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Old 10-02-2022, 11:08 PM   #241
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Model: Magnitude SV34
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Judge and everyone left with damage and issues from Ian, we are so sorry! please stay safe as you work through this!

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Old 10-05-2022, 04:10 PM   #242
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Hello all.

Full disclaimer that puts me at risk of losing my 'Man Card' - I am a computer / networking guy who is not the most mechanically inclined, but I like to try fixing things at least.

I asked this question in another forum and got a few replies pointing me to this thread which frankly scares the heck out me. I am looking at getting a used 2016 Thor Motor Coach Class C RV CHATEAU 35SF with 25K miles. It looks really nice in the photos and I have an RV inspector on deck to go inspect it (for the low low fee of $485 gulp!) -

Since I am now aware of this front cap issue, is it possible to get this used unit and then have someone perform the mitigation steps I see others doing in here? Remove the bed, and secure the front cap with better hardware, etc.

Or is it a lost cause, and I should just keep looking at Senecas and Nexus units? (I need to pull an enclosed car hauler, so 10K or better towing is a must)

There is a ton of great info in here and I appreciate the answers I have seen so far.

Thanks everyone!

Joe
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Old 10-05-2022, 04:32 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by ivelivel View Post
Hello all.

Full disclaimer that puts me at risk of losing my 'Man Card' - I am a computer / networking guy who is not the most mechanically inclined, but I like to try fixing things at least.

I asked this question in another forum and got a few replies pointing me to this thread which frankly scares the heck out me. I am looking at getting a used 2016 Thor Motor Coach Class C RV CHATEAU 35SF with 25K miles. It looks really nice in the photos and I have an RV inspector on deck to go inspect it (for the low low fee of $485 gulp!) -

Since I am now aware of this front cap issue, is it possible to get this used unit and then have someone perform the mitigation steps I see others doing in here? Remove the bed, and secure the front cap with better hardware, etc.

Or is it a lost cause, and I should just keep looking at Senecas and Nexus units? (I need to pull an enclosed car hauler, so 10K or better towing is a must)

There is a ton of great info in here and I appreciate the answers I have seen so far.

Thanks everyone!

Joe
Every and any RV you buy is going to have problems of some sort and eventually some of them will be "big" ones. If the condition is satisfactory and youre paying a fair price then you're doing ok. Go in with eye's wide open, realize you will fix many things as you go along and enjoy the hell out of the journey.
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Old 10-05-2022, 05:19 PM   #244
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If 10k hauling is a requirement you must have, the F550 chassis will probably not work for your needs. The engine/transmission can pull all day long, but your problem will be the OCC and rear axle weight. Depending on the model, you will be lucky to get 3k OCC and then with a 10k trailer you will have 1k lbs tongue weight or higher. Based on other weights seen here on Thor and on the Dynamo Isata forms you will most likely exceed your rear axle weight.

The older M2 Seneca could be a good option, just confirm what the rear axle weight will be and the OCC (typical the M2 and newer S2 chassis have ~8k OCC) so you will have a lot more margin).

But, pulling 10k+ with a 6.7 is possible, but will be very very slow on the grades and without a real engine brake (6.7 only comes with exhaust/turbo brake) you will use your service brakes a lot more on big downhills.

Best of luck on your search.

Eric


Quote:
Originally Posted by ivelivel View Post
Hello all.

Full disclaimer that puts me at risk of losing my 'Man Card' - I am a computer / networking guy who is not the most mechanically inclined, but I like to try fixing things at least.

I asked this question in another forum and got a few replies pointing me to this thread which frankly scares the heck out me. I am looking at getting a used 2016 Thor Motor Coach Class C RV CHATEAU 35SF with 25K miles. It looks really nice in the photos and I have an RV inspector on deck to go inspect it (for the low low fee of $485 gulp!) -

Since I am now aware of this front cap issue, is it possible to get this used unit and then have someone perform the mitigation steps I see others doing in here? Remove the bed, and secure the front cap with better hardware, etc.

Or is it a lost cause, and I should just keep looking at Senecas and Nexus units? (I need to pull an enclosed car hauler, so 10K or better towing is a must)

There is a ton of great info in here and I appreciate the answers I have seen so far.

Thanks everyone!

