Thor Omni - AGM batteries not working with LED panel

[ShoppingNinja]

Looking for some help with an issue we're now having after swapping out our original batteries for two LifeLine GPL‑4CT AGM batteries in our 2022 Thor Omni BT36. The solar panel controller shows the correct voltage for the new batteries, but the Mira LED panel on the interior seems to be having a problem with them. The voltage read-out keeps cycling up and down for the house battery voltage. There is also a "General Fault" showing in the diagnostics. We've checked the breakers and nothing seems to be tripped. If you've installed AGM batteries in your coach, is there anything we need to do other than set the solar controller to AGM, which we already did?? Thanks for the assistance!

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by ShoppingNinja

Looking for some help with an issue we're now having after swapping out our original batteries for two LifeLine GPL‑4CT AGM batteries in our 2022 Thor Omni BT36. The solar panel controller shows the correct voltage for the new batteries, but the Mira LED panel on the interior seems to be having a problem with them. The voltage read-out keeps cycling up and down for the house battery voltage. There is also a "General Fault" showing in the diagnostics. We've checked the breakers and nothing seems to be tripped. If you've installed AGM batteries in your coach, is there anything we need to do other than set the solar controller to AGM, which we already did?? Thanks for the assistance!

Wire the new batteries the same as the old batteries and not trip any breakers or blow any fuses.

The above statement assumes you replaced 6 volt batteries with the new 6 volt batteries. If you replaced 12 volt batteries with the new 6 volt batteries then the parallel configuration has to be change to a series configuration.

[ShoppingNinja]

The new AGM batteries are 6V wired exactly as the old batteries were. There are no breakers tripped or fuses blown. Is there anything else we should be looking at?

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by ShoppingNinja

The new AGM batteries are 6V wired exactly as the old batteries were. There are no breakers tripped or fuses blown. Is there anything else we should be looking at?

No, there is no difference in the 12 VDC system between FLA batteries and AGM batteries. There are slight changes in charging profiles, but not enough to make a difference in an inverter/charger or converter - the rest of the system would not see a difference.

Without more info that's as clear as my crystal ball gets.

Did you take pictures of and label all battery cable connections before the change?

Have you verified the DC breakers in the battery compartment are not tripped by tripping and resetting them?

Have you unplugged from SP and verified all DC systems work as expected?

[Judge]

I have a ' 20 Magnitude SV34 and done many upgrades, including LiFePO4.

Did you check the small 50A breaker that allows voltage to go from the house batteries back to the Converter and G7 Mainboard?

Did you also make sure the Use / Store Switch is in the Use position?

Many guys end up tripping that breaker when changing batteries because it is so tight under the steps.

If you are on shore power, you Converter will provide 12V for lights, etc. but if the house batterie are disconnected via the tripped breaker or you have the Use / Store Switch in Store, that could be your issue.

[ShoppingNinja]

Yes, we labeled the battery connections before the replacement.


None of the breakers are tripped, including the two in the battery compartment.


We've unplugged from SP and everything works as expected. In fact, when plugged into SP, everything works as expected, other than the display for the Vegatouch.



To test whether the Vegatouch was seeing the new batteries, we unplugged from SP, started the engine with the parking brake engaged, and checked to see that the slides were now unlocked and the awning locked, which is what should happen if the system is registering adequate battery charge. All worked just fine, so somewhere this is a mismatch between the Vegatouch display and the AGM batteries.


I managed to get in touch with Thor, who pointed me to Firefly to "tap into our system" and revise the battery type setting. Since our Vegatouch is only BlueTooth, not Wifi, I'm not sure how that will work. However, I'll be calling Firefly tomorrow to see if they can assist.


Thanks for your suggestions!

[Judge]

Originally Posted by ShoppingNinja

Yes, we labeled the battery connections before the replacement.


None of the breakers are tripped, including the two in the battery compartment.


We've unplugged from SP and everything works as expected. In fact, when plugged into SP, everything works as expected, other than the display for the Vegatouch.



To test whether the Vegatouch was seeing the new batteries, we unplugged from SP, started the engine with the parking brake engaged, and checked to see that the slides were now unlocked and the awning locked, which is what should happen if the system is registering adequate battery charge. All worked just fine, so somewhere this is a mismatch between the Vegatouch display and the AGM batteries.


