Thor quality.

[Edensob]

Seems to me that there is a market out there for people to sell their talents as MH inspectors. Regardless how much ranting goes on here, it won't make any difference to Thor or any other manufacturer for that matter. Now what would make a difference is if the distributors (dealers), continually have new MH's that fail independent inspections due to poor construction practices across the nation, then the manufacturers will finally take notice and improve their quality. Dealers will either be forced to make repairs, change who the manufacturers they represent, and/or send the feedback to manufacturer that their new units are being highly scrutinized and are failing consistently. I can guarantee one thing, the manufactures will definitely take notice once their sales fall dramatically. As for the used market, inspections gives the perspective new owner a great set of objective eyes that understand MH's, and what they are purchasing. If you parallel it to a real estate home inspection it makes a lot more sense, especially given the amount of money being invested. Just some food for thought.

[jabrabu]

As a data point, here is a list of problems I've experienced on my 2018 Chateau 31E. Lots of small stuff, but also some big items like the levelers not working, the generator failing, the slideout not working, the wing walls de-laminating, and the bottom of the main storage compartment rotting out. Thankfully I can fix most stuff myself, but there is usually something I need to fix after every trip. It will be going into the shop in a few weeks to fix some structural items like the overhead cap not being properly secured to the cab, and some slideout repairs and alignment.
Someone wrote that the design is good but the construction is poor, but I think that even the design is poor. Most of the interior construction is just particle board screwed together, and after tens of thousands of miles of shaking on the road stuff just falls apart. The mud flaps were just supported by a couple of small sheet metal screws that ripped out on the first trip.
]I've also done a lot of upgrades to make it nicer to drive. Big swaybars, a steering controller, new shocks, rear helper springs, custom alignment. Also installed sound dampening and insulation in the doghouse and cab floor and installed carpet in the cab. And replaced the stereo and speakers.


