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Old 11-09-2022, 04:00 AM   #21
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THOR #21936
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Originally Posted by LarryD View Post
how about off the front? https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...18922e0500a49a

Judge, think that'd fit under our bumper?
I have the same front bumper as you and Judge - the install plates are recessed in the frame rails and wouldn't work with that hitch.

You could definitely get a shop to fabricate on a front hitch for only a bit more than that - and that's a way better option than having both on the rear. The motorcycle will sit lower too, which is much better for loading.

With that in mind - the rate on the front factory springs on the Magnitude are too low even without adding the new bumper. You absolutely MUST update your springs or your handling is going to get worse - specifically you'll sway a lot more. I installed DAYTON 350-1214HD CargoMaxx HD coils, it brought the rig back to level from stock and handles much more solidly than factory.

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Old 11-09-2022, 04:10 AM   #22
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THOR #21936
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Actually, the further behind the rear axle the pivot point is for the trailer/TOAD, the better it tracks in the footprint of the MH.
No no no that's absolutely not true. You want the pivot point as close to the rear axle as possible for stability and articulation. That's why semis and 5ths are so stable.

The further back your articulation is, the more "twitchy" the trailer is, and the more you'll get bounced around by the trailer laterally. That's not to be confused with trailer tongue length. A long tongue is a good thing!

Think about how hard it would be to back up a trailer on a long hitch extension with a pickup. Now consider how easy it is to back a trailer with a long tongue with the ball bumper mounted... It's night and day. Our RVs are like giant pickups with a house acting as a giant hitch extension.

Bottom line: You want the articulation close with a long tongue for max stability and best tracking with minimal sway.
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Old 11-09-2022, 10:56 PM   #23
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THOR #7035
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
No no no that's absolutely not true. You want the pivot point as close to the rear axle as possible for stability and articulation. That's why semis and 5ths are so stable.

The further back your articulation is, the more "twitchy" the trailer is, and the more you'll get bounced around by the trailer laterally. That's not to be confused with trailer tongue length. A long tongue is a good thing!

Think about how hard it would be to back up a trailer on a long hitch extension with a pickup. Now consider how easy it is to back a trailer with a long tongue with the ball bumper mounted... It's night and day. Our RVs are like giant pickups with a house acting as a giant hitch extension.

Bottom line: You want the articulation close with a long tongue for max stability and best tracking with minimal sway.
The discussion is about turning radius and trailer tracking, not stability. What I said was absolutely true.



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Originally Posted by LarryD View Post
I dont think I'm really understanding your concern. Your saying that because the boat trailer will be ~4ft further back that the turning radius will be huge. I dont have experience to speak to this and cant relate. I've towed plenty but never in this manner. Sounds like something I'll have to be very careful about until I understand it better. The roads I travel generally all accommodate 18 wheelers with double trailers so I have to believe its possible. I know hydralift, cruiserlift and mighty hauler all make carriers specifically for this, just wondering if anyones got any experience doing it.
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Actually, the further behind the rear axle the pivot point is for the trailer/TOAD, the better it tracks in the footprint of the MH.
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Old 11-10-2022, 01:13 AM   #24
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THOR #20809
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I have the same front bumper as you and Judge - the install plates are recessed in the frame rails and wouldn't work with that hitch.

You could definitely get a shop to fabricate on a front hitch for only a bit more than that - and that's a way better option than having both on the rear. The motorcycle will sit lower too, which is much better for loading.

With that in mind - the rate on the front factory springs on the Magnitude are too low even without adding the new bumper. You absolutely MUST update your springs or your handling is going to get worse - specifically you'll sway a lot more. I installed DAYTON 350-1214HD CargoMaxx HD coils, it brought the rig back to level from stock and handles much more solidly than factory.
this is great advice, thank you and everyone for it. I'll start exploring what options I have wrt having a front hitch made, will take a while but I'll report back if I make any progress.
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Old 11-10-2022, 02:21 AM   #25
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Zenith I found this: https://www.etrailer.com/fmr-2021_Fo...d35&Redirect=8

looks pretty good no? sits low(er), 1000lbs vert load rating.... I think I'm going to give it a shot.
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Old 11-10-2022, 05:20 AM   #26
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THOR #21936
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
The discussion is about turning radius and trailer tracking, not stability. What I said was absolutely true.
I think you're getting trailer tongue versus hitch extension confused. When you say "the further behind the rear axle the pivot point is for the trailer/TOAD, the better" - you're talking about a hitch extension.