I managed to get in touch with Thor, who pointed me to Firefly to "tap into our system" and revise the battery type setting. Since our Vegatouch is only BlueTooth, not Wifi, I'm not sure how that will work. However, I'll be calling Firefly tomorrow to see if they can assist.


Thanks for your suggestions!

First, when on SP everything will work in the 12V system without house batteries (including the FireFly panel) because the Converter supplies 12V. When you are off SP and you still have lights in the coach, the fans still works, the FireFly panel is still on, etc. that does mean your breaker is not tripped and the Use / Store is in the Use position.


Now there is nothing to change in the Firefly system when going from flooded to AGM batteries. I went from flooded to LiFePO4 batteries and didn't have to do anything at all. The house voltage read fine with the LiFePO4’s. I could have paid FireFly to change the voltage range for the AGS to better match LiFePO4 batteries but it was close enough for me.

I looked at the FireFly schematics and there is no separate wire for House Battery Voltage. There only a separate wire for Chassis Battery Voltage. I already knew that because I uncovered that Thor wires 90% of the BIM's backwards and it raises havoc with the proper reading for the house and chassis voltages and it can also cause issues with the slide working properly as a result.

You may actually have an issues with the Display or the FireFly Mainboard.

There could also be a firmware update but I have not seen anyone report a problem like yours.

[ShoppingNinja]

Thanks for your response. We checked the 100 AMP and 50 AMP breakers in the battery compartment and see no indication that one or both have tripped. However, I can't figure out how to do a reset on the 50 AMP breaker? Is that possible? What would indicate that it's tripped?


As far as the operation of the coach is concerned, everything appears to be working correctly on either SP or generator, other than the battery voltage display on the panel. The display on the Xantrax inverter shows the correct battery voltage, as does the display on the solar controller.



I tried to test whether the system is actually seeing the battery by unplugging from SP, starting the engine with the parking brake on, and checking to see if the slides then showed as unlocked. My recollection is that if the house battery is dead, the slides won't unlock to extend or retract them. Since they unlocked correctly and the awning locked, it seems as though the system is finding the battery.


I managed to get to Thor's support department and they told me that Firefly needs to "tap into our system" and change a setting to reflect the battery type. I will call Firefly tomorrow and hopefully that will resolve it.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by ShoppingNinja

Thanks for your response. We checked the 100 AMP and 50 AMP breakers in the battery compartment and see no indication that one or both have tripped. However, I can't figure out how to do a reset on the 50 AMP breaker? Is that possible? What would indicate that it's tripped?


As far as the operation of the coach is concerned, everything appears to be working correctly on either SP or generator, other than the battery voltage display on the panel. The display on the Xantrax inverter shows the correct battery voltage, as does the display on the solar controller.



I tried to test whether the system is actually seeing the battery by unplugging from SP, starting the engine with the parking brake on, and checking to see if the slides then showed as unlocked. My recollection is that if the house battery is dead, the slides won't unlock to extend or retract them. Since they unlocked correctly and the awning locked, it seems as though the system is finding the battery.


I managed to get to Thor's support department and they told me that Firefly needs to "tap into our system" and change a setting to reflect the battery type. I will call Firefly tomorrow and hopefully that will resolve it.

FireFly can’t “tap” into the system remotely. Either your dealer has to with the proper software and interface tool. If you are out of warranty, FireFly will send you the equipment for a fee and then you return it to them.

But…. again…. this is not a configuration issues. The house battery voltage reading works regardless of the battery type.

This is what the 50A breaker looks like. The button could be red or yellow. If you press it, a yellow or red “flag” will pop out indicating the breaker is tripped. Then you push the flag back in to reset it.

It is worth talking to FireFly Support. They will walk you through some troubleshooting steps.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Judge

FireFly can’t “tap” into the system remotely. Either your dealer has to with the proper software and tools. If you are out of warranty, FireFly will send you the equipment for a fee and then you return it to them.

But…. again…. this is not a configuration issues. The house battery voltage reading works regardless of the battery type.

This is what the 50A breaker looks like. The button could be red or yellow. If you press it, a yellow or red “flag” will pop out indicating the breaker is tripped. Then you push the flag back in to reset it.

It is worth talking to FireFly Support. They will walk you through some troubleshooting steps.

Attachment 41189

Well, except Thor has been known to install the 50 amp breakers with "push to test" button. He may have one of those. But his indications point to that breaker being not tripped.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Well, except Thor has been known to install the 50 amp breakers with "push to test" button. He may have one of those. But his indications point to that breaker being not tripped.

