Omni/Magnitude front cap fix

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by chunker21

I posted the question about cap construction on a Dynamax forum and got this reply.

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ml#post2660689

Sounds a bit more substantial to me.

I followed that link and read what was posted on how the Dynamax cap is fastened and a big smile came across my face. SS fasteners like I used and not cheap self tapping screws like Thor uses. Sounds like they attach their cap the same way I am fixing the mess Thor left for us.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Judge

I just found a 2021 Isata 5 on order listed at a dealer in Ohio that is much less than some similar Omni / Magnitudes..

As I have stated in other threads about quality....... price does not and should not impact quality and workmanship when it comes to the assembly process.

The price differences between a Thor Super C, a Dynmax Super C, Jayco Super C, Entegra Super C or a Renagde Super C should come down to the "bling" factor.

Length differences will impact material costs. So will the choice of chassis. But after that the way the house is constructed should not be significantly different. A Thor line worker isn't making $10/hour while a Dynamax line worker is not making $30/hour. The assembly process should still be similar using similar techniques all things being equal... such as using bolts to attach a front cap versus sheet metal screws.

Then the paint job, cabinets, counter tops, choice of appliances, HVAC etc. is what should be making the differences in price of a Magnitude compared to a Renegade.

A 2022 SV34 for $263K should not have crappy quality and workmanship compared to a 2022 Isata 5 at $276K.

Say it isn't so. You mean there are quality built coaches out there for about the same price or less than Thor? Well that shoots a hole in the entry level price gets you entry level workmanship.
I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to straighten this out and shed some light on it for us. Or maybe they should quite making excuses for Thor and admit, Thor is lazy, they don't give a crap about the crappy built product they shove out the door and their employee's have no talent and no pride in their work. I could go on but one of the usual suspects would come along with his dead horse meme.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

Say it isn't so. You mean there are quality built coaches out there for about the same price or less than Thor? Well that shoots a hole in the entry level price gets you entry level workmanship.
I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to straighten this out and shed some light on it for us. Or maybe they should quite making excuses for Thor and admit, Thor is lazy, they don't give a crap about the crappy built product they shove out the door and their employee's have no talent and no pride in their work. I could go on but one of the usual suspects would come along with his dead horse meme.

Yep but got a question for some Omni/Magnitude owners. Weights. What is the CCC for those models. I checked mine and it's 2193#. HOW is that figured. I have asked a number of dealers and they have contacted factory reps and the answer varies. Seems either no standard for factory applied motorhomes, or no one knows. Answers I have received is from totally empty to full fuel and 4 people. Those answers come from different makes, Entegra, Their and Winnebago.

I am having some discussions with a Dynamax factory rep on the Dynamax forum who stated the average CCC for the Isata 5 34DS is 13-1400#. Average front and rear are 6700 and 11,200. That's somewhat less than what I have but I'm shorter by 2' than the 34DS. BUT better builds weigh more. Judge, others with the bigger models, what do your's weigh, CCC?

Me I can sacrifice CCC for better construction, to a point.

Hope this post isn't lost in the thread and wonder if it would have been better to make it a separate thread. Mods if you think so, please let me know and I'll make it a fresh post. Thanks

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Yep but got a question for some Omni/Magnitude owners. Weights. What is the CCC for those models. I checked mine and it's 2193#. HOW is that figured. I have asked a number of dealers and they have contacted factory reps and the answer varies. Seems either no standard for factory applied motorhomes, or no one knows. Answers I have received is from totally empty to full fuel and 4 people. Those answers come from different makes, Entegra, Their and Winnebago.

I am having some discussions with a Dynamax factory rep on the Dynamax forum who stated the average CCC for the Isata 5 34DS is 13-1400#. Average front and rear are 6700 and 11,200. That's somewhat less than what I have but I'm shorter by 2' than the 34DS. BUT better builds weigh more. Judge, others with the bigger models, what do your's weigh, CCC?

Me I can sacrifice CCC for better construction, to a point.

Hope this post isn't lost in the thread and wonder if it would have been better to make it a separate thread. Mods if you think so, please let me know and I'll make it a fresh post. Thanks

I would have to check on my XG32 to see what CCC is, never looked and I have never weighed mine, just hasn't been a priority.
Your conversation will most likely get lost and not seen, it would probably be better to copy your post and start a new thread on it.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

I would have to check on my XG32 to see what CCC is, never looked and I have never weighed mine, just hasn't been a priority.
Your conversation will most likely get lost and not seen, it would probably be better to copy your post and start a new thread on it.

Just got home, I'll do that and hopefully that won't violate a rule of "double post".