- Expanding foam crumbled in left side stowage compartment
o Applied new expanding foam and painted black
· Trim at front of slide was loose when new
o Glued/sealed with silicone adhesive
· Bottom of drawers popped out in kitchen and bedroom
o Fixed drawers with glue and staples
· Hinges ripped out for stowage under bed
o Installed new screws
· Mud flaps in front of rear tires – supports ripped out.
o Used zip ties to secure flaps
o Installed screws and covered with gorilla tape
· Water leaking inside from under slide
o Tightened fitting on water heater
· Compartment doors over sofa come open while driving
o Installed magnetic latches
· Weatherstripping in stowage compartment by entry door came out, leaving gaps to outside.
o Re-installed weatherstripping and sealed with gorilla tape
o Gorilla tape came off, so sealed it with Flex Seal
· Auto leveling jacks failed with a “low voltage” error
o Repaired by fixing battery grounds
· Metal bar came off front right window blind
o Blind replaced under warranty
· Kitchen window blind would not stay closed
o Blind replaced under warranty
· Generator wiring conduit melted on generator exhaust pipe
o Wrapped housing with friction tape and secured to frame using zip ties
o Conduit was replaced during later generator repair
· Generator cranks but will not start
o Had ignition coil and control module replaced under warranty
o Also replaced melted conduit
· Track for bedroom sliding door ripped out of overhead
o Secured with new screws and additional screws
· Trim over front of dinette bench lifted
o Glued down with Titebond
· Rear bedroom window valence/shade fell off
o Re-attached with larger screws
· Intermittent propane smell
o Camping World found a leak at regulator and repaired it
· Coach wing walls delaminated underneath coach
o Wing walls replaced under warranty (Oct 2018)
· Slide stops half-way while retracting (intermittently)
o Re-synced motors, but still happens occasionally (Oct 2018)
o Camping World did adjustment (Dec 2018), working okay for now
· Fuse for bedroom, hallway, and kitchen light keeps blowing (Oct 2018)
o Camping World repaired electrical short (Jan 2019)
· Light under awning not working (noticed after wing wall replacement) (Oct 2018)
o Camping World replaced LED light strip (Jan 2019)
· Interior decorative trim fell off upper right of slideout
o Re-glued it (Oct 2018)
· Rear window blind will not stay down
o Received replacement from Thor and installed it (Nov 2018)
· Kitchen window blind will not stay down (2nd time) (Nov 2018)
· All propane stopped working (Nov 2018)
o Replaced regulator with an MB Sturgis regulator
o Discovered holes in hose to grill connection – probably chewed by squirrels
o Replaced hose and installed squirrel guard on portion of hose inside wheel well
· Battery hold-down straps broke (Dec 2018)
o Replaced straps with new ones, which broke after one trip
o Replaced them with Atwood straps (Jan 2019)
· Battery disconnect switch not working (Jan 2019)
o Replaced relay assembly
· Cannot insert key into entry door lock (Jan 2019)
o Installed new entry door latch/lock (April 2019)
· Left front tire had excessive inner tread wear (June 2019)
o Got alignment done
o Replaced tire with new Hankook Dynapro HT
· Wood panel at side of front dinette bench fell off (Aug 2019)
o Installed bolts to re-secure it (was just screws into particle board)
· Inside rear tire driver’s side went flat. This also caused excessive wear on outer tire. (Aug 2019)
o Replaced inside rear tire as an emergency repair during trip (Cooper Discoverer HT3)
o Replaced outer tire later at home (Hankook Dynapro HT)
· Inside right rear tire blew out (Oct 2019)
o Emergency repaired with a Sailun Terramax tire
· Slideout would not extend (May 2020). Front motor failed.
o Both slideout motors were replaced
· Fridge will not operate on AC power (green light gives 3 flashes) (June 2020)
o Replaced AC heater element
· Rear bedroom vent fan will not turn on (June 2020)
o Replaced circuit board
· Generator exhaust hanger came off
o Reattached to RV using larger screw, and tightened exhaust clamp at muffler
· Check engine light (July 2020). Codes for Bank 1 Catalyst Below Threshold and Evaporative Control System Leak.
o Century Ford replaced purge valve and an elbow fitting that was chewed by a squirrel.
o However, check engine light came back on 2 days later with same codes.
o Catalytic converter and an O2 sensor were replaced August 2020.
· Front right tire had tread cupping and lots of road noise (July 2020).
o Replaced front tires with General Grabber HTS
o Got an alignment done, including installing camber/caster bushings
· Main stowage compartment floor rotted & delaminated (Aug 2020).
o Replaced with new exterior grade plywood, new vinyl flooring, and sealed with weatherstripping, expanding foam, and caulk.
· Outer right rear tire had a blowout. Sept. 2020, `48,000 miles
o Replaced both rear right tires
· Cabinet door over fridge fell apart
o Glued it back together
· Wooden grate under fridge cracked
o Glued it back together
· Received low voltage errors at leveler panel (May 2021)
o Believe to be batteries not holding charge
o Replaced batteries with DuraLast RV deep cycle flooded batteries
o Problem not resolved, it appears that the coach batteries are not charging from the alternator.
o Replaced the Trombetta relay, problem fixed
· Trim board over bedroom sliding door came off multiple times
o Glued and screwed it back on
· Microwave oven fell off the wall (Aug 2021)
o Reattached with larger screws and nails
· Check engine light with code P2247 (O2 sensor bank 2 sensor 1), (Nov 2021)
o Replaced left front O2 sensor

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Edensob

Seems to me that there is a market out there for people to sell their talents as MH inspectors. Regardless how much ranting goes on here, it won't make any difference to Thor or any other manufacturer for that matter. Now what would make a difference is if the distributors (dealers), continually have new MH's that fail independent inspections due to poor construction practices across the nation, then the manufacturers will finally take notice and improve their quality. Dealers will either be forced to make repairs, change who the manufacturers they represent, and/or send the feedback to manufacturer that their new units are being highly scrutinized and are failing consistently. I can guarantee one thing, the manufactures will definitely take notice once their sales fall dramatically. As for the used market, inspections gives the perspective new owner a great set of objective eyes that understand MH's, and what they are purchasing. If you parallel it to a real estate home inspection it makes a lot more sense, especially given the amount of money being invested. Just some food for thought.

I have thought about offering these types of services and even doing new owner training as some supplemental retirment income. My wife has been telling me this the past few years and even more often with all the newbies who have jumped in.

[EA37TS]

And what’s even more tiring is people constantly comparing RVs to technology and automobiles. Those industries have Published and accepted quality standards that manufacturers try to meet in order to compete. The RV industry has no such standards.