Joe
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Old 10-18-2022, 11:01 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by kwplot34 View Post
When Thor said that they would not fix mine under the structural warranty and they could not tell me if they would fix the issue for free, and after hearing how they were fixing the cap a band aid repair to get you another year down the road and out of warranty, I cancelled my appointment and decided to fix it myself. I knew I could do the repair correct and 100X better than Thor. And as it turns out I was correct in that thinking, my repair is doing great, Thor's repairs are not holding up.
My 2021 Thor four winds 28z is in dealer with cap leak . What did you do to repair?
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Old 10-18-2022, 11:17 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Sullyd59 View Post
My 2021 Thor four winds 28z is in dealer with cap leak . What did you do to repair?

Your front cap is completely different than the Super C front caps so this discussion does not apply to your coach.

The Super C Front Cap is a one-piece fiberglass design. The regular Class C's are constructed with several pieces resulting in multiple seams on the top and sides.

See the picture below with arrows pointing to the seams that are on both sides and can be a water entry point.... along with the seam across the roof that is sealed with Dicor.

The roof seam and side seams need to be inspected once or twice a year and then resealed with the appropriate sealant as needed.

For the roof I always put EternaBond Tape over the Dicor and then I don't have to worry about roof seams ever again.

You will want to use something like ProFlex or Geocel 2300 Automotive Body Seam Sealer (this is what the Thor Factory Service Center uses) for the seems along the side of the cap.
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Old 10-19-2022, 06:59 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Sullyd59 View Post
My 2021 Thor four winds 28z is in dealer with cap leak . What did you do to repair?
What Judge said in his reply. But if you really want to know what I did.
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f4...fix-28874.html
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Old 10-19-2022, 09:26 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by kwplot34 View Post
What Judge said in his reply. But if you really want to know what I did.
https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f4...fix-28874.html
Kevin (kwplot34) did a great job fixing his. The link is how I fixed mine. The big difference is my "fix" took care of all the known factory deficiencies. My fix did cost a bit more in $$$ but has resulted in much more peace of mind and RVing satisfaction.


https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f4...xes-29412.html

EDIT ADDING; I'm not alone in how I made the fixes. There are others here who also did and on other forums I've run across several others who made the "ultimate fix" to permanently handle thor factory deficiencies. It all depends on what your pain threshold is and when you reach it.
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Old 10-22-2022, 02:17 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by chunker21 View Post
Kevin (kwplot34) did a great job fixing his. The link is how I fixed mine. The big difference is my "fix" took care of all the known factory deficiencies. My fix did cost a bit more in $$$ but has resulted in much more peace of mind and RVing satisfaction.


https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f4...xes-29412.html

EDIT ADDING; I'm not alone in how I made the fixes. There are others here who also did and on other forums I've run across several others who made the "ultimate fix" to permanently handle thor factory deficiencies. It all depends on what your pain threshold is and when you reach it.
Did you come across any place that will do the fix at this level? Many of us have neither the skill, place or time to do ourselves but would be happy to pay to have it done right.
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Old 10-22-2022, 02:52 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by LarryD View Post
Did you come across any place that will do the fix at this level? Many of us have neither the skill, place or time to do ourselves but would be happy to pay to have it done right.
I think you would need to take it to a well-experienced RV Repair Shop that specializes in collision services and restoration. Perhaps someone like these guys...

https://ctmotorcars.com/services.html


Kevin has laid out a nice blueprint that you could take to a shop like this one and see if they could give you a ballpark baed on the repair detail. Of course they will tell you the number could change because they don't know what they will find once as failed.they open it up.
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Old 10-22-2022, 03:07 PM   #251
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I just started tearing into the front cap on my SV34 now that Thor's attempt to fix it has failed. I'm using Kevin's work to see if I could take a few short cuts and get similar results.

The first thing that I decided to do was not to remove the entire outer molding / trim piece from the bottom of the coach up the side to the roof. These failures are happening at the front cap attachment point and not the from the bottom up the wing-walls.

Two screws above passenger side door level had backed out and lifting the trim. I softened it with a heat gun and then used a razor knife cut at the same level where the front cap attaches to the wing-wall. This way I only have to lift half the trim piece and to access the screws for the front cap and the bottom half of the trim piece can stay in tact. I will just use Geocel to seal the trim piece when I am done since I will be running a fresh bead around the entire bottom of the front cap where it attaches to the cab roof and wing-walls.