[Gmthrust]

I come from the flying world and cargo carrying capacity is important but it means nothing if you aren’t given the vehicles weight to start with. I am only concerned about my max gross vehicle weight. When I go to the scale I get my vehicles weight. That’s where I start. I can then figure how much fuel, water, black and gray water I’m capable of holding…Or, of I have to reduce the fuel, water…
It may be important to someone who is looking to buy and have a bunch of stuff they want to take. If that’s the case then disregard all of the above.��

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Gmthrust

I come from the flying world and cargo carrying capacity is important but it means nothing if you aren’t given the vehicles weight to start with. I am only concerned about my max gross vehicle weight. When I go to the scale I get my vehicles weight. That’s where I start. I can then figure how much fuel, water, black and gray water I’m capable of holding…Or, of I have to reduce the fuel, water…
It may be important to someone who is looking to buy and have a bunch of stuff they want to take. If that’s the case then disregard all of the above.��

Also from flying, 45 years helicopters military and civil. For the RV I want an empty weighing and then loaded for travel. On the Omni I didn't do an empty but did at about 90% travel weight. When I had my previous toy hauler 5th wheel, I did weigh empty, then later on a trip. It was important because I was trying to control pin weight and since toy haulers are typically heaviest on the pin with the garage empty, loading was important.

That isn't critical with the Omni but I make that statement based on a trip to the scales. I wouldn't have know that without the ticket.

[kwplot34]

I need to run mine across a scale some day when we are on a trip, fully loaded with what we usually take and the trailer in tow with the Kawasaki Teryx on it.
I haven't worried to much about it because we pretty much have everything loaded on the Omni that we had loaded on our previous coach a 2016 31L on the E450 and we still had a few 100lbs left over.

[kwplot34]

The aluminum frame and pedestal is all welded up now, and that is some of the thinnest, crappiest aluminum I have ever come across it was no easy task welding on it. It is much sturdier now and will not bend and flop over under it's own weight so that's a bonus.
Will get some new paneling for each side and some much better foam to put in the core tomorrow and start putting it all back together.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

The aluminum frame and pedestal is all welded up now, and that is some of the thinnest, crappiest aluminum I have ever come across it was no easy task welding on it. It is much sturdier now and will not bend and flop over under it's own weight so that's a bonus.
Will get some new paneling for each side and some much better foam to put in the core tomorrow and start putting it all back together.

That one shot does make it look like some pretty thin aluminum. Nice job welding it.... that had to be no easy task given it is so thin.

It's just a shame that what should be one of Thor's higher-end Class C coaches is assembled poorly with the cheapest possible materials. After reading how the Dynamax front cap is attached, there is no excuse for Thor's approach other than laziness and a lack of really caring about their products..

But looks like the race is almost over and you can finally see the finish line. Very impressive work!

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

That one shot does make it look like some pretty thin aluminum. Nice job welding it.... that had to be no easy task given it is so thin.

It's just a shame that what should be one of Thor's higher-end Class C coaches is assembled poorly with the cheapest possible materials. After reading how the Dynamax front cap is attached, there is no excuse for Thor's approach other than laziness and a lack of really caring about their products..

But looks like the race is almost over and you can finally see the finish line. Very impressive work!

I'm going to speculate that is the reason the Omni/magnitude has as much CCC as it does. When looking at what I got on the Isata 5 which is a similar ranked chassis but obviously made with better and strong materials thus weighing more. When we weigh we focus on how much and where can we carry cargo. What we can't see is the under structure of components supporting and carrying the CCC. When I was looking any various 5th wheels I avoided anything with light/lite/half-ton towable/etc. Underbuilt and flimsy.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Judge

That one shot does make it look like some pretty thin aluminum. Nice job welding it.... that had to be no easy task given it is so thin.

It's just a shame that what should be one of Thor's higher-end Class C coaches is assembled poorly with the cheapest possible materials. After reading how the Dynamax front cap is attached, there is no excuse for Thor's approach other than laziness and a lack of really caring about their products..

But looks like the race is almost over and you can finally see the finish line. Very impressive work!

Getting close to the finish line, assembling the frame today got the bottom covered with paneling and better foam core glued in and will attach the new paneling on top tomorrow, I will get some pics of it tomorrow.
But yes, Thor uses some of the thinnest, cheapest materials I have ever seen and cut a lot of corners on assembly.
I will need to empty the coach of everything we have put in it and weigh the coach, I bet some of that CCC has gone down, but that's fine at least it's put together properly now.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by chunker21

I'm going to speculate that is the reason the Omni/magnitude has as much CCC as it does. When looking at what I got on the Isata 5 which is a similar ranked chassis but obviously made with better and strong materials thus weighing more. When we weigh we focus on how much and where can we carry cargo. What we can't see is the under structure of components supporting and carrying the CCC. When I was looking any various 5th wheels I avoided anything with light/lite/half-ton towable/etc. Underbuilt and flimsy.

I don't mind giving up some CCC to have a coach assembled with quality material.
Thor needs to pull their heads out of their BUTT's and start doing it right.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Bear with me on this...

I have read many places that the primary reason Ford switched to Aluminum F-150 bodies is weight. Reduction in weight with the SAME structural strength/integrity yields better CCC... which includes loading it up with those VERY profitable bells and whistles.