Until such time as there is a published and accepted quality standard Thor does not have a quality problem and any perceived quality problems are the person’s personal opinion. There is, however, a serious problem in the level of craftsmanship in TMC units. And that is interesting because Thor often mentions being located in Amish country and the Amish are known for their workmanship.

Fact of life: Thor Motor Coach is and always will be cheap and in order to remain that way they will continue to hire entry level untrained employees, institute cheap manufacturing techniques that use the cheapest products possible, and continue to push lower grade workmanship out to the dealers chomping at the bit to make a profit off the sales to customers that don’t have a clue about what to look at when doing a walk through and assume they will get quality service after sale.

Remember, Thor’s number one obligation is to their shareholders and not to their customers, who by the way are dealers and not RV owners. Until people walk away and leave dealers suffering with inventory they can’t sell nothing will change. And folks walking away is not going to happen any time soon.

[ducksface]

Yes, the
Kit
Entry level
Take responsibility
Seems to inflame...those who have inflamed themselves through lack of the slightest, smallest, infinitesimal amount of self concern before purchase.

NOT ONE of those would EVER be typed here had they bothered to do even a 5 minute search of information before they bought maybe the biggest purchase of their life.

I'll all but guarantee a mere typing of their THOR rv of choice sends them to this forum within their 5 minute search where they would have read
Kit
Entry level
Take responsibility
and
could have used those terms to affect their decisions.

We're here to help, not commiserate.

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by jabrabu

As a data point, here is a list of problems I've experienced on my 2018 Chateau 31E. Lots of small stuff, but also some big items like the levelers not working, the generator failing, the slideout not working, the wing walls de-laminating, and the bottom of the main storage compartment rotting out. Thankfully I can fix most stuff myself, but there is usually something I need to fix after every trip. It will be going into the shop in a few weeks to fix some structural items like the overhead cap not being properly secured to the cab, and some slideout repairs and alignment.
Someone wrote that the design is good but the construction is poor, but I think that even the design is poor. Most of the interior construction is just particle board screwed together, and after tens of thousands of miles of shaking on the road stuff just falls apart. The mud flaps were just supported by a couple of small sheet metal screws that ripped out on the first trip.
]I've also done a lot of upgrades to make it nicer to drive. Big swaybars, a steering controller, new shocks, rear helper springs, custom alignment. Also installed sound dampening and insulation in the doghouse and cab floor and installed carpet in the cab. And replaced the stereo and speakers.


