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Old 11-12-2021, 09:18 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS View Post
Please post the factual data that supports your statement. Who conducted the study to obtain the data and what was the criteria used to define the study.
You asked in your post "So who do you think is the "standard" builder?
All RVs are built the same assembly-line way with the same workers except for the high end manufacturers. They all have their problems"

I gave my opinion based on years of being around RVs and ownership of a variety of types and brands. I've also been to RV shows, dealerships around the country, some factory tours, and based on my observations and OPINION, thor branded RVs are the entry level they tout to their shareholders. Entry level build is substandard and I do regret my purchase. You are a staunch thor supporter and part of an apparent cheering squad, what do you feel their strong points are in structural build quality?

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Old 11-12-2021, 09:37 PM   #62
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You have cheering squad confused with those who accommodate ourselves by accommodating ourselves.

I bought a kit, not a Newell.
I KNEW the job was dangerous when I took it.
I/we tout or cheer nothing and no one,
We were eyes wide open.
We did not fail ourselves. Many did FAIL THEMSELVES .

My 24.1 is now four wheel drive and about 100 other things non-Thor. I saw the potential...and I exploit it.

Many did not sense potential.
They. Sensed. Nothing.
How some didn't see the cardboard countern, the ill-fit but serviceable trim, the slathered silicone, the cheap but servicable mudflap....this is mystery to those of us who saw it all and weighed, and decided, and compromised.

Some of you bought the cheapest, demanded a discount and expect Tiffany from k-mart.

Recently I bought a Newell type vintage car because I didn't want a project type vintage car. When I started bidding on that auction I didnt know if the hood opened forward or backwards. Before the auction ended I had found three mistakes in their governing body concours rules(it's a first place concours AND first place senior winner) and two mistakes in the 2550 page ford factory service book those mistakes having been there for 60 years. I have since in the two months of ownership found three assembly line markings not recorded. What did you know about your Thor before you bought it? Did you know it wasn't a concours vehicle? Why not?
I/we sure knew what Thor was. I used the same logic and discovery when buying the Thor as I did on that car.

I pondered, I fretted. I live by both of my decisions.
Thor project, vintage non-project. Same care. Same affect. Same happy. Same personal responsibility to beintelligent.
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Old 11-12-2021, 10:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy Roth View Post
We owned a 26' Tioga Arrow in 1981 for about 4 years and only recently bought a used 2017 Thor TT24 Sprinter. My agenda drove my choice and I looked for 4 months to find a Class C I could handle entirely on my own (my husband is recently disabled and I am 75) with twin beds (he needs to sleep upright) and reclining theater seats (so he can ride with his legs up) and a diesel engine. I knew I would be paying a premium for the many reasons everyone already knows and I was lucky to find exactly what I wanted only a 3 hour drive from our home. We have had our RV for 6 weeks and gone on 4 mini-trips. Our RV is meeting our purpose - to get my husband out of the house to safe places where he can be outside. I am clueless about a lot of the quality issues you are raising. All I know is that it works for me and how I am hoping to improve my husband's quality of life. I will continue to address the small things as they inevitably arise but for the present I am pleased with my choice and glad I made it.
You have done good, some folks go years and never get the Duck's Seal Approval. Quite a feat for newbie


You have also proven what one of the premiere quality experts use to teach to those in Engineering school. JM Juran says Quality is defined as "Fitness for use"; one can take what may have been defective parts specification wise from one process or operation and use for another mfg design application where it is now top grade material.
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Old 11-12-2021, 10:20 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
This is the nicest post I have read all year.
It's the very breath of why to have an rv.

Ask us everything. Rv spots, fuel tips, best/bad roads....
We'll do our best to make it warm and cozy here for you.
It will be an honor for me.
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Old 11-12-2021, 10:51 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS View Post
Please post the factual data that supports your statement. Who conducted the study to obtain the data and what was the criteria used to define the study.
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Old 11-12-2021, 11:23 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
You have cheering squad confused with those who accommodate ourselves by accommodating ourselves.

