Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Thor Forums > Thor Motorcoach & Motorhome > Class C and Super C Motorhomes
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-13-2021, 05:03 PM   #21
Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Illinois
Posts: 37
THOR #22705
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
Interesting to hear the 26" measurement for E-series chassis. I went outside and measured my E350. I got 25.5" front and rear. As suspected without being weighed, I shouldn't be overloaded.

To me, if a shorter replacement rear shackle was available, that would be the simplest way to gain 1" lift.

My shackle is 4.5" center to center.
Sounds like a good idea

__________________
6inthefamily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 05:03 PM   #22
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,340
THOR #7035
Bag it and move on:

__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
16ACE27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 06:09 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
Interesting to hear the 26" measurement for E-series chassis. I went outside and measured my E350. I got 25.5" front and rear. As suspected without being weighed, I shouldn't be overloaded.

To me, if a shorter replacement rear shackle was available, that would be the simplest way to gain 1" lift.

My shackle is 4.5" center to center.

I seriously doubt you could get 1 inch of lift with shorter shackle without first screwing up its function.
__________________
Chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 07:15 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Georgia
Posts: 476
THOR #21919
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Bag it and move on:
I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.
__________________
- 2022 Vegas 24.1
- Former US Marine - 1988-1996
sportcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2021, 07:19 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Georgia
Posts: 476
THOR #21919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
I seriously doubt you could get 1 inch of lift with shorter shackle without first screwing up its function.
Yes the shackle has to articulate forward and aft as suspension cycles.

Can I meet you halfway at 1/2" lift? If I don't ask, I won't find out.

A simple lift block is probably my best option.
__________________
- 2022 Vegas 24.1
- Former US Marine - 1988-1996
sportcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 11:32 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.

You should have mentioned this from start. It changes everything in my opinion.

There is no accurate way of knowing how much additional weight the air bags are supporting, so your motorhome could indeed be overloaded. The additional 1 inch lower ride height is likely due to added load/weight over time which compresses both sets of springs.

Getting motorhome weighed must come first.
__________________
Chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 04:29 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Georgia
Posts: 476
THOR #21919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
You should have mentioned this from start. It changes everything in my opinion.

There is no accurate way of knowing how much additional weight the air bags are supporting, so your motorhome could indeed be overloaded. The additional 1 inch lower ride height is likely due to added load/weight over time which compresses both sets of springs.

Getting motorhome weighed must come first.

Correct. I should have but without talking through it, I forgot. No additional weight was added since the airbags were installed. Just time for them to stretch some I thought. I accounted for the loss in ride height from the bags stretching over time. Not to additional weight.



For the time being, I can let the air out of the airbags and remeasure the 26" from ground to top of frame again.


.
__________________
- 2022 Vegas 24.1
- Former US Marine - 1988-1996
sportcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 05:31 PM   #28
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,340
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.
Would have been good information to include in your FIRST post.
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
16ACE27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2021, 05:25 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Georgia
Posts: 476
THOR #21919
Weighed my 2022 Vegas 24.1 on E350 chassis, full tank gas, fresh water tank 1/2 full. All gear onboard. Only thing missing are clothes, ice cream and my adult daughter.

Front 4800 (max 5000)
Rear 7560 (max 8500)
Gross 12360 (max 12500)

Why is my max gross 12500 and not 13500?
__________________
- 2022 Vegas 24.1
- Former US Marine - 1988-1996
sportcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 02:11 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Hooligan2's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2016 Siesta Sprinter 24ST
State: Florida
Posts: 604
THOR #2812
Some factor other than axle weigh limits determines your GVWR. Frame, engine, transmission, brakes etc... Common for axle limits to be higher than needed for GVWR. Would not want them to be less.
__________________
U.S. Coast Guard retired- 1956-1985
Pensacola, Florida
2016 Siesta 24ST
1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
Hooligan2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 12:15 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Vegas 24.1
State: Georgia
Posts: 476
THOR #21919
7.3L is same engine and transmission in my 25 foot Vegas as is in a 35 foot Ace.