- Expanding foam crumbled in left side stowage compartment
o Applied new expanding foam and painted black
· Trim at front of slide was loose when new
o Glued/sealed with silicone adhesive
· Bottom of drawers popped out in kitchen and bedroom
o Fixed drawers with glue and staples
· Hinges ripped out for stowage under bed
o Installed new screws
· Mud flaps in front of rear tires – supports ripped out.
o Used zip ties to secure flaps
o Installed screws and covered with gorilla tape
· Water leaking inside from under slide
o Tightened fitting on water heater
· Compartment doors over sofa come open while driving
o Installed magnetic latches
· Weatherstripping in stowage compartment by entry door came out, leaving gaps to outside.
o Re-installed weatherstripping and sealed with gorilla tape
o Gorilla tape came off, so sealed it with Flex Seal
· Auto leveling jacks failed with a “low voltage” error
o Repaired by fixing battery grounds
· Metal bar came off front right window blind
o Blind replaced under warranty
· Kitchen window blind would not stay closed
o Blind replaced under warranty
· Generator wiring conduit melted on generator exhaust pipe
o Wrapped housing with friction tape and secured to frame using zip ties
o Conduit was replaced during later generator repair
· Generator cranks but will not start
o Had ignition coil and control module replaced under warranty
o Also replaced melted conduit
· Track for bedroom sliding door ripped out of overhead
o Secured with new screws and additional screws
· Trim over front of dinette bench lifted
o Glued down with Titebond
· Rear bedroom window valence/shade fell off
o Re-attached with larger screws
· Intermittent propane smell
o Camping World found a leak at regulator and repaired it
· Coach wing walls delaminated underneath coach
o Wing walls replaced under warranty (Oct 2018)
· Slide stops half-way while retracting (intermittently)
o Re-synced motors, but still happens occasionally (Oct 2018)
o Camping World did adjustment (Dec 2018), working okay for now
· Fuse for bedroom, hallway, and kitchen light keeps blowing (Oct 2018)
o Camping World repaired electrical short (Jan 2019)
· Light under awning not working (noticed after wing wall replacement) (Oct 2018)
o Camping World replaced LED light strip (Jan 2019)
· Interior decorative trim fell off upper right of slideout
o Re-glued it (Oct 2018)
· Rear window blind will not stay down
o Received replacement from Thor and installed it (Nov 2018)
· Kitchen window blind will not stay down (2nd time) (Nov 2018)
· All propane stopped working (Nov 2018)
o Replaced regulator with an MB Sturgis regulator
o Discovered holes in hose to grill connection – probably chewed by squirrels
o Replaced hose and installed squirrel guard on portion of hose inside wheel well
· Battery hold-down straps broke (Dec 2018)
o Replaced straps with new ones, which broke after one trip
o Replaced them with Atwood straps (Jan 2019)
· Battery disconnect switch not working (Jan 2019)
o Replaced relay assembly
· Cannot insert key into entry door lock (Jan 2019)
o Installed new entry door latch/lock (April 2019)
· Left front tire had excessive inner tread wear (June 2019)
o Got alignment done
o Replaced tire with new Hankook Dynapro HT
· Wood panel at side of front dinette bench fell off (Aug 2019)
o Installed bolts to re-secure it (was just screws into particle board)
· Inside rear tire driver’s side went flat. This also caused excessive wear on outer tire. (Aug 2019)
o Replaced inside rear tire as an emergency repair during trip (Cooper Discoverer HT3)
o Replaced outer tire later at home (Hankook Dynapro HT)
· Inside right rear tire blew out (Oct 2019)
o Emergency repaired with a Sailun Terramax tire
· Slideout would not extend (May 2020). Front motor failed.
o Both slideout motors were replaced
· Fridge will not operate on AC power (green light gives 3 flashes) (June 2020)
o Replaced AC heater element
· Rear bedroom vent fan will not turn on (June 2020)
o Replaced circuit board
· Generator exhaust hanger came off
o Reattached to RV using larger screw, and tightened exhaust clamp at muffler
· Check engine light (July 2020). Codes for Bank 1 Catalyst Below Threshold and Evaporative Control System Leak.
o Century Ford replaced purge valve and an elbow fitting that was chewed by a squirrel.
o However, check engine light came back on 2 days later with same codes.
o Catalytic converter and an O2 sensor were replaced August 2020.
· Front right tire had tread cupping and lots of road noise (July 2020).
o Replaced front tires with General Grabber HTS
o Got an alignment done, including installing camber/caster bushings
· Main stowage compartment floor rotted & delaminated (Aug 2020).
o Replaced with new exterior grade plywood, new vinyl flooring, and sealed with weatherstripping, expanding foam, and caulk.
· Outer right rear tire had a blowout. Sept. 2020, `48,000 miles
o Replaced both rear right tires
· Cabinet door over fridge fell apart
o Glued it back together
· Wooden grate under fridge cracked
o Glued it back together
· Received low voltage errors at leveler panel (May 2021)
o Believe to be batteries not holding charge
o Replaced batteries with DuraLast RV deep cycle flooded batteries
o Problem not resolved, it appears that the coach batteries are not charging from the alternator.
o Replaced the Trombetta relay, problem fixed
· Trim board over bedroom sliding door came off multiple times
o Glued and screwed it back on
· Microwave oven fell off the wall (Aug 2021)
o Reattached with larger screws and nails
· Check engine light with code P2247 (O2 sensor bank 2 sensor 1), (Nov 2021)
o Replaced left front O2 sensor

wow: sorry for your experience; our list: 2021 Aria
1: kitchen drawer not adjusted
2: faulty turbo sensor ( Frieghtliner)
3: shower door leak
4: noisy entry door.

Totally happy with the product and service Thor has provided. But we have not had any real issue.

[Beau388]

First point is Thor MC coaches are built to dealers orders. No coach leaves the factory lot without being fully paid for by the dealer. All coaches are delivered with a delivery checklist specifying the checks to be performed before the coach is offered for resale. For instance the coaches are winterized and the waste system is not checked at the factory. It is up to the dealer to completely check-out the coach and send in the completed delivery checklist to the factory in order for the factory to evaluate their quality problems and authorize warenty repairs. On the last tour of plant 750 (2018), I had the opportunity to go up to the electrical department and see the build boards and the check-out computer for the wiring harnesses. One of the plant managers came by and we spent time discussing what I thought of my coach, as plant was discontinuing my floor plan. He made the statement that of the 2,500+ coaches made by plant 750 in the model year 2016, less than 500 had any warranty charges by the dealer or owner and the average for warranty repairs were less than $300.

