2023 Thor Four Winds Class C

[kzaplicki]

Hello all. Decided to make this post to warn anyone thinking of buying a Thor motorcoach in the future (to be honest, a warning is probably needed for all manufacturers).

Back in June 2022, my husband and I decided to purchase a brand new 2023 Thor Four Winds Class C. We loved the layout (everything except the bathroom) and figured it would best meet our needs at the time. We went through an extensive inspection and weren't immediately alarmed by any issues.

Upon returning home and embarking on our first camping journey, we discovered that the roof was starting to bubble. Turns out it was never glued down correctly and needed to be replaced.

The dealer that we purchased the camper from didn't want to do the work and encouraged us to get the work done at the manufacturer. At this time, we had a growing list of issues and decided to make an appointment in Indiana. Only major complaint at the time is that we live 900 miles away and they didn't offer any assistance to get the coach there (my husband had to take time off work and pay for the entire trip himself).

At first, I didn't have any complaints about the work that the service department did. However, after returning from Indiana, there was a rainstorm and we noticed water leaking from the rear window into the camper. To fix the roof, they had to remove the awning and LED light strip. Turns out that they used 40 screws (why the heck is that necessary?) to put in the LED awning light and hadn't used any thread sealer or butyl tape when putting it back on. Since there is no gutter on this camper, the water would just sit on the LED light strip and find a way to get through. Husband fixed.

Everyone knows that one of the biggest issues in camper is leaking water. Throughout our one year of ownership, every single one of the fittings inside of the camper has leaked. First our kitchen sink, then the shower, then the outside shower, then finally the bathroom sink. We tighten them and they still leak. We never hook up the water to city because we want to hear if the water pump is going off when not in use. We are constantly paranoid that something is leaking. We plan on upgrading all of the plumbing fittings to avoid further issues.

Now the grey tank has a huge leak, to the point that we can't use the camper. We tried calling dealers in the area and no one could get us in timely (all 5 months out). Thor wouldn't help us at all (no surprise). Thor wanted us to drive the camper there again, and couldn't do the work until August. We luckily were able to find a place a few hours away and hope to hear back soon.

I should mention that we have found over 50+ screws just sitting around under cabinets. We even found 5 under the slide! The screws that hold the cabinets in place (magnets) aren't long enough and are falling out. The shower wall is coming off (after being fixed by Thor). The heater stopped working and the propane regulator failed. Numerous other issues and I expect there to be more.

Last comment on Thor is their BS extended structural and lamination warranty. Starting before the end of year 1, you need to get the camper inspected yearly by a Thor authorized facility. This cost $350+. At the end of the day, I'm sure they wouldn't even cover an issue with the structure or lamination as they would find some excuse to get out of paying for the repair (for example, the customer not doing annual maintenance).

My husband and I understand that campers are going to have issues. It's a house moving down the road. Luckily, we have a lot of experience and can fix a lot of issues on our own. This is the only camper (out of 6 that we have owned) that has had several issues that we are unable to fix on our own. The quality is absolute s***. I will never buy another camper again because of this experience. Would rather build my own at this point. None of the manufacturers are doing anything about the quality issues. The consumer is just stuck with a crappy product (that is VERY expensive) and nothing to do about it except complain!

Where is the quality control? Why aren't camper manufacturers being held accountable?

[Chateau_Nomad]

Where is the quality control? Why aren't camper manufacturers being held accountable?

Answer: Because people keep buying them in spite of the QC issues.

[16ACE27]

You signed up just to create that long post about your MH issues? Join the vocal gang with similar issues.

I'll stay in the quiet gang with few and minor issues.

Unfortunately, the people that join your gang won't see your post (or others like it) until after they've accepted their purchase with issues both known and unknown, so they won't benefit from reading it, but they'll commiserate with you.

Welcome to the Forum. Hopefully we'll help you resolve and get past your issues.

[tspeck]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

You signed up just to create that long post about your MH issues? Join the vocal gang with similar issues.



I'll stay in the quiet gang with few and minor issues.



Unfortunately, the people that join your gang won't see your post (or others like it) until after they've accepted their purchase with issues both known and unknown, so they won't benefit from reading it, but they'll commiserate with you.



Welcome to the Forum. Hopefully we'll help you resolve and get past your issues.

These must be built by american drug addicts. Nothing straight. Lol

[BiggJim57]

Sorry you are having problems. It truly sounds as if you did no delivery inspection and little research before jumping into purchasing a RV of ANY manufacturer. The IRV2 forums and the Thor Forums are loaded with people providing sound advice on purchasing a RV, not to mention the numerous YouTube videos on the subject.

[kzaplicki]

All I’m saying is that they are lacking quality control. We did do an inspection. The issues have all surfaced after we purchased.

