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Old 12-13-2021, 05:03 PM   #21
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Interesting to hear the 26" measurement for E-series chassis. I went outside and measured my E350. I got 25.5" front and rear. As suspected without being weighed, I shouldn't be overloaded.

To me, if a shorter replacement rear shackle was available, that would be the simplest way to gain 1" lift.

My shackle is 4.5" center to center.
Sounds like a good idea

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Old 12-13-2021, 05:03 PM   #22
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Bag it and move on:

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Old 12-13-2021, 06:09 PM   #23
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Interesting to hear the 26" measurement for E-series chassis. I went outside and measured my E350. I got 25.5" front and rear. As suspected without being weighed, I shouldn't be overloaded.

To me, if a shorter replacement rear shackle was available, that would be the simplest way to gain 1" lift.

My shackle is 4.5" center to center.

I seriously doubt you could get 1 inch of lift with shorter shackle without first screwing up its function.
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Old 12-13-2021, 07:15 PM   #24
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Bag it and move on:
I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.
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Old 12-13-2021, 07:19 PM   #25
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I seriously doubt you could get 1 inch of lift with shorter shackle without first screwing up its function.
Yes the shackle has to articulate forward and aft as suspension cycles.

Can I meet you halfway at 1/2" lift? If I don't ask, I won't find out.

A simple lift block is probably my best option.
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Old 12-14-2021, 11:32 AM   #26
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I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.

You should have mentioned this from start. It changes everything in my opinion.

There is no accurate way of knowing how much additional weight the air bags are supporting, so your motorhome could indeed be overloaded. The additional 1 inch lower ride height is likely due to added load/weight over time which compresses both sets of springs.

Getting motorhome weighed must come first.
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Old 12-14-2021, 04:29 PM   #27
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You should have mentioned this from start. It changes everything in my opinion.

There is no accurate way of knowing how much additional weight the air bags are supporting, so your motorhome could indeed be overloaded. The additional 1 inch lower ride height is likely due to added load/weight over time which compresses both sets of springs.

Getting motorhome weighed must come first.

Correct. I should have but without talking through it, I forgot. No additional weight was added since the airbags were installed. Just time for them to stretch some I thought. I accounted for the loss in ride height from the bags stretching over time. Not to additional weight.



For the time being, I can let the air out of the airbags and remeasure the 26" from ground to top of frame again.


.
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Old 12-14-2021, 05:31 PM   #28
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I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.
Would have been good information to include in your FIRST post.
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Old 12-23-2021, 05:25 PM   #29
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Weighed my 2022 Vegas 24.1 on E350 chassis, full tank gas, fresh water tank 1/2 full. All gear onboard. Only thing missing are clothes, ice cream and my adult daughter.

Front 4800 (max 5000)
Rear 7560 (max 8500)
Gross 12360 (max 12500)

Why is my max gross 12500 and not 13500?
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Old 12-29-2021, 02:11 AM   #30
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Some factor other than axle weigh limits determines your GVWR. Frame, engine, transmission, brakes etc... Common for axle limits to be higher than needed for GVWR. Would not want them to be less.
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Old 12-29-2021, 12:15 PM   #31
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7.3L is same engine and transmission in my 25 foot Vegas as is in a 35 foot Ace.

Some Vegas models combine axle maximums, some do not. I know several factors come into play. I just feel I was cheated

My money says Ford is just being very conservative with the E350.
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Old 12-29-2021, 02:16 PM   #32
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....cut..... I know several factors come into play. I just feel I was cheated

......cut....


By Ford not providing higher rating, or by Thor building motorhome too heavy?

What one hand giveth the the other taketh away.


Just saying there are two ways to increase OCCC, but in North America we seem fixated on half the equation.
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Old 12-29-2021, 02:34 PM   #33
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By Ford not providing higher rating, or by Thor building motorhome too heavy?

What one hand giveth the the other taketh away.


Just saying there are two ways to increase OCCC, but in North America we seem fixated on half the equation.
To keep it close to an apples/apples comparison, look at the 3 main smaller super C. Thor Omni, Dynamax Isata 5, and Renegade Veracruz. All sit on f550 or ram 5500 chassis with GVWR of 19.5K. Available CCC is the most for the thor based on similar length models. Thor uses lighter materials, think flimsier, than Dynamax or Renegade. Thor did step up to the f600 in one version which added a ton+ to CCC and I suspect the other 2 will also. Given the circumstances, I'd rather have a better built heavier house than a lighter one with more CCC. The 550/5500 chassis suffers from much the same issue as the 350/450 chassis. Manufacturers putting too much house and weight for the length. If the 350/450 were kept under 30' CCC would be better, same for 550/5500.
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Old 12-29-2021, 02:58 PM   #34
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To keep it close to an apples/apples comparison, look at the 3 main smaller super C. Thor Omni, Dynamax Isata 5, and Renegade Veracruz. All sit on f550 or ram 5500 chassis with GVWR of 19.5K. Available CCC is the most for the thor based on similar length models. Thor uses lighter materials, think flimsier, than Dynamax or Renegade. Thor did step up to the f600 in one version which added a ton+ to CCC and I suspect the other 2 will also. Given the circumstances, I'd rather have a better built heavier house than a lighter one with more CCC. The 550/5500 chassis suffers from much the same issue as the 350/450 chassis. Manufacturers putting too much house and weight for the length. If the 350/450 were kept under 30' CCC would be better, same for 550/5500.
So True