My total warranty charges paid by Thor MC were: $75 to a mobile tech to show me where the front cap circuit breaker was located, $88 to replace the awning lights and $55 to replace the 120 volt wiring connections to the water heater relay. I am happy to report after 44,234 miles all is still working perfectly in my Hurricane. Did I make upgrades to my coach, sure; but then, I have never owned a car or house that I have not significantly upgraded.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

And what’s even more tiring is people constantly comparing RVs to technology and automobiles. Those industries have Published and accepted quality standards that manufacturers try to meet in order to compete. The RV industry has no such standards.

Until such time as there is a published and accepted quality standard Thor does not have a quality problem and any perceived quality problems are the person’s personal opinion. There is, however, a serious problem in the level of craftsmanship in TMC units. And that is interesting because Thor often mentions being located in Amish country and the Amish are known for their workmanship.

Fact of life: Thor Motor Coach is and always will be cheap and in order to remain that way they will continue to hire entry level untrained employees, institute cheap manufacturing techniques that use the cheapest products possible, and continue to push lower grade workmanship out to the dealers chomping at the bit to make a profit off the sales to customers that don’t have a clue about what to look at when doing a walk through and assume they will get quality service after sale.

Remember, Thor’s number one obligation is to their shareholders and not to their customers, who by the way are dealers and not RV owners. Until people walk away and leave dealers suffering with inventory they can’t sell nothing will change. And folks walking away is not going to happen any time soon.

The number one obligation for any company is to their shareholders (whether publicly traded o privately held). This doesn't apply only to Thor. There are plenty of stocks I own where the companies provide quality products and still deliver a good value to me as an investor.

So why is the RV industry different? The RV industry automatically gets a pass just because that's the way it's always been?

And besides published safety standards by government oversight... can you point me to industry published "Quality Standards" for an auto manufacturer?

Seems to me you spent a fair amount of money on an Accolade Super C and if memory serves me..... it had to have the slide removed, realigned and repainted? Was that acceptable just because you paid more than I did for my Magnitude?

I could probably even argue now that I got better value for what I paid for my Magnitude versus what you paid.

- Thor fixed my front cap issue under warranty.

- I chose to replace the Swintek Slide Mechanism with the Vroom so that added $2500 to my total cost.

- Yes... I did many repairs on my own because of poor quality and workmanship and while I may have a lot of labor in repairs, the cost of parts were relatively minimal.

Upgrades and floor plans are a different story and a personal choice but even with what I spent, I'll bet my total investment is less than yours.

After the front cap repair and replacing the crappy Schwintek Slde Mechanism, my coach appears to be fairly solid after two years of work to get it there. Besides the slide, I had no issues during 2-months and 7200 miles of travel.

My chassis has also been rock solid. No DEF issues and nothing other than oil changes and state safety inspections in 20,000 miles. So I will tip my hat to Thor for selecting the F-550 as the foundation for their Super C.

But just because I paid less than you doesn't mean Thor shouldn't be delivering far less quality and workmanship than your coach. Because at the end of the day.....

The difference in price between a Magnitude and Accolade should be material costs for the added difference in length, a more expensive chassis, more solid surfaces, better solid wood cabinets, better appliances, etc. But there really should not be a vast difference in quality and workmanship.

After my $157,600 purchase price.... $2500 for the Vroom Slide System.... $1500 in my own repairs..... $7500 in upgrades that I chose to do..... at a total of $169,100 in direct costs, I could argue my coach is a better value now that I have addressed all of the quality and workmanship issues and the floor plan meets our needs.

[chunker21]

I knew thor was a substandard builder when I bought the omni. I knew I was going to have to spend considerable time fixing stuff that should have been built correctly originally. I knew that thor was the king of bling and as I put it recently the pauper of quality. I get frustrated and pissed when I see the bottom feeding parts in this and the poor way this parts are put together. But it's mine and for the time being we are stuck with each other. I'll fix what I can and may take the kwplot route for the cap. That depends what happens this spring. Course if someone rather naive came along and offered me a sizable sum, it would be theirs. But then I'd have to start over with SOB and who knows what I might end up with. Keep your enemies close so at least I know, or mostly know, what I have now.

