It was SCARY expensive!