I bought a kit, not a Newell.
I KNEW the job was dangerous when I took it.
I/we tout or cheer nothing and no one,
We were eyes wide open.
We did not fail ourselves. Many did FAIL THEMSELVES .

My 24.1 is now four wheel drive and about 100 other things non-Thor. I saw the potential...and I exploit it.

Many did not sense potential.
They. Sensed. Nothing.
How some didn't see the cardboard countern, the ill-fit but serviceable trim, the slathered silicone, the cheap but servicable mudflap....this is mystery to those of us who saw it all and weighed, and decided, and compromised.

Some of you bought the cheapest, demanded a discount and expect Tiffany from k-mart.

Recently I bought a Newell type vintage car because I didn't want a project type vintage car. When I started bidding on that auction I didnt know if the hood opened forward or backwards. Before the auction ended I had found three mistakes in their governing body concours rules(it's a first place concours AND first place senior winner) and two mistakes in the 2550 page ford factory service book those mistakes having been there for 60 years. I have since in the two months of ownership found three assembly line markings not recorded. What did you know about your Thor before you bought it? Did you know it wasn't a concours vehicle? Why not?
I/we sure knew what Thor was. I used the same logic and discovery when buying the Thor as I did on that car.

I pondered, I fretted. I live by both of my decisions.
Thor project, vintage non-project. Same care. Same affect. Same happy. Same personal responsibility to beintelligent.
I read you post but I'm not sure what relevance it has to the discussion, but I've felt that with some of the other posts you've made.

So for me the horse is dead and I'll not use any attempt at humor or snippiness to try to revive it.
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Old 11-12-2021, 11:48 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
Yet I've seen some "Winnie-builds" that would curl you hair...
No Manufacturer is immune to poor quality control; but some may be a bit more resistant to it...
At one dealership in North Dallas area, I really pissed a Winnie Sales Rep off because while I was complaining about the price of a 29ve he wanted to show me a Minnie Winnie I told him, I didn't care how great a Minnie Winnie might be, and how cheap it may cost, I was never gonna get pass the fact that I would have to tell people I bought a Minnie Winnie. That is just not what I wanted in my RV life experience; despite the fact that I know there are many happy Minnie Winnie owners. Atreis said it is best, different strokes for different folks.

I have a natural immunity to poor quality control because I naturally dissect to the nth degree and don't buy crap
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Old 11-13-2021, 12:05 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
... I naturally dissect (purchases) to the nth degree....

Is this a
1 detriment
2 Imposition upon yourself
Or
3 the natural course of action you'd expect from everybody.

There are folks who pick 1 or 2. Maybe they believe the 7 in front of their IQ means they are lucky.
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Old 11-13-2021, 12:14 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by dkoldman View Post
At one dealership in North Dallas area, I really pissed a Winnie Sales Rep off because while I was complaining about the price of a 29ve he wanted to show me a Minnie Winnie I told him, I didn't care how great a Minnie Winnie might be, and how cheap it may cost, I was never gonna get pass the fact that I would have to tell people I bought a Minnie Winnie. That is just not what I wanted in RV life experience; despite the fact that I know there are many happy Minnie Winnie owners. Atreis said it is best, different strokes for different folks.

I have a natural immunity to poor quality control because I naturally dissect to the nth degree and don't buy crap
The answer, you could have bought the Spirit. Same vehicle, different name.
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Old 11-13-2021, 12:34 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Is this a
1 detriment
2 Imposition upon yourself
Or
3 the natural course of action you'd expect from everybody.

There are folks who pick 1 or 2. Maybe they believe the 7 in front of their IQ means they are lucky.
I would say neither; but #2 is the closest; but if it is accepted or welcomed; it is an ADVANTAGE or considered a BLESSING.

Do you not believe one can simply enjoy being thrifty. I love ebay's saying "Shop Victoriously" Some people like to gamble, some like to spend and shop until they have no more room to put stuff. Say you and I were brothers and we wanted a brand new refrigerator; you might go into Sears tonight and buy one that you like; I might spend a month researching all that were available before finding what I like; then another week finding the best price, service and delivery with every possible discount that may be applicable.