[ducksface]

I believe if you buy the least expensive version of what you'll settle for, then ask for a discount on top of that, you shouldn't have a complaint.

If I buy day old bread, I don't get to bitch how it isn't fresh bread.
If I don't question why one loaf is $250,000 and another seemingly same is $85,000...then I screwed myself by having a life where no objectivity, no ability to compare, no worldly sense was ever cultivated.

If I buy rye bread, not knowing what rye bread is, and I dislike it, I discard it without thought of cost.
If the cheap bread needs salt to taste, I salt to taste.

If you don't like lentil soup and you know this due to experience with lentil soup, you don't buy lentil soup for a dollar.
Yet
With no experience, no self-education, no sense of idea or ideal, some here spent $250,000 THAT PUT THEM INTO A FINANCIAL SITUATION UNDESIRABLE, without knowing they didn't like lentil soup.

Let me summarize.
Fools rush in.
Some were obviously, undeniably, a fool.
We're here to help the fool become expert.

Don't come here with your self failure and wallow in it.
We're here to help.

(Pioneers get a bit of a break. If you bought an untested by time first year model, thanks for beta testing for the rest of us. I don't know who told you to buy a first year model of ANY product...but they were wrong)

[MJC62]

As TMC keeps buying up all the other MH manufactures we the consumer are having less and less choices to purchase a $100,000 + "entry level" coach. Sad thing is most new buyers have 0 experience with an RV and after the first bad malfunction they freak out and come to places like this forum looking for a quick fix.
Personally I think the Super Store Dealers are as much at fault as the mfgr. If they did their job as Beau388 describes half the POS motorhomes out there would have been repaired before they left the lot. I am a firm believer in buying local. Yes I could save some coin driving to (blank) dealer in (blank) but a local independent dealer needs repeat customers to keep the lights on so he is more apt to go out of his way to keep you happy.
Safe Travels
Mark

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by MJC62

As TMC keeps buying up all the other MH manufactures we the consumer are having less and less choices to purchase a $100,000 + "entry level" coach. Sad thing is most new buyers have 0 experience with an RV and after the first bad malfunction they freak out and come to places like this forum looking for a quick fix.
Personally I think the Super Store Dealers are as much at fault as the mfgr. If they did their job as Beau388 describes half the POS motorhomes out there would have been repaired before they left the lot. I am a firm believer in buying local. Yes I could save some coin driving to (blank) dealer in (blank) but a local independent dealer needs repeat customers to keep the lights on so he is more apt to go out of his way to keep you happy.
Safe Travels
Mark

TMC is not buying anyone. Thor Industries is doing the purchasing and the acquisitions are not being managed by TMC. There is a major and significant difference. TMC has nothing to do with the management or operation of Tiffin or Jayco and the Thor Motor Coach logo does not appear on any of units outside TMC control.

[chunker21]

Today I found a box on the back porch, was gone over the weekend, that was from thor. It's the wireless HDMI splitter unit that thor sent me under warranty. Why would thor send me an HDMI splitter under warranty you might ask? Good question! Because the highly trained and highly motivated workers, term worker used lightly, installed the main HDMI cable to the main TV with the end ripped off. Rather than go get an intact cable, he/she used the one that was suppled and tucked the ripped off ends up inside the valance out of sight, out of mind as far as thor factory was concerned. So tomorrow amongst other things I need to do, I'll install it. After I sweep up the styrofoam explosion bits at least.

[Bob Denman]

It might help to think of buying an RV more as buying an RV kit... it needs to be finished: constantly!

[ducksface]

You're right.
A slacker worked on that cable.
Want to know how to remedy it?
Stop babying slackers.

If your worthless nephew has been invited to your Thanksgiving dinner by your over tolerant sibling:
Tell them both NO.
OR
Learn to tolerate his work ethic without complaining of others with the same ethic.

Deep breath...look them both right in the eye...do it.

Unconditional love is the circumstance of dogs and their realm.
Instilling virtue and value into those in your charge is a mandate of every religion and ethic known to man, ever ever ever.

I bet you wish cable-boy had been raised differently.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ducksface

You're right.
A slacker worked on that cable.
Want to know how to remedy it?
Stop babying slackers.