I am going to use #10 stainless steel machine screws, nylok nuts and washers like Kevin up the sides. The only thing I may not do is use a metal plate like he did. Some of my interior pieces will hide the nut and washer going up the wall. There is only a very thin crappy piece of paneling on the walls and behind it is a fairly decent metal skeleton structure. The panels should compress enough on tightening that it will secure the bolt well with just a small bit of flex. I might also decide to use a fender washer to spread out the coverage. I will use some adhesive sealant in the holes as well.

Now unfortunately, the front cap and roof is different on the SV34 compared to the XG32. Kevin had easy access to a metal channel running across the width of the XG32 so he could drill holes through the roof and use the nuts and washers though the metal channel.

The SV 34 is different. The fiberglass from the front cap rests across a piece of wood similar to a 2 x 4 and then that 2 x 4 sits on large square metal tube. It is 5" from the underside of the fiberglass cap to the end of the square metal tube.

That means the screws on the roof go through wood first and then probably the top of the square tube. I put Eternabond tape down over all of the Dicor when I bought the coach and there are several screw heads trying to push though the Eternabond..... just like the screws pushing through the side molding.

I would need 5 1/2 - 6" bolts but my problem is that is where a trim piece runs for the cab-over curtain. I would have an issue putting the trim piece and curtain back up with the end of bolts and nuts sticking out of the ceiling.

I will either get 5" large heavy duty stainless steel sheet metal bolts and drill a hole through the Eternabond Tape, Dicor and molding running across the roof and then through the wood and both side of the metal tube so the bolts are biting in both sides of the tube. I would also put adhesive sealant on the bolts as I install them to seal the hold and help the bolts stay in the metal tube. Then I will just Dicor over the bolt heads and lay down another layer of Eternabond Tape over the entire seam on the roof to cover the new Dicor and bolts.

I'm not sure I'm going to tear my cab-over apart like Kevin did. While the cab-over floor is a joke, it does look like they used fairly good size sheet metal screws to attach the base of the cab-over cap to the cab roof. None of those screw are loose. If they haven't loosened by this point, I don't think they will. I might try to get some adhesive sealant on the thread just to keep them in place.

It looks like the bulk of my front cap problems are the screws going up the sides of the cap and over the roof. The driver's side still looks good.... but if the passenger side goes well, I could going to use a razor knife to cut the driver side molding in the same place and then soften it with a heat gun and lift it up to the roof so I can put bolts on the drivers side.

If I can put bolts and nuts up the sides and then bigger and longer bolts through the roof, hopefully I will end my front cap issues once and for all.
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Old 10-22-2022, 03:55 PM   #252
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It is absolutely unacceptable that Thor would engineer it this way and then do nothing to repair it. I love my rig but I will never buy another Thor product again ( I upgrade every 5 years) and will make certain to tell every person I meet at every campground I visit about how poorly made their products are and how they do not stand behind them at all. I have already steered several buyers away.
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Old 10-22-2022, 04:16 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by LarryD View Post
It is absolutely unacceptable that Thor would engineer it this way and then do nothing to repair it. I love my rig but I will never buy another Thor product again ( I upgrade every 5 years) and will make certain to tell every person I meet at every campground I visit about how poorly made their products are and how they do not stand behind them at all. I have already steered several buyers away.
I could not agree more..... it is unacceptable and pathetic. This is my last Thor product as well... regardless of the Thor brand.

I may have my wife post some of my pictures on Thor's Facebook site to make sure other prospective buyers know what they are getting into.
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Old 10-23-2022, 01:19 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by LarryD View Post
Did you come across any place that will do the fix at this level? Many of us have neither the skill, place or time to do ourselves but would be happy to pay to have it done right.
Larry you are in a pickle as you are well aware now. First taking it to the factory is a waste of time as judge has said. If they even agree to "fix" it all they will do is the same thing again. That's the definition of insanity, same thing expecting different results. No dealer is likely to help. First they are unlikely to have any expertise and they would just follow thor advice which is useless.