Some Vegas models combine axle maximums, some do not. I know several factors come into play. I just feel I was cheated

My money says Ford is just being very conservative with the E350.
__________________
- 2022 Vegas 24.1
- Former US Marine - 1988-1996
sportcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 02:16 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post

....cut..... I know several factors come into play. I just feel I was cheated

......cut....


By Ford not providing higher rating, or by Thor building motorhome too heavy?

What one hand giveth the the other taketh away.


Just saying there are two ways to increase OCCC, but in North America we seem fixated on half the equation.
__________________
Chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 02:34 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
chunker21's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32 GONE for good
State: Alabama
Posts: 1,750
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
By Ford not providing higher rating, or by Thor building motorhome too heavy?

What one hand giveth the the other taketh away.


Just saying there are two ways to increase OCCC, but in North America we seem fixated on half the equation.
To keep it close to an apples/apples comparison, look at the 3 main smaller super C. Thor Omni, Dynamax Isata 5, and Renegade Veracruz. All sit on f550 or ram 5500 chassis with GVWR of 19.5K. Available CCC is the most for the thor based on similar length models. Thor uses lighter materials, think flimsier, than Dynamax or Renegade. Thor did step up to the f600 in one version which added a ton+ to CCC and I suspect the other 2 will also. Given the circumstances, I'd rather have a better built heavier house than a lighter one with more CCC. The 550/5500 chassis suffers from much the same issue as the 350/450 chassis. Manufacturers putting too much house and weight for the length. If the 350/450 were kept under 30' CCC would be better, same for 550/5500.
__________________
2022 Renegade Valencia 35MB
2021 Jeep Gladiator
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
2012 PT Crusader 355BHQ
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 02:58 PM   #34
Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Illinois
Posts: 37
THOR #22705
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunker21 View Post
To keep it close to an apples/apples comparison, look at the 3 main smaller super C. Thor Omni, Dynamax Isata 5, and Renegade Veracruz. All sit on f550 or ram 5500 chassis with GVWR of 19.5K. Available CCC is the most for the thor based on similar length models. Thor uses lighter materials, think flimsier, than Dynamax or Renegade. Thor did step up to the f600 in one version which added a ton+ to CCC and I suspect the other 2 will also. Given the circumstances, I'd rather have a better built heavier house than a lighter one with more CCC. The 550/5500 chassis suffers from much the same issue as the 350/450 chassis. Manufacturers putting too much house and weight for the length. If the 350/450 were kept under 30' CCC would be better, same for 550/5500.
So True

My experience in autocross and track car setup has taught me that setting up a vehicle shocks/springs/corner balancing are critical to get right first, then add sway bars, steering stabilizers, bushings, etc to "fine tune" the setup.
It amazing me how many people with RVs try to fix overweight handling with sway bars. It's like putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. It may slow the bleeding but you still need stitches!

I am saving up for our next RV on the Freight- liner S2RV chassis. I am unimpressed with the F550/Ram 5500 models
__________________
6inthefamily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 03:16 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
chunker21's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32 GONE for good
State: Alabama
Posts: 1,750
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6inthefamily View Post
So True

My experience in autocross and track car setup has taught me that setting up a vehicle shocks/springs/corner balancing are critical to get right first, then add sway bars, steering stabilizers, bushings, etc to "fine tune" the setup.
It amazing me how many people with RVs try to fix overweight handling with sway bars. It's like putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. It may slow the bleeding but you still need stitches!