That mode of thinking is actually how I got a damn RV 3 years ago I was wanting to get one of the new 2019 Lincoln Navigators to replace my current Navigator. I deserved a new Lincoln and had the money to get a new one, but I did not want to pay $90k for SUV. I joked with my DW that with that kind of money we could buy a RV, with MBR, 2 Fridges, 3 TVs, Microwave, Baths, Outdoor kitchen, and still have a Navigator that we rarely ever drive anymore because of the new 2019 RV. So you might say we kind of thriftily backed into this hobby well before our time. Kind of got lucky though with RV due to the timing. We bought 3 months before Covid became a household word; but I was savvy enough then to know that it was a rock bottom price and a very good investment for brand spanking new Winnebago
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Old 11-13-2021, 12:45 AM   #71
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You exercised a thought process, went through 100 iterations,(you didn't know what a tornado rinse was but found out,) then excercised level headedness. You just think it was an imposition. You couldn't have done it any other way.

I believe in frivolity and frivolous purchases.
I would laughingly buy a gazebo and love it.
I made sure all bolts were there and the size was correctly stated. Due diligence even when buying that on a whim.

I didn't buy the gazebo thinking it was a three bedroom ranch, and then to be petulant when I find out it isn't.

(The frivolously bought gazebo and $800 tile shark. Both silly. Both vetted.)
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Old 11-13-2021, 12:48 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by chunker21 View Post
The answer, you could have bought the Spirit. Same vehicle, different name.
You might have sold me a Spirit, if I could have trusted the Mfgs GVWR, OCCC, and tire pressure ratings were correct. If that yellow sticker is wrong, no telling what else can't be trusted. When I get home from the fish market, I don't weigh the fish to see if they got it right
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Old 11-13-2021, 01:09 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Youb3xcercised sbthiught process,bwent through 100 iterations,(didnt know what a tornado rinse was but found out, then excercised level headedness. You just think it was an imposition. You couldnt have done ut any other way.

I believe in frivolity and frivolous purchases.
I would laughingly buy a gazebo and love it.
I made sure all bolts were there and the size was correctly stated. Due diligence even when buying that on a whim.

I didn't buy the gazebo thinking it was a three bedroom ranch, and then to be petulant when I find out it isn't.

(The frivolously bought gazebo)
Remember the Tornado you offered to install for me in my Winnebago because it was a block for me on every Sunstar / Vista 29ve I could find from Texas, New Mexico & Arizona? Well as fate would have my Sunstar 29ve purchased in Florida was the new year version of the 2019 and it came with the Sani Flush among other really nice upgrades, not to mention almost $20k reduction in price. Sure I missed out on a trip to Arizona and that large 40 oz steak, but it was a sacrifice I was willing to make

FWIW, in 2005 we had a 1998 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer. I will never forget driving down 183 in Irving to take the family to 6 Flags over Texas. It started to rain and very hard; so I took the 1st exit, it just happened to be a Lee Jarmon Ford Dealership right off the service road; so with everyone in the car I run inside just to see the new Ford Expeditions, 2 hours later I had bought a brand new 2005 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer ( I paid less for the new 2005 than what I had paid for the 2008) This goes under category of Information is Power; there is no set time limit to get the data (information), but some like to have all the data, process and make a decision; move forward never looking back. The RVs I didn't buy is because I knew I would be on this site complaining all of the time; and no I wasn't gonna to plan to fix all that was known broke before purchase. However; after purchase, I man up and accept all responsibility. Not buying an extended warranty is an indicator of my confidence with my RV. It has been two years and everything done was either Mfg warranty or just me modifying as you guys have taught me how to make it mine; so to speak.
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Old 11-13-2021, 02:39 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunker21 View Post
You asked in your post "So who do you think is the "standard" builder?
All RVs are built the same assembly-line way with the same workers except for the high end manufacturers. They all have their problems"