An independent shop and body shop would be your best best and as judge has said, you'll have to detail to them what the problem is and show them the kwplot method. If you can find someone who will work with you expect big $$$ for the repair. I don't understand how you or anyone else could "love the RV" with this known serious structural deficiency and the other horrid build practices thor uses.

To you and judge as he fixes thors mess again, insulate it thoroughly. To judge when you get to the area needing the 6" screws, I'd suggest a minimum 3/8" grade 5 bolt with fender washers.

I'll again express my opinion that any omni/magnitude users that drive their RV on trips as opposed to parking it in place, get rid of it. You'll get tired of the sawdust and Styrofoam shreds from the vents, toilets and black tanks that don't flush or drain, no insulation where needed including inadequate sealing between the cab and body allowing engine fumes inside while driving. Those and other things showing up will ruin the owner's experience. The list of "I'll never have any other thor product" is growing. If you do decide to dump it read carefully any of the nexus forums and posts. Their "issues" are pretty big, not as blatant as thor but still problematic.

Thor will never take ownership of the issues. They may discontinue the omni/magnitude lines and stall out owners, deny that it is anything structural and wait till everything is a year old, wash their hands of the line and go on to their next boondoggle.
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Old 10-23-2022, 03:06 PM   #255
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Larry you are in a pickle as you are well aware now. First taking it to the factory is a waste of time as judge has said. If they even agree to "fix" it all they will do is the same thing again. That's the definition of insanity, same thing expecting different results. No dealer is likely to help. First they are unlikely to have any expertise and they would just follow thor advice which is useless.

An independent shop and body shop would be your best best and as judge has said, you'll have to detail to them what the problem is and show them the kwplot method. If you can find someone who will work with you expect big $$$ for the repair. I don't understand how you or anyone else could "love the RV" with this known serious structural deficiency and the other horrid build practices thor uses.

To you and judge as he fixes thors mess again, insulate it thoroughly. To judge when you get to the area needing the 6" screws, I'd suggest a minimum 3/8" grade 5 bolt with fender washers.

I'll again express my opinion that any omni/magnitude users that drive their RV on trips as opposed to parking it in place, get rid of it. You'll get tired of the sawdust and Styrofoam shreds from the vents, toilets and black tanks that don't flush or drain, no insulation where needed including inadequate sealing between the cab and body allowing engine fumes inside while driving. Those and other things showing up will ruin the owner's experience. The list of "I'll never have any other thor product" is growing. If you do decide to dump it read carefully any of the nexus forums and posts. Their "issues" are pretty big, not as blatant as thor but still problematic.

Thor will never take ownership of the issues. They may discontinue the omni/magnitude lines and stall out owners, deny that it is anything structural and wait till everything is a year old, wash their hands of the line and go on to their next boondoggle.
My guess is he ďlovesĒ the concept of his coach. And it may be less expensive to pay for a proper fix than to take the big hit getting rid of it as you may have done.
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Old 10-23-2022, 03:29 PM   #256
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My guess is he “loves” the concept of his coach. And it may be less expensive to pay for a proper fix than to take the big hit getting rid of it as you may have done.
Interesting choice of words, but appropriate, "concept". Manufacturers make concept cars which are idealistic over the top ideas but something that will never come to fruition. Those concepts may make it to the manufacturing line but in radically changed design. Liking the concept is like believing in unicorns. Nice fantasy but time to rejoin reality. Yes it can be potentially expensive to make the change but since no one knows which other abysmal thor build practice will raise it's ugly head, that expense made now can seem like a pittance. Let's not forget the hazardous propane line routing which thor tried to deny initially and then limited the recall numbers to be self serving but dishonest of course. There are other things coming you just don't know what or when.

Disclaimer, no RV is without fault or perfect but some make deliberate attempts to be substandard.

EDIT adding; I suspect that since he/she admits it's a fix beyond their mechanical abilities, finding someone to fix it proper will be very expensive. Considering that RV and body shop rates are easily $100+++ an hours, locally here in south Alabama $130, ask Kwplot34 how many hours he estimates he has in his repair. Perhaps judge will tally up his repair hours and materials for the benefit of posters here.
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Old 10-24-2022, 12:11 AM   #257
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Thor Super C front cap issues

Well..... I have the bolts in the passenger side and it worked out better than I expected. It turns out there is a steel plate behind the vinyl covering on the wall. That is to support the TV mounted in the cab-over (I removed the TV a couple years ago and put a small TV on a folding mount under the cabinet above the entry steps).