Yes….. but he asked how to tell if the breaker was tripped. This is the 50A they had been using on the Omni / Magnitude for power back to the Converter and FireFly Panel so I was trying to explain how to check the breaker for future reference.

Given his testing I still think he could have an issue with the Display or Mainboard. I’m leaning towards the Mainboard but it could be a bad / loose wire giving the Input Error.

[ShoppingNinja]

Thanks so much for the additional info. I agree that there's no way for Firefly to "tap into our system" since it's BlueTooth, not WiFi. Interesting about sending me the equipment to flash the firmware. I'd be glad to do that if it resolves the situation.


I thought I'd see a flag at the bottom of the breaker if it was tripped. I'm not seeing that, but I'll take another look.


Sigh. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. :-)

[Judge]

Originally Posted by ShoppingNinja

Thanks so much for the additional info. I agree that there's no way for Firefly to "tap into our system" since it's BlueTooth, not WiFi. Interesting about sending me the equipment to flash the firmware. I'd be glad to do that if it resolves the situation.


I thought I'd see a flag at the bottom of the breaker if it was tripped. I'm not seeing that, but I'll take another look.


Sigh. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. :-)

As Ted indicated, it is possible your breaker only has a button. The one on my Magnitude does have the flag but you can never trust Thor to be consistent.

You can try just pressing the button but if you were able to operate the slide, then that is not the issue is power from the house batteries power the slide.

However.... if Thor wired your BIM backwards (and just about everyone Omni / Magnitude owner I have spoken with had it wired incorrectly), that can report the voltages erroneously.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Judge

As Ted indicated, it is possible your breaker only has a button. The one on my Magnitude does have the flag but you can never trust Thor to be consistent.

You can try just pressing the button but if you were able to operate the slide, then that is not the issue is power from the house batteries power the slide.

However.... if Thor wired your BIM backwards (and just about everyone Omni / Magnitude owner I have spoken with had it wired incorrectly), that can report the voltages erroneously.

The half-axxed breakers have the flag, not the "push to test" button. But as indicated earlier, if all DC systems work as normal when not connected to SP, the 50 amp breaker is not tripped.

I agree his has a problem with the LED indication panel, especially since it has a "general fault" indicator. Probably just incidental it showed up when the batteries were changed because the OP seemed to have a good handle on the battery swap.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

The half-axxed breakers have the flag, not the "push to test" button.

You are confusing me..... but that isn't a difficult task at times.


The breaker I posed has the flag and the test button that trip the breaker and pops the flag out (per the two arrows). I have those on my coach.

Unless you are talking about the breakers with only a button and no flag like this second picture. But they are marine breakers and I have not seen them on the two Thor's I have owned.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Judge

You are confusing me..... but that isn't a difficult task at times.


The breaker I posed has the flag and the test button that trip the breaker and pops the flag out (per the two arrows). I have those on my coach.

Unless you are talking about the breakers with only a button and no flag like this second picture. But they are marine breakers and I have not seen them on the two Thor's I have owned.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Never had that one on mybold Outlaw or my Magntiude. That is a stupid = cheap design.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Judge

Never had that one on mybold Outlaw or my Magntiude. That is a stupid = cheap design.

I agree. I had one on my ACE - swapped it out for a better breaker with the button and flag years ago. Hence, the "half-axxed" description.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Judge

As Ted indicated, it is possible your breaker only has a button. The one on my Magnitude does have the flag but you can never trust Thor to be consistent.

You can try just pressing the button but if you were able to operate the slide, then that is not the issue is power from the house batteries power the slide.

However.... if Thor wired your BIM backwards (and just about everyone Omni / Magnitude owner I have spoken with had it wired incorrectly), that can report the voltages erroneously.

My coach's 50 amp CB has a flag but no press-to-trip button. I use a 14 AWG jumper wire to short the output of the CB to check to see if the CB will trip. The flag is yellow but hidden when set.

[ShoppingNinja]

Jumping back in here, our 50AMP breaker has a flag, but no "push to test" button. :-(


However, the flag isn't tripped and everything other than the Firefly HSE battery voltage display appears to be working normally.


I spoke with Firefly this morning. They were amused that Thor told me they could "tap into" our Bluetooth system. They are currently researching whether there is a problem with supporting AGM batteries, but I know we're certainly not the only people who have installed those.



We may disconnect the batteries and reconnect them again, just as a long shot.