Update on grey tank - the floor has collapsed onto the frame, cracking the tank. The water now gushes out. Nobody wants to do this job and we will need to take to Thor….for the second time.

[Judge]

Don’t let everyone beat you up.

I did a a PDI for a couple hours and while some minor stuff was uncovered, the major stuff happened in the subsequent months of using the coach… exposing Thor’s lack of quality and workmanship.

I’m on my second Thor Motorcoach and it will be my last. I’m coming up on four years with my Magnitude SV34. I have spent thousands of dollars and months of my own time fixing / upgrading things that the factory screwed up.

And I have had it to the Thor Factory Service Center twice…. only to end up having to deal with two major issues myself. My coach is pretty solid at this point. I’m on my way to Alaska so we’ll see if it holds up.

[rtaggio]

We are very thankful that we have not had or experienced some of the horror stories I've read on this and the IRV2 site.
Our 2021 Thor class C is now at 73,000 miles, been to all but MN, WI, MI, IA,IL, IN, and Alaska. We are in BC now planning on the summer in AK before returning home.
While we have had a few issues in the couple of years, all were fixed, repaired, or upgraded by myself and YouTube. Outside of oil changes and windshield shops, the first time its been in a "shop" was a few weeks ago a ford dealer did routine service and took care of recalled items, also got the "Service Advance Trac" update to the ABS.
The few of the items I had trouble with weren't made by Thor so I can only blame them for using the cheapest POS that would work, but hey I bought an "entry level" model with no slides.
I agree quality could and should be better, but overall I am very satisfied with our MH.

[atreis]

Seems to me their QC is lacking and quality is all over the board. Mine has been quite good. It's really luck of the draw, it seems.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by atreis

Seems to me their QC is lacking and quality is all over the board. Mine has been quite good. It's really luck of the draw, it seems.

I agree. Our 2020 is a pre-covid build. Most of our quality issues were limited to stripped/missing screws, a fried camera harness, etc. but nothing really major.

[ducksface]

A few things;

If you didn't find this forum prior to purchase it means you didn't even bother to type
Thor RV
Into a search engine.

Sell it. A loss is worth far less than
'Gone'
Is worth.

Oddly,
My RV was taken into a local shop the very day I inquired about a repair. They had zero experience with my extended warranty company and gave it all a shot anyway. I have a really good attitude, a bit of knowledge as help and I present well.

Mobile repair companies are EASILY preauthorized by Thor to work on your unit.

YOU inspected prior to delivery so as not to spend .001% of purchase price on an expert to inspect?

Sell it. Be happy.
Unless you insist on being unhappy.
(And when you sell it do a full disclosure walk around)

Would hiring transport been less expensive/convenient than a week off of work?

How many problems did you have before you found this site?

Tough talk for a tough situation.

[Sullyd59]

Originally Posted by ducksface

A few things;

If you didn't find this forum prior to purchase it means you didn't even bother to type
Thor RV
Into a search engine.

Sell it. A loss is worth far less than
'Gone'
Is worth.

Oddly,
My RV was taken into a local shop the very day I inquired about a repair. They had zero experience with my extended warranty company and gave it all a shot anyway. I have a really good attitude, a bit of knowledge as help and I present well.

Mobile repair companies are EASILY preauthorized by Thor to work on your unit.

YOU inspected prior to delivery so as not to spend .001% of purchase price on an expert to inspect?

Sell it. Be happy.
Unless you insist on being unhappy.
(And when you sell it do a full disclosure walk around)

Would hiring transport been less expensive/convenient than a week off of work?

How many problems did you have before you found this site?

Tough talk for a tough situation.

Considering it.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

Where is the quality control? Why aren't camper manufacturers being held accountable?

Answer: Because people keep buying them in spite of the QC issues.

Agree. Given a choice at a given cost, I think most buyers prefer “more” content, size and features than they do simplicity, reliability, and durability. It’s really that simple in US. I see it all the time at major RV shows where the vast majority of people are 100% focused on size, space, colors, textures, etc. and essentially don’t seem to care at all on how the RV is built, how well it will likely hold up, whether they can troubleshoot issues themselves, cost of repairs after short warranty period, etc.

Some participants on this forum forget the average person is not that technical, or that they don’t understand how RVs function at detail level enough to troubleshoot problems. As example, a loose wire or bad switch can cause all kinds of problems and that’s more than typical camper can find and fix.

From my perspective, quality issues come about largely because of poor design and build choices; but in fairness to manufacturers, much of it is due to buying choices in a highly competitive environment.

I hate to say it again because I’m generally against government involvement, but without stricter regulations and enforcement (which would undoubtedly drive costs higher), the RV industry will continue to have major quality issues, particularly at the entry level price point for a given RV category.