The same principles of weight reduction to gain CCC applies to motorhomes. Somehow, Ford has figured out how to reduce weight without compromised build quality. And, the price of the truck didn't hit the stratosphere solely because of the aluminum body... the "trim levels" created by adding profitable trinkets created the $75,000 truck... not the aluminum.

I have an "entry level" F-150. It's fairly basic. But it's built EXACTLY like the $75,000 King Ranch... mine just lacks some of the "amenities"... but structurally it's the SAME TRUCK.

Can you imagine people complaining about seats falling apart or bumpers falling off of their "entry level" trucks? ..."Oh, you shouldn't have bought that "entry level" truck - the King Ranch bumpers don't fall off."

So to me, claiming "entry level" on a lower end motorhome, when the high end motorhomes - from the SAME manufacturer - are built with the same glue and staples seems a little disingenuous. And the above "Ford story" proves that with a little ingenuity, a motorhome COULD be built both lightweight AND structurally sound without drastically increasing the price.

All that being said... NO ONE has come along and knocked Thor off their "glue and staples" throne. Maybe it's because Thor just buys up the competition before that happens?? cough cough Tiffin...

[kwplot34]

My 2020 Chevy RST is built the same structurally as my top trim level LTZ the only difference other than price is all the extra bells and whistles the LTZ has and they're both built structurally the same as the LT and custom. Lower price and entry level does not mean that you should have a lesser built vehicle or RV, I see it as just an excuse to use as to why the Thor coaches are built with such poor quality, when the only difference in price should just be bells and whistles.
Too many on here make excuses for Thor's poor quality, entry level, I say BS, I think they're just lazy and have no pride and their employee's are just as bad.

[kwplot34]

Got the frame put back together with new paneling on each side and a better foam core, then installed the pedestal that it mounts on, used 1/4" bolts to mount it with 1" fender washers and poly lock nuts on the front side of the pedestal where it mounts to the cab is pretty weak so I ran a 3/16" x 1" wide aluminum strip under the cab sheet metal to stiffen that area up, it's pretty solid now. Covered the bottom of the cap with insulation and mounted the frame with # sheet metal screws, took a page from the Dynamax thread Chunker21 started and put wood down the center of the aluminum tubes to give the screws something else to bite into. Ran some camper shell foam seal across the top of the aluminum stringers and an expanding foam around the outer edge that will help support the edges of the frame, that frame is pretty solid now with very little flex, before it would move down about 1" just pushing on it.

[kwplot34]

And just like that, this job is done
I am very happy with the way it turned out and very confident that the cap will not come loose again and the bouncing and noise from the cap is gone now, most of it from the frame bouncing up and down. While I had everything apart I ran 2 wires to the front vent so I can install a MAXXAIRE fan there next spring.
Going to take it for a drive tomorrow to make sure everything is good. It should be nice and quiet up there now.

[kwplot34]

Next. Check out the heating ducts in the floor so air doesn't blow under the vinyl flooring and run the bore scope down them and look for light coming through cracks, yesterday while working in the coach I could feel cold air blowing up through the front vent, it was pretty wendy yesterday so its coming in from somewhere, if I can't find the leak with the bore scope I will get the smoke machine out and find it that way.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

And just like that, this job is done
I am very happy with the way it turned out and very confident that the cap will not come loose again and the bouncing and noise from the cap is gone now, most of it from the frame bouncing up and down. While I had everything apart I ran 2 wires to the front vent so I can install a MAXXAIRE fan there next spring.
Going to take it for a drive tomorrow to make sure everything is good. It should be nice and quiet up there now.

What a great job Kevin! You should be proud of your work and happy with the results for sure!

You did a major repair and upgrade in about 3 weeks. I can say without a doubt you did a far better job than Thor, any dealer and most RV speciality shops could have done. The quality and workmanship of your efforts is unprecedented in the RV world as far as I'm concerned.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Judge

What a great job Kevin! You should be proud of your work and happy with the results for sure!

You did a major repair and upgrade in about 3 weeks. I can say without a doubt you did a far better job than Thor, any dealer and most RV speciality shops could have done. The quality and workmanship of your efforts is unprecedented in the RV world as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you Judge!
It really was not that hard of a job to take on just time consuming, worked on it almost everyday and when I did work on it I usually spent about 5 hours on it.
I'm pretty sure I did a much better and thorough job than Thor could of done fixing it and I know I took extra steps along the way they would not of done or like you said any other shop and what better time to do the extras than right now.
Looking forward to the drive tomorrow to see how much quieter it's going to be, and give the coach a much needed bath. Going to get the polish and machine after it next year and apply Graphene like I have done on our other cars.
BTW, Graphene is the bomb, it's a little expensive, but last years longer than wax and with the new Graphene wash soap that's out from Adam's it should extend the protection a little longer.