I installed 12 bolts and 8 of them went into the metal plate and they will all be covered by the wing-wall cover and the wall cover.

I am fairly convinced that cutting the trim molding where the front cap attaches and lifting it to install bolts from there up to the roof is all that is needed. I have not seen an Omni / Magnitude where the screws were pushing through the trim below the cap behind the wing-walls.

I did find one screw that was broken in addition to the two that were backed half way out and lifting the trim piece. Drilling the holes through the aluminum frame in the wall was easy.... till I got to the steel plate on the wall and then I had to switch to a better drill bit.

I used #10-24 x 2" stainless steel machine screws with nylok nuts over 3/4" fender washers. I also used some adhesive sealant in the holes and over the screw heads. The hardest part was removing the old sealant on both sides of the trim piece. I have two days of 70 degree weather left so I hope to put the molding back down and seal it tomorrow.

The driver side is still not showing any signs of screws backing out yet but I think I'm going to cut the trim molding where the front cap starts and then lift it, remove the screws, and install another 12 bolts on the driver side. I'm hoping I can pull back the vinyl wall covering enough to get the washers and nuts on the bolts. I would have to remove the window above the driver side door to remover the entire wall piece and I don't really want to do that for fear of getting things resealed properly.

I'm hoping I can get both sides down this week before we head to Florida. Then when we come back up to see family for Christmas I will try to work on the roof and decide what, if any, improvements I'll make to the cab-over floor.

We'll see how it goes but I feel pretty good about this front cap fix. Probably not as good as kwplot34's fix but it should be good enough.

If you look at the size and weight of the front cap and how much it hangs past the windshield, it is easy to see how it stresses the bottom portion of the front cap where it mounts above the wing-walls. It becomes like a giant fulcrum driving down the road and it just starts to stress where the screws go into the aluminum wall frame. Then the screws start to loosen and back out or just snap in half. Using bolts up the side should go a long way to stabilizing the front cap when it is bouncing up and down and the bolts will not come loose and they should not break going through the entire wall.

The shame of it all is that it would not have taken much additional time or additional cost to bolt the front cap to the house roof and walls like Dynamax and Renegade does. But Thor could care less about building a quality product or improving customer satisfaction by evaluating recurring issues and coming up with a plan to fix them.
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Old 10-24-2022, 07:40 AM   #258
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Looking good Judge. I am sure your fix will hold up just fine, the only thing I would of urged you too do was to put the adhesive/sealant between the cap and the wall too pretty much guarantee no leaks in that area.
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Old 10-24-2022, 10:12 AM   #259
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Looking good Judge. I am sure your fix will hold up just fine, the only thing I would of urged you too do was to put the adhesive/sealant between the cap and the wall too pretty much guarantee no leaks in that area.

I did forget to mention that I did inject an adhesive sealant into the holes. Iím also going to run a bead behind the metal trim strip where you can see joint between the cap and the wall.

Then Iíll use Geocel to reseal the trim piece after I reattach it. Hopefully that will all keep water out.
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Old 10-24-2022, 10:19 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Judge View Post
I did forget to mention that I did inject an adhesive sealant into the holes. I’m also going to run a bead behind the metal trim strip where you can see joint between the cap and the wall.

Then I’ll use Geocel to reseal the trim piece after I reattach it. Hopefully that will all keep water out.
When you had the parts loose, what did you use to support the cap when you put the fasteners in? Also, Kwplot34 did extensive insulating of the cap and attachment areas, did you get it apart in those areas to do that also? My Valencia doesn't have the front cap window and frankly I don't miss it do to the terrible heat gain from the one in the omni. Does your current repair address the cap cover issues you previously had in order to make a permanent repair? I hope this repair gets you through the next couple years that you plan to keep it.

EDIT adding question; What do you use the cap for? I had a guest sleep up there in the omni on one trip but in the Valencia we use it for less frequently need things storage. Extra TP, towels, blankets, etc. Not a lot of weight up there.
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