[ducksface]

participants on this forum forget the average person is not that technical, or that they don’t understand how RVs function at detail level enough to troubleshoot problem.


Thor RV
Six whole letters typed into Google.

Prior to purchase they didn't bother to spend the whopping three minutes to read that RV is a new hobby, not a new Honda.

If they did do research then blind-bought and bitched;
hey. It's your kid, he robbed the liquor store, but somehow it's the jury's fault.


Average means mediocre.
The mediocre buyer complains of the mediocre build quality.

Who'd a thunk it?

If you can't educate yourself in advance what part of responsibility should you accept?

Do they accept
Too stupid
Too lazy
Too impulsive
Too gullible
Too irresponsible
Too mediocre
Too capable so I'll excellently handle MY end and the BUILDERS mediocre end because, hey, I committed.

They have to pick one, or all, or progress from one to the last. But it's now a YOU thing, not a THOR thing.

They can't be mediocre without accepting mediocrity.

I fully well knew the shortcomings of my Thor when I bought it. I fully well have taken the poorly built kit(something I realized with less than five minutes into my
'Thor rv' Google search)...and.made.it.mine.

If you believed any promise not in print and signed, what should we think?
If you signed and want to not stick to it, what should we think?
If your attitude has alienated every dealer in your area, what should we think?
When you come here only to expound on your failures and cannot offer a solution to anyone ever, what should we think?

Deep breath...you own it or sell it, there's no in between.
Be profound and succinct in your questions.
Watch the 10 of us here who commit to help...help.

Some people aren't happy unless they aren't happy.
Comply to the situation you created.
Let us help you be happy.
Or just stop justifying what you don't know and why that's the best you can be.

[The Gritz Carlton]

Originally Posted by Chance

Agree. Given a choice at a given cost, I think most buyers prefer “more” content, size and features than they do simplicity, reliability, and durability. It’s really that simple in US. I see it all the time at major RV shows where the vast majority of people are 100% focused on size, space, colors, textures, etc. and essentially don’t seem to care at all on how the RV is built, how well it will likely hold up, whether they can troubleshoot issues themselves, cost of repairs after short warranty period, etc.

Some participants on this forum forget the average person is not that technical, or that they don’t understand how RVs function at detail level enough to troubleshoot problems. As example, a loose wire or bad switch can cause all kinds of problems and that’s more than typical camper can find and fix.

From my perspective, quality issues come about largely because of poor design and build choices; but in fairness to manufacturers, much of it is due to buying choices in a highly competitive environment.

I hate to say it again because I’m generally against government involvement, but without stricter regulations and enforcement (which would undoubtedly drive costs higher), the RV industry will continue to have major quality issues, particularly at the entry level price point for a given RV category.

This pretty much sums it up. Your first coach is your learning experience. Our previous Chateau 35SF was beautiful...every feature was in the right place and the attention to esthetics was amazing. Over the 3 years I was forced to crawl and probe into the hidden disasters of build quality....not design. I spent over a year researching our next coach...more on reviews by brand and actual quality of how it was put together. Made the call to trade, which included the elimination of most features that caused the most problems. Slides were #1 on the list. Access to things behind the walls and under the floors was #2 and overall assembly techniques (fasteners and support structures) was #3. We chose our current SOB based on super qualified experience and we love it. Zero issues with anything except the Firefly system which is generic across many brands. While there are many good manufacturers out here, we chose Jayco...Melbourne Prestige 25NP on the Sprinter 3500 premium chassis.

Life is short...fix it and love it or fix it and trade it or fix it and sell it. I stood on the soapbox for Thor one time too many. They are huge, have the poorest build quality and they know it. They build the prettiest pigs with the brightest lipstick of anyone. Their volume of sales, mostly by unsuspected buyers, will keep them in business. People see themselves "in it" and never look "at it" close enough before purchase. Hindsight is 20/20.

Ironically, we got our original purchased price in 2018 back in 2023 on trade value and the sales price on our new one was at 29% off MSRP. I think those days are over. It still sits on the sales lot at a reduced price significantly lower than what they put into it. Not only do we make purchase mistakes...dealers do as well.

So sorry to hear of your disasters. If the RV industry was overseen as well as the automotive and boating industry, things would be different.

Buyer Beware. Make something happen.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Today I'm working on installing a ShowerMiser recirculation system. To really understand the haste and somewhat careless construction techniques, one only needs to "look behind the scenes"... behind cabinets, walls etc.

Rarely is cable loom used. Rather than cut excess wiring or propane lines, the slack excess is just wrapped around framing members or intertwined with Pex tubing.

Probably the most important is how the HVAC ducting is routed. There's several feet of excess just coiled behind the lower kitchen area.