Longer tongue = very good
Longer hitch = bad to very bad


Facts:

A sufficiently long hitch will "wag" your tow rig and could cause you to get stuck in a harmonic resonance with the trailer, causing a loss of steering, running you off the road, or worst flipping you.


Any sort of hitch extension reduces your departure angle.



Any hitch extension reduces your effective tongue weight capacity (as Gritz pointed out) and effectively increases your tongue weight. This is not simple - it can be multiplicative because the force is on a lever not directly on the hitch (as the hitch is designed to be used).



Any hitch extension makes it more difficult to back up.



Any hitch extension moves the tracking of the axle of the trailer towards the outside of the tow vehicle. A longer tongue length accomplishes the same thing but makes the trailer more stable and can even decrease the weight on the hitch.






How are you getting that a longer hitch extension / a pivot point further behind the rear axle helps turning radius? I guess it means you're less likely to jacknife? I can't really see any other advantage, and see tons of disadvantages.



I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to understand. I tow a LOT and if I could be doing something better I'd like to know.
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Old 11-10-2022, 05:22 AM   #27
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THOR #21936
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Originally Posted by LarryD View Post
Zenith I found this: https://www.etrailer.com/fmr-2021_Fo...d35&Redirect=8

looks pretty good no? sits low(er), 1000lbs vert load rating.... I think I'm going to give it a shot.
Nice! I think that'll work.

You'll have to chop a square hole for the receiver below the big gap for the light bar of course, but it's got tons of weight capacity. I remember the bumper uses 4 bolts per side - you may have to get longer bolts or add holes to the hitch, but that definitely looks like the optimal solution!


A square hole that size is tough... It's too small to use an angle grinder for, but way too big for a dremel. I think I'd measure and drill 4 holes then join them using a jigsaw with a metal blade, going real slow not to melt the blade.
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Old 11-10-2022, 01:46 PM   #28
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THOR #7035
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
Actually, the further behind the rear axle the pivot point is for the trailer/TOAD, the better it tracks in the footprint of the MH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I think you're getting trailer tongue versus hitch extension confused. When you say "the further behind the rear axle the pivot point is for the trailer/TOAD, the better" - you're talking about a hitch extension.



Longer tongue = very good
Longer hitch = bad to very bad


Facts:

A sufficiently long hitch will "wag" your tow rig and could cause you to get stuck in a harmonic resonance with the trailer, causing a loss of steering, running you off the road, or worst flipping you.


Any sort of hitch extension reduces your departure angle.



Any hitch extension reduces your effective tongue weight capacity (as Gritz pointed out) and effectively increases your tongue weight. This is not simple - it can be multiplicative because the force is on a lever not directly on the hitch (as the hitch is designed to be used).



Any hitch extension makes it more difficult to back up.



Any hitch extension moves the tracking of the axle of the trailer towards the outside of the tow vehicle. A longer tongue length accomplishes the same thing but makes the trailer more stable and can even decrease the weight on the hitch.






How are you getting that a longer hitch extension / a pivot point further behind the rear axle helps turning radius? I guess it means you're less likely to jacknife? I can't really see any other advantage, and see tons of disadvantages.



I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to understand. I tow a LOT and if I could be doing something better I'd like to know.
No, I'm talking about simple physics. It doesn't matter how the ball gets behind the axle, be it an RV with a frame extension and consequently long overhang, or someone putting a 6 foot extension into the hitch, That trailer will swing much wider around a corner than one being pulled with the pivot point right on or near the axle, thereby minimizing the chance that trailer axle will cut the corner and hit the curb or power pole on the corner because you didn't swing the towing vehicle wide enough around the corner.
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