I gave my opinion based on years of being around RVs and ownership of a variety of types and brands. I've also been to RV shows, dealerships around the country, some factory tours, and based on my observations and OPINION, thor branded RVs are the entry level they tout to their shareholders. Entry level build is substandard and I do regret my purchase. You are a staunch thor supporter and part of an apparent cheering squad, what do you feel their strong points are in structural build quality?
Not quite right. Some coaches are built in-place one at a time, with specific crews moving from one model coach to another - Thor MC plant 850 and Newmar. Other plants use a moving production line where the workers and parts to be installed or made are assembled by the same crew at the station - Entegra RED and Thor MC Plant 750. Plant 750 also uses batch production, so all the coaches of a similar type are produced about every 6 weeks. The coach spends one day each station and there will be 7 to14 coaches at the station. The floor workers at that station go home when the assigned work is finished or at 3:30 pm. The night shift does the next days prep-work and finished anything left undone. The first time I was there the were producing only ACE29.x coaches (12 a day), but the second trip they were producing Hurricane/Windsport 34R and 35M (7 a day). Plant 750 has a capacity of about 2,200 coaches per model year, but produces only coaches specifically ordered by their dealers.

At Entegra, the line has 12 stations with 2 coaches at each station (they intermix 37 to 45 ft coaches together) and each coach spends 2 days at each station, so about 4 weeks to build a coach. They, then, go off to the paint shop for two additional weeks. Entegra Coach produces 400 coaches per model year
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Old 11-13-2021, 03:21 AM   #75
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I took almost exactly one year to research and buy a new 2017 Grand Design Imagine 2150RB... for just over $20k. Five short years later... I couldn't touch a similar new trailer for less than $45k.

Our 2020 class C's sticker was around $106k. I paid a tad over $70k. A new 2022 now lists for over $123k... try to buy one for less than $100k.

Lots of young folks think people are rich because of the money they spend. However, they're usually rich because of the money they DON'T spend.

I'm certainly not "rich" by wealth measurement standards... but I'm extremely happy I purchased our motorhome when I did. And no... I DIDN'T stay in a Holiday Inn last night.
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Old 11-13-2021, 07:05 PM   #76
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Same here, the design is better than ones 4 times the price, I love the layout of my Windsport.
But yes the quality of the cabinetry is not good, and if you pull out the drawers and see exactly how poorly it's assembled, you'd be even more put off.
However, I put in the hours doing the repairs to make it slightly better and its paid off. I saved $10s of thousand of dollars buying Thor vs the ones with high quality and it took a few trips to strengthen the weak links but I have to say, every person who enters my rig goes on about how great it looks and the love the layout.
So, I saved money, have a superior usable product in exchange for a few scraped knuckles and time making repairs.
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Old 11-13-2021, 07:10 PM   #77
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THOR #8513
The demand for trailers and motorhomes is crazy right now. According to a friend who works for Good Sams, there are 10 million new units sold every year in the US and 1.5 million in Canada.
With kind of demand, the manufacturer knows they can sell pretty much anything and quility is not top of mind in a heated market. Quantity is what they look for
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Old 11-13-2021, 07:22 PM   #78
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About drawers:
Upon arrival home from the purchase and before we filled the drawers with c rap:
We sent thin gorilla glue down every seam, top and bottom and fronts of every single drawer.
We then topped that off with a bead of hot glue after trimming back the overexpanded gorilla glue.

I'll say it was
half an hour for gorilla glue
Dry overnight
Trim for 10 minutes
No wait
Half an hour for hot glue
No wait
Replace.

Life CAN be so simple if you're not simple.
Just fix the things you can
Learn to fix the things you can't
Hire out the fixes you Won't do.

Or sell the rv you paid less attention to when buying than you pay when picking out shoes.
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:32 PM   #79
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Model: Freedom Traveller A27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
This is off topic but on topic.
On our last trip I saw a
THOR limousine.
It was a bit fancier than a small glas bodied city bus. High roof, flushmount black windows down both sides. No side doors, a molded rear door.
Edit: found this
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...bikKd4qdiHg5sh
Ostrich leather and disco lighting & sound. Haha! Must be an upgrade.
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:25 PM   #80
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THOR #20234
I just want Thor to honor their warranty. I'm having to drive my RV to the factory from Dallas to get repaired here in a month or two. What a pain, not to mention expense.
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