I am saving up for our next RV on the Freight- liner S2RV chassis. I am unimpressed with the F550/Ram 5500 models
The 550 is a great chassis but only when used with the limitations it has. Unfortunately most if not all RV manufacturers just keep making the house bigger without regard to the ability of the chassis it sits on. I previously had a Winnebago Vista that was 38' long on the F53 chassis, gas front engine. Same chassis power train as on the sub 30' models. Just too much weight and length. Same applies to the the 550/550 chassis. It will be more difficult for the RV manufacturers to overload the S2RV chassis but some will manage.
__________________
2022 Renegade Valencia 35MB
2021 Jeep Gladiator
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
2012 PT Crusader 355BHQ
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 03:35 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Brand: Still Looking
State: Texas
Posts: 6,187
THOR #2121
The problem I see is that it is relatively cheap to add weight versus designing for lightness. There have to be factors other than costs driving decisions otherwise it’s easy to end up with heavy motorhomes.

For example, if designing an Axis/Vegas 24.1 for an OCCC of 2,500 pounds, it’s cheaper to pay the price premium for an E-450 chassis over that of an E-350 than it would be to use lighter and more expensive materials, components and fabrication to end up with same 2,500-pound OCCC.

Manufacturers seem to balance lowest price point while offering what most buyers want most, including roomiest motorhome that still has “adequate” OCCC, even if not ideal. I expect RV marketing is probably not as easy as we think.
__________________
Chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 03:52 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
chunker21's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32 GONE for good
State: Alabama
Posts: 1,750
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post

Manufacturers seem to balance lowest price point while offering what most buyers want most, including roomiest motorhome that still has “adequate” OCCC, even if not ideal. I expect RV marketing is probably not as easy as we think.
CCC seems often to be just an after thought, build it and see what it weighs. CCC isn't generally heavily advertised and often you have to hunt to find it. Sometimes finding an actual RV and seeing what the sticker says. The CCC is deceptive because some RVs might publish a figure but there's no practical way to load it without exceeding an axle GWR. Most RV owners likely never visit the scales to see what and where cargo can be loaded.
__________________
2022 Renegade Valencia 35MB
2021 Jeep Gladiator
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
2012 PT Crusader 355BHQ
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 03:56 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: '17-Vegas 24.1
State: California
Posts: 2,227
THOR #13362
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.
My ‘16 E450 chassis naturally sits high in the rear
That is…if on a perfectly level pad, I need to raise my front HWH levelers a bit to become completely level.

I should add…I have Air Lift 1000 air springs in my front coil springs that raise the front end about 3/4” when inflated to 45# (just under recommended max).

But even with that, front end sits lower than rear on the E450 chassis.
__________________
'17 Vegas 24.1
Fallbrook, CA
taylorbob1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 04:14 PM   #39
Site Team
 
16ACE27's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: ACE 27.1
State: Florida
Posts: 14,340
THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
7.3L is same engine and transmission in my 25 foot Vegas as is in a 35 foot Ace.

Some Vegas models combine axle maximums, some do not. I know several factors come into play. I just feel I was cheated

My money says Ford is just being very conservative with the E350.
Each of my tires has a 4540 max load rating.

I have 6 tires so a total of 27,240 lbs.

But my GVWR is 16,000 lbs.

Should I feel cheated?
__________________
Ted & Melinda
2016 ACE 27.1
2016 Chevy Sonic Toad - Selling
2020 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Runner Toad
2024 Chevrolet Trax 2RS - Soon 2B TOAD
16ACE27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 04:44 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
chunker21's Avatar
 
Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Omni XG32 GONE for good
State: Alabama
Posts: 1,750
THOR #22586
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Each of my tires has a 4540 max load rating.

I have 6 tires so a total of 27,240 lbs.

But my GVWR is 16,000 lbs.

Should I feel cheated?
Yes you got cheated. Your tires can carry 11,240 more weight than the chassis. I think a congressional investigation is warranted. Maybe get one of those lawyer firms that advertise about roundup or hip replacements. Make thor pay for under building your RV.
__________________
2022 Renegade Valencia 35MB
2021 Jeep Gladiator
2019 Harley Davidson FLHTC
2012 PT Crusader 355BHQ
chunker21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Thor Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2