My experience in autocross and track car setup has taught me that setting up a vehicle shocks/springs/corner balancing are critical to get right first, then add sway bars, steering stabilizers, bushings, etc to "fine tune" the setup.
It amazing me how many people with RVs try to fix overweight handling with sway bars. It's like putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. It may slow the bleeding but you still need stitches!

I am saving up for our next RV on the Freight- liner S2RV chassis. I am unimpressed with the F550/Ram 5500 models
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Old 12-29-2021, 03:16 PM   #35
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So True

My experience in autocross and track car setup has taught me that setting up a vehicle shocks/springs/corner balancing are critical to get right first, then add sway bars, steering stabilizers, bushings, etc to "fine tune" the setup.
It amazing me how many people with RVs try to fix overweight handling with sway bars. It's like putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. It may slow the bleeding but you still need stitches!

I am saving up for our next RV on the Freight- liner S2RV chassis. I am unimpressed with the F550/Ram 5500 models
The 550 is a great chassis but only when used with the limitations it has. Unfortunately most if not all RV manufacturers just keep making the house bigger without regard to the ability of the chassis it sits on. I previously had a Winnebago Vista that was 38' long on the F53 chassis, gas front engine. Same chassis power train as on the sub 30' models. Just too much weight and length. Same applies to the the 550/550 chassis. It will be more difficult for the RV manufacturers to overload the S2RV chassis but some will manage.
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Old 12-29-2021, 03:35 PM   #36
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The problem I see is that it is relatively cheap to add weight versus designing for lightness. There have to be factors other than costs driving decisions otherwise it’s easy to end up with heavy motorhomes.

For example, if designing an Axis/Vegas 24.1 for an OCCC of 2,500 pounds, it’s cheaper to pay the price premium for an E-450 chassis over that of an E-350 than it would be to use lighter and more expensive materials, components and fabrication to end up with same 2,500-pound OCCC.

Manufacturers seem to balance lowest price point while offering what most buyers want most, including roomiest motorhome that still has “adequate” OCCC, even if not ideal. I expect RV marketing is probably not as easy as we think.
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Old 12-29-2021, 03:52 PM   #37
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Manufacturers seem to balance lowest price point while offering what most buyers want most, including roomiest motorhome that still has “adequate” OCCC, even if not ideal. I expect RV marketing is probably not as easy as we think.
CCC seems often to be just an after thought, build it and see what it weighs. CCC isn't generally heavily advertised and often you have to hunt to find it. Sometimes finding an actual RV and seeing what the sticker says. The CCC is deceptive because some RVs might publish a figure but there's no practical way to load it without exceeding an axle GWR. Most RV owners likely never visit the scales to see what and where cargo can be loaded.
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Old 12-29-2021, 03:56 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
I have rear air bags. At first they gave me 1.75" at 75 psi when brand new. Now that they've been holding the weight for a while, that initial 1.75" gain has shrunk to 0.75" at the same 75 psi.

This is why I am asking for ideas to get that 1" back.
My ‘16 E450 chassis naturally sits high in the rear
That is…if on a perfectly level pad, I need to raise my front HWH levelers a bit to become completely level.

I should add…I have Air Lift 1000 air springs in my front coil springs that raise the front end about 3/4” when inflated to 45# (just under recommended max).

But even with that, front end sits lower than rear on the E450 chassis.
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Old 12-29-2021, 04:14 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
7.3L is same engine and transmission in my 25 foot Vegas as is in a 35 foot Ace.

Some Vegas models combine axle maximums, some do not. I know several factors come into play. I just feel I was cheated

My money says Ford is just being very conservative with the E350.
Each of my tires has a 4540 max load rating.

I have 6 tires so a total of 27,240 lbs.

But my GVWR is 16,000 lbs.

Should I feel cheated?
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Old 12-29-2021, 04:44 PM   #40
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Each of my tires has a 4540 max load rating.

I have 6 tires so a total of 27,240 lbs.

But my GVWR is 16,000 lbs.

Should I feel cheated?
Yes you got cheated. Your tires can carry 11,240 more weight than the chassis. I think a congressional investigation is warranted. Maybe get one of those lawyer firms that advertise about roundup or hip replacements. Make thor pay for under building your RV.
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