While I'm at it... the access panel under the shower pan is too small... it would have been a simple matter to relocate the framing supports and make that trap door half again as large - and MUCH more workable.

The other pain point is why not install a simple access door in the bedroom TV recess to get to the plumbing AND black tank vacuum breaker installed there? As often as those fail it's just common sense.

ALL the things I mentioned are NOT expensive labor intensive factory functions. Neatness is a HABIT, and should be built into the construction process. I've been in a production environment all my working life and seen absolute sloppy pigs making a mess... and I've seen very efficient neat and QUICK workers doing the SAME functions... for the SAME PAY. So I KNOW it doesn't cost more to do a job correctly.

Bottom line is that QUALITY WORK doesn't NEED to cost more... to a point. The problem seems to be lack of oversight, supervision and basic training in assembly processes. The decision seems to be focus on superficial items to make it look pretty, then get it out the door.

[ducksface]

There comes a point where you're just glad 75% of your workforce showed up on any given day.

Most of you told little Johnny
'You can be anything you want to be'.
Because Johnny can't be a giraffe or a submarine commander,
grown-up Transient Johnny is nothing...and we can't expect his nothingness to show up on a job let alone be qualifiable to run that staple gun.

Those ridiculously long wires?
Thor hasn't had to tear down a wall or stop for a re-fish in years.
Johnny cuts one too short or does the routing wrong...off the line the WHOLE RV comes.
Easier to leave them long and incur the added expense than to train Transient Johnny.


All generations.
Mine?
I had to constantly hear their giant aspirations of somehow getting on SS disability. There only plan/goal in life. Every one of us know a few of these folk from every generation.

You all know someone with a Johnny, or you have a Johnny in your basement, and someone knows you.

Punchline:
Nomad has taken control of the situation he is in.

To everyone else;
Do that.

(My dad told me, as did every adult I ever met when I was a kid;
Here's a shovel
Get in that ditch
Find a way out by being better
Or you'll be in some sort of ditch on some sort of shovel all your life.
There was none of this
You can be anything you want to be
crap.)

Get your cloud shadow off of my lawn!
Damn clouds....

[Chance]

Originally Posted by The Gritz Carlton

….cut….

Life is short...fix it and love it or fix it and trade it or fix it and sell it. I stood on the soapbox for Thor one time too many. They are huge, have the poorest build quality and they know it. They build the prettiest pigs with the brightest lipstick of anyone. Their volume of sales, mostly by unsuspected buyers, will keep them in business. People see themselves "in it" and never look "at it" close enough before purchase. Hindsight is 20/20.

…..cut…..

It’s not just Thor, other manufacturers make questionable decisions also. Granted, if anyone does research, they can easily determine that statistically slides cause a lot of major issues, so they can make a conscious decision on how much risk they are willing to take for the added space. However, other design decisions are not as obvious and therefore not as easy to fully grasp.

For example, I found a Class B van I really like in most ways, but for some reason the manufacturer (not Thor) placed the black tank inside the van, yet the grey is located under the van’s floor. Because of this (I assume), each tank has its own dump connection. When dumping black, you can’t quickly rinse hose with grey. They do include a black tank rinse, but entire design would essentially require rinsing black tank every time it’s dumped, or else risk making a huge mess with hose.

I could live with inconvenience of having to flush black tank every time it’s dumped, but the “remote” possibility that a black tank or toilet leak inside van could ruin the floor and lower cabinets requiring to gut out much of interior to fix, and also remove smell, is where I draw the line. It may never leak at all, but I’m not willing to risk it.

I know a cassette toilet or porta potti inside a van could also leak, but magnitude of damage from a tank inside hidden out of sight seems far worse. Besides, a cassette toilet would likely leak to outside anyway, and a porta potti can be easily protected from causing damage.

[ducksface]

Chance's post says;

I considered
I speculated
I knew
I didn't know
Now I know
I weighed
I considered
I speculated
I totaled it all up
NOW I know
I didn't buy it.

Those who bought that now flooded RV are somewhere on some site saying how unfair life is to them.

[Chance]

Some manufacturers are finally starting to realize that RVs have become too complex, too expensive to buy, and too expensive to maintain/own for a large percentage of population. RVs today have more things that can go wrong than ever before.

Once basics of shelter are covered (bed, bathroom, kitchen, A/C and heat), how much added “value” do we really get from all the luxury add-ons, and at what cost? Part of problem is that added features improve manufacturers’ and dealers’ profitability, so they have an incentive to add options many campers don’t need, want, or should own if they were honest with themselves.

In recent years there has been a downsizing trend, and perhaps de-contenting is next. Keep It Simple Stupid may be the next wave.