If your worthless nephew has been invited to your Thanksgiving dinner by your over tolerant sibling:
Tell them both NO.
OR
Learn to tolerate his work ethic without complaining of others with the same ethic.

Unconditional love is the circumstance of dogs and their realm.
Instilling virtue and value into those in your charge is a mandate of every religion and ethic known to man, ever ever ever.

I bet you wish cable-boy had been raised differently.

So... I guess the CEO of Thor has "learned to tolerate his work ethic without complaining of others with the same ethic."?

Because... that CEO is the single individual who's ULTIMATELY responsible for EVERYTHING in the company - right down to who cleans the toilets in the break rooms.

Side note: I do the grocery shopping. While checking out yesterday, there was no "bag person", and the cashier was stopping to bag groceries. I always simply bag my own when that happens to relieve the cashier, and speed things up. No big deal.

While bagging, I noticed a young man about 25 feet away just standing "shooting the breeze" with another employee who was sweeping.

I asked the cashier where the store manager was. She sarcastically replied - "I have NO idea" - obviously frustrated.

I turned to the young man and said "You know, your cashiers COULD use a little help bagging... unless you're on your break - since you're on the clock - maybe you could pitch in and help?"

Yep... there was the cable boy... hopefully something "clicked".

Who was responsible? First in line - The store manager. ULTIMATELY, the Kroger CEO. No excuses!

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Judge

Hearing the "Entry Level" excuse all the time does get old...... and people tend to enjoy using that as an easy excuse.

Many consider Kia and Hyundai as "entry" level vehicles yet they offer 5-Year / 60,000 warranties and 10-year / 100,000 mile power train warranties. I know some people who've owned them and they aren't at the dealer constantly and they don't have parts falling off all over the place.

You can buy a $3 burger at Wendy's or buy a $15 burger at a high-end restaurant. There are standards where you don't have to worry about the $3 burger being ground up horse-meat.

I sell a technology solution that competes with Honeywell. One of the components of our solutions is 40% less than the equivalent Honeywell offering. Ours is manufactured in Germany. Their's is manufactured in China. The quality of ours is equal to and actually better than Honeywell.

It comes down to a company holding themselves to a higher-standard. Cheaper does not always.... or even have to.... equate to inferior.... or even junk for that matter. A well run company can find ways to optimize their operation to reduce expenses and offer a competitively priced product that is still well-constructed.

If a company won't hold themself to a higher standard, then it's up to the consumer to force their hand.

I also know plenty of people who shelled out significantly more than I did for my latest coach and bought what were supposed to be "better" brands (Entegra, Tiffin, Newmar, Dynamax) but they still had slide problems, water leaks, coaches that needed to be repainted, multiple trips to the dealer, etc. Paying more money also does not guarantee you won't get something with suspect quality and workmanship. It just means you spent more money and you may or may not have gotten a better product at the end of the day.

Agree! Our Hyundai Santa fe 4 cylinder pulled our 18 ft trailer for 50,000 miles in 3 years all over t he country zero issues. Would only buy a subaru or hyundai as car I think we sold it in 1 day

[Bob Denman]

Why did you sell it; if it was doing such a good job?

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Why did you sell it; if it was doing such a good job?

Subaru awd. It was front wheel in montana

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

So... I guess the CEO of Thor has "learned to tolerate his work ethic without complaining of others with the same ethic."?

Because... that CEO is the single individual who's ULTIMATELY responsible for EVERYTHING in the company - right down to who cleans the toilets in the break rooms.

Side note: I do the grocery shopping. While checking out yesterday, there was no "bag person", and the cashier was stopping to bag groceries. I always simply bag my own when that happens to relieve the cashier, and speed things up. No big deal.

While bagging, I noticed a young man about 25 feet away just standing "shooting the breeze" with another employee who was sweeping.

I asked the cashier where the store manager was. She sarcastically replied - "I have NO idea" - obviously frustrated.

I turned to the young man and said "You know, your cashiers COULD use a little help bagging... unless you're on your break - since you're on the clock - maybe you could pitch in and help?"

Yep... there was the cable boy... hopefully something "clicked".

Who was responsible? First in line - The store manager. ULTIMATELY, the Kroger CEO. No excuses!

Hey, I think I know those guys. The Store Manager has left to call the Police on the Bagger who had refused to go back to work. The Sweeper owned the Car for